Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Question for Christians
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #388389 is a reply to message #388388] |
Thu, 28 May 2009 20:14   |
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cheesesoda
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| AADude7 wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 23:09 |
| Altzan wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 18:39 |
You should actually try to start this religion and spread it. I'd like to see how far it goes 
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Considering how many people actually believe in religions, I'm guessing it would go far (if you create a nice plot, of course.)
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It doesn't even have to be a "nice plot" or even convincing. It just needs to be appealing. Also, you have to start with children. I mean, just look at how many kids were hooked into Pokemon, Neo Pets, Harry Potter, and now the Twilight books. None of them are "good" plots by any means, yet wildly popular. Again, the secret: kids.
whoa.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #388392 is a reply to message #388389] |
Thu, 28 May 2009 21:13 |
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nikki6ixx
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| cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 22:14 |
I mean, just look at how many kids were hooked into Pokemon
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The first couple video games were pretty awesome though.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #388399 is a reply to message #388292] |
Thu, 28 May 2009 23:43 |
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Spoony
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The Bible doesn't contradict itself? Have you even properly read it? For starters, the gospels disagree on almost every major event in Jesus' life.
by the way, if you and jnz could take a minute from arguing over which colour the tooth fairy's shoes are, answer these two questions.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 10:40 |
The Emperor Hirohito was the physical incarnation of a god.
Kim Jong-Il and Kim Il-Sung are two incarnations of the same divine being, descended from heaven.
Frozen yoghurt can make a man invisible.
Do you believe these claims? If not, why not?
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| Spoony wrote |
do you suppose yourself to be a Christian? if so, answer the question i asked earlier. why aren't you a Muslim instead, since that revelation claims to come from the same god.
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^
| altzan wrote |
You should actually try to start this religion and spread it. I'd like to see how far it goes
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It's already doing better than Islam. The Prophet Muhammed initially tried to spread his religion by means of non-violent preaching, and after a decade or so of that, hardly anyone gave a shit (certainly fewer than the number of people who, when asked their religion, say the unicorn religion). It was only once he changed his tactics and decided force would work better that Islam had any real followers, and the unicorn religion hasn't sunk to that level. Nor does it have a record of brainwashing children, for example, without which Christianity would be drastically less popular today. in this very thread you have a shining example of a person who's been literally brainwashed, and finally - after a great deal of strife - reached a level of intellectual freedom he didn't know existed before. and this is not in north korea or saudi arabia... this is in america.
As for "we can all freely make a choice on what we believe"... what an odd definition of "freely" you seem to have. if you've been lied to by your education and/or your parents, it's not informed... and if you're threatened with horrific punishments for making the wrong choice, it's not 'free'.
presumably you don't have a problem with the likes of Stalin, who would kill you simply for disagreeing with him? that is, after all, a more lenient punishment than the one you've alluded to, without a hint of defensiveness or regret.
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[Updated on: Fri, 29 May 2009 16:02] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #388435 is a reply to message #388401] |
Fri, 29 May 2009 04:49 |
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Starbuzzz
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
ljbh... you must feel better saying that, right?
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I don't feel like a hero or anything! but very very relieved to get that off my mind.
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
i've a question... that stuff you PM'd me about earlier and told me to keep quiet about (I have done so) - am I the only person you said that stuff to until now?
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Thanks for keeping that private; I appreciate it. I had not revealed it to anyone else; the stuff I told you were not discussed. I only had to say most of it here because without all my personal experiences and history, I felt it would be kinda empty.
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
Yes, I know this stuff really happens, and I am fortunate to have parents who have always let me make my own mind up religion-wise. I actually thanked them for this exact thing a few months back.
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I wish I had parents like that.
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
Perhaps you're now beginning to understand why I involve myself in these debates. I don't wanna ridicule people's religious ideas just to make them look stupid or because it's funny (although it sometimes is) - this is a moral point. Freedom of belief is a basic human right. And I define freedom of belief as the following: "everyone's allowed to make their own completely free, completely informed choice of belief, or non-belief". We simply do not have this, and I firmly believe we ought to... hence trying to raise awareness, for the sake of people like you.
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The main problem is that the chances of such discussion occuring in real life are slim to none. Not many people want to sit and talk and discuss this stuff. Unless they themselves are trying to raise awareness, of course but running into those people are rare.
On the web, it is more straight forward. And I think you not retorting to petty insults and staying on-topic makes what you are saying have more credibility.
In the end, if an idea is pointed out to be wrong and there is no need to follow it, then it makes sense not to follow it.
It's like jumping off a ship into the sea because you realize that contrary to what people on the ship are saying, you find out the ship's going nowhere. And so there is no need to stay onboard.
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
| Starbuck wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 22:19 |
For the first time in my life, I feel like a massive weight has been lifted off my mind. Like as if somebody just erased everything from a board. I have a fresh slate to work on. Damn it's a good feeling to not be a slave. I feel like I don't belong to any group and that is tremendously satisfying to me.
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i am genuinely, genuinely happy to hear this.
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There's no going back now.
[Updated on: Fri, 29 May 2009 04:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #388438 is a reply to message #388435] |
Fri, 29 May 2009 06:08 |
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Spoony
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| Starbuck wrote on Fri, 29 May 2009 13:49 |
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 27 May 2009 23:43 |
Yes, I know this stuff really happens, and I am fortunate to have parents who have always let me make my own mind up religion-wise. I actually thanked them for this exact thing a few months back.
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I wish I had parents like that.
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the reason my father took that attitude is precisely because his parents were much like yours; he found it miserable and didn't wanna raise his children the same way.
that's not really true in my mother's case.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #389131 is a reply to message #389074] |
Thu, 04 June 2009 08:37 |
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Dover
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| IAmFenix wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 17:27 |
according to my beliefs.
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It's a shame how those four words can justify any idea, no matter how retarded.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #389157 is a reply to message #389074] |
Thu, 04 June 2009 12:24 |
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cheesesoda
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| IAmFenix wrote on Wed, 03 June 2009 20:27 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 14:24 |
| Quote: |
If Christians believe Jesus died for our "sins" then they should logically believe no one is going to "Hell." If the incredible story must be believed in order to have the necessary effect, then the story thus becomes nothing more than a subtle psychological ploy instead of a debt actually paid. Jesus either died for us or he didn't. The debt was either paid or it wasn't. The rest is nonsense.
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So... answer the question, if Jesus died for our sins, why must we believe that he died for our debt to be paid? If someone paid my debt off, I wouldn't HAVE to acknowledge that the debt was paid for that to be true, right? I mean, this especially being so if I don't even know I HAD a debt to begin with.
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The "our" is for those in an exclusive club called Christianity.
GG anyone outside, according to my beliefs.
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You're just as much of a sinner as the rest of us. Christ's death pays for everyone's sins, present and future from that point. It's what allows people to be Christian.
whoa.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #389907 is a reply to message #389388] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 04:23 |
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Spoony
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i had a feeling it'd stump you.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #389919 is a reply to message #385426] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 07:20 |
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Altzan
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I had a feeling this thread wouldn't die.
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #389927 is a reply to message #388399] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 08:33 |
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Spoony
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I am genuinely interested in hearing your answers to this:
| Spoony wrote on Fri, 29 May 2009 01:43 |
by the way, if you and jnz could take a minute from arguing over which colour the tooth fairy's shoes are, answer these two questions.
| Spoony wrote on Thu, 28 May 2009 10:40 |
The Emperor Hirohito was the physical incarnation of a god.
Kim Jong-Il and Kim Il-Sung are two incarnations of the same divine being, descended from heaven.
Frozen yoghurt can make a man invisible.
Do you believe these claims? If not, why not?
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| Spoony wrote |
do you suppose yourself to be a Christian? if so, answer the question i asked earlier. why aren't you a Muslim instead, since that revelation claims to come from the same god.
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^
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Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390014 is a reply to message #385426] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 16:21 |
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Altzan
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1. No, I do not believe these claims. As you have mentioned, those claims (and mine) are based on faith. It's my choice in what I put my faith into.
2. Muslims have a similar, yet different set of beliefs. I'm not familiar with their entire set, though. I might do some research later to familiarize myself with it.
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390029 is a reply to message #390014] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 17:30 |
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Dover
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| Altzan wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 16:21 |
1. No, I do not believe these claims. As you have mentioned, those claims (and mine) are based on faith. It's my choice in what I put my faith into.
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This begs the question "why?". Those claims are no more ridiculous than those in your bible. Of course it's your choice where you place your faith, but I'm sure this choice is guided by some reason, some logic?
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390035 is a reply to message #390014] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 18:25 |
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Spoony
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| Altzan wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 18:21 |
1. No, I do not believe these claims. As you have mentioned, those claims (and mine) are based on faith. It's my choice in what I put my faith into.
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really?
well...
| Altzan wrote |
The problem is that we live in a day and age where everyone wants hardcore proof before believing anything. It's good to be cautious, but this is one of the things you simply have to apply faith.
| Quote: |
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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I can't really add to Razor's post, but I'll say this: religion is one of the few things that doesn't follow [scientific] logic. If you firmly will not believe something unless there's proof and logic to back it up, you're a hopeless case.
Actually, the people wanting proof are those desperately looking for a reason not to believe something they don't want to believe because they want am easier path.
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your words, not mine. when the Emperor Hirohito or Kim Jong-Il make similar claims to divinity that Jesus made (if he even did), you "simply have to apply faith", and you're a "hopeless case" if you happen to think they're full of shit. it's not their fault for making such ludicrous claims... it's yours for not believing them.
| Altzan wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 18:21 |
2. Muslims have a similar, yet different set of beliefs. I'm not familiar with their entire set, though. I might do some research later to familiarize myself with it.
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you haven't read the qur'an and the hadith? how negligent! they claim to be revelations from the same god you worship, and they came several centuries after the time of Jesus, so hadn't you better check on Yahweh's more recent instructions to you?
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390041 is a reply to message #390035] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 19:28 |
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Altzan
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:25 |
you haven't read the qur'an and the hadith? how negligent! they claim to be revelations from the same god you worship, and they came several centuries after the time of Jesus, so hadn't you better check on Yahweh's more recent instructions to you?
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How about no? His most recent instructions? Don't make me laugh.
| Dover said |
This begs the question "why?". Those claims are no more ridiculous than those in your bible. Of course it's your choice where you place your faith, but I'm sure this choice is guided by some reason, some logic?
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Yes, I don't place my faith here blindly. There are many reasons my faith resides here.
I cannot imagine how the clockwork of the universe can exist without a clockmaker. ~Voltaire
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| Re: Question for Christians [message #390048 is a reply to message #390041] |
Wed, 10 June 2009 19:58 |
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Spoony
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| Altzan wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 21:28 |
| Spoony wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 20:25 |
you haven't read the qur'an and the hadith? how negligent! they claim to be revelations from the same god you worship, and they came several centuries after the time of Jesus, so hadn't you better check on Yahweh's more recent instructions to you?
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How about no? His most recent instructions? Don't make me laugh.
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why not, you're making me laugh.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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