Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Fix outside PTs?
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385214 is a reply to message #385164] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 07:46   |
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cmatt42
Messages: 2057
Registered: July 2004
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General (2 Stars) |
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 04:25 |
can you honestly tell me you're going to play a lot more renegade after this patch is released? if no then maybe you shouldn't talk and you should let the people it will actually affect worry about it
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I plan on playing significantly more than I do now once it's released. I agree with Chuck Norris, 100%. It was unintended, so it's broken. Fix what is broken.
| Ghostshaw wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 06:35 |
There are indeed ways for serevr owners to fix it on their own server, which is why we won't change it.
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This is fine.
I'd require it for the ladder, though.
GunKataGaming.net
[Updated on: Sat, 09 May 2009 07:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385218 is a reply to message #346646] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 08:03 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9743
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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To be honnest: the poll is over, so please stop fighting over this.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385335 is a reply to message #385330] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 23:44 |
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TruYuri
Messages: 97
Registered: June 2008
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 01:05 |
i'm not in school so i'm not going to use punctuation and correct grammar; it makes me feel like a douchebag
cuna would say Have a nice day
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Using punctuation and correct grammar prove that you even went to school and AREN'T a retard douchebag. I suggest you use it, even slightly more often.
[Updated on: Sat, 09 May 2009 23:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385358 is a reply to message #385164] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 02:11 |
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Chuck Norris
Messages: 312
Registered: July 2007
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
the fact is you'd rather sit here and talk about renegade than actually play renegade; you can blame it on the fact that strange things like purchase terminals working outside of buildings keep you from wanting to play but in the end i really don't care in the slightest because this patch will not affect you andi don't care about your opinion on it since you can't even be bothered to play the game
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You sit here and ridicule me for typing out something related to the subject, and here is a whole paragraph doing only two things, acting high and mighty, and belittling me for something irrelevant, as I already said.
1. Come at me with an argument, not a brush aside. You're clearly losing this. I've played the game, and know the situation. I'm giving reasons and backing. You're not.
2. While time will still be a concern, and I doubt I'll play regularly every day for a good deal of time again, I will spend more time on it if this actually does anything that makes the game better.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
it's not a horrible exploit if everyone knows it's there and is able to use it, and like ghostshaw said it accidentally helps out in key places
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Okay, cheats apply to all of that too.
Rather than saying it's good because everyone knows about it (which isn't exactly true), and because it helps, give some reasons, perhaps some regarding, you know, gameplay and balance, since it destroys aspects of them, on why it should be/stay. It wasn't intended to be, and destroys balance, and your argument is "it helps in a few situations". Sure it does, but by awarding an otherwise unwarranted advantage.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
you really just like to hear yourself talk, and this is shown by your ridiculously long posts about a game you don't even play
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I can't help but think you're getting desperate when you attack me, and on something so silly as my writing style.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
purchase terminals working outside of buildings is not a huge problem; it's not even really a problem at all, unless your view is that anything and everything should be fixed and that people should now be forced to play the game in a way that you think it was meant to be released originally as if it's some sort of punishment for playing the game the way they have for the past 7+ years
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Not a problem at all?! Oh, now your ignorance shows. As I said first thing in my previous post, is that it destroys balance! If you don't see this, then you clearly must know a whole lot about a game you've been playing "7+ years", right? Balance is one of Renegade's strengths. If this patch is supposed to help (and perhaps make grow) Renegade, I'm not sure how this is helping. You're trading balance, and in your own words, almost ignoring it (which is scary), for self convenience (laziness and/or unwarranted advantages) and a "it's always been that way" line. Wow, what a reason for it to stay. I wouldn't care so much if it stayed and a good reason was given, but I see none, while I see balance being destroyed, which is a pretty big issue. You're trading balance for convenience, and this is my main point, one that people seem to have an issue identifying.
The wit in this comment is quote ironic and hypocritical. It's obvious to see this wasn't intended, yet you claim I'm the one who just wants it the way I personally want. There's two major sides here, and unfortunately, because it's already in place, even though it's flawed, it'll be left be. Alternate patch or not, what's default is what will ultimately end up being the standard. This is why I'd like to see it default.
The points fix bug was mandatory (which I do agree with), yet it received controversy. The poll results shouldn't have decided this. If they didn't, and the team internally decided this (with no regard to the results), then this thread should never have been made, and the discussion should have just been left to be as it was in the other thread. The poll may be over, and the word may have even been given on what's going to happen as far as it goes, but I see no reason to silence the discussion because of that.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
it's not going to change much, and renelife will go on, but it's an unnecessary hassle
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Get over your laziness of walking to a terminal. That time you save obviously breaks balance, namely, in finding and disarming nukes, but also in doing other things.
It will change things (balance). You just don't care for them because you're ignorant of them.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
can you honestly tell me you're going to play a lot more renegade after this patch is released? if no then maybe you shouldn't talk and you should let the people it will actually affect worry about it
have a nice day chuck norris
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Sorry for caring about it. The fact that I don't play as often yet still want to see things through only shows how much more I care. Stop acting like your opinion is better because you play the game. At least my view is backed up with legitimate reasons. You just keep saying "it doesn't change anything" when it does, "it's a hassle" while that's true, but so is reloading and ammo limits, and "you don't play the game" which is irrelevant, especially when it's overshadowed by the fact that you're losing to me as far as reasons go.
Though, predictably come at me again about my post length or the fact that I don't play the game as your argument if you don't have any.
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385372 is a reply to message #346646] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 05:10 |
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Ghostshaw
Messages: 709
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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This discussion is pointless. It won't be part of the patch (unless someone delivers it, then we might consider making it optional or something) and it won't be mandatory for the ladder. The parts of gameplay it has effect on are minimal enough not to be neccesary for the ladder but too large for us to change it. Moreover this is primarily a leveledit fix and we frankly don't have time to fix all the maps.
BlackIntel Administrator
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385375 is a reply to message #385372] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 06:26 |
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| Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 13:10 |
This discussion is pointless. It won't be part of the patch (unless someone delivers it, then we might consider making it optional or something) and it won't be mandatory for the ladder. The parts of gameplay it has effect on are minimal enough not to be neccesary for the ladder but too large for us to change it. Moreover this is primarily a leveledit fix and we frankly don't have time to fix all the maps.
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Assuming there's a way to hook onto a "PT-USED" event, isn't there a test involving the orientation of the PT and the player to see if the player is behind (and therefore outside of the building) the PT? Just a technical query...
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| halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
| R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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[Updated on: Sun, 10 May 2009 06:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385377 is a reply to message #385375] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 06:39 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
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General (1 Star) |
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| CarrierII wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 09:26 |
| Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 13:10 |
This discussion is pointless. It won't be part of the patch (unless someone delivers it, then we might consider making it optional or something) and it won't be mandatory for the ladder. The parts of gameplay it has effect on are minimal enough not to be neccesary for the ladder but too large for us to change it. Moreover this is primarily a leveledit fix and we frankly don't have time to fix all the maps.
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Assuming there's a way to hook onto a "PT-USED" event, isn't there a test involving the orientation of the PT and the player to see if the player is behind (and therefore outside of the building) the PT? Just a technical query...
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Yes, but the orientation of the PT could be backwards and thus cause the PT to not function.
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385393 is a reply to message #346646] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 09:19 |
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liquidv2
Messages: 3407
Registered: February 2007
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Chuck Norris wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 04:11 |
| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
the fact is you'd rather sit here and talk about renegade than actually play renegade; you can blame it on the fact that strange things like purchase terminals working outside of buildings keep you from wanting to play but in the end i really don't care in the slightest because this patch will not affect you andi don't care about your opinion on it since you can't even be bothered to play the game
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You sit here and ridicule me for typing out something related to the subject, and here is a whole paragraph doing only two things, acting high and mighty, and belittling me for something irrelevant, as I already said.
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In my opinion my opinion matters more than yours on the subject because, like you said, you do not play the game and will probably not play the game in the future. The reasons for you wanting the purchase terminals to not work outside are, to me, nullified by the fact that you do not play. You are one of the many people who would rather type out forum essays about Renegade than actually play Renegade, and that says a lot to me.
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1. Come at me with an argument, not a brush aside. You're clearly losing this. I've played the game, and know the situation. I'm giving reasons and backing. You're not.
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I'm not losing anything, especially if you say I am. All you are saying is that purchase terminals working outside of buildings ruins game balance, but you are not providing examples. I can if need be, but I don't feel I have to explain anything to you since you don't even play the game and the changes that will be applied to it will not be applied to you. In a way I feel you are wasting my time and the time of everyone who will actually be playing Renegade if and when the patch comes out.
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2. While time will still be a concern, and I doubt I'll play regularly every day for a good deal of time again, I will spend more time on it if this actually does anything that makes the game better.| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
it's not a horrible exploit if everyone knows it's there and is able to use it, and like ghostshaw said it accidentally helps out in key places
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Okay, cheats apply to all of that too.
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For some reason people who support everything in the TT patch like to compare everything wrong with the game to cheating. Trying to compare using outside purchase terminals to cheating is you trying to sound smart by saying something incredibly stupid. If in your eyes they are both equally bad for the game then I have nothing to say to you; you are an idiot. I will assume (hope really) that this is not what you mean and that you are not an idiot.
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Rather than saying it's good because everyone knows about it (which isn't exactly true), and because it helps, give some reasons, perhaps some regarding, you know, gameplay and balance, since it destroys aspects of them, on why it should be/stay. It wasn't intended to be, and destroys balance, and your argument is "it helps in a few situations". Sure it does, but by awarding an otherwise unwarranted advantage.
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On the weapons factory you can access a terminal from near the bay; you can also access an outside purchase terminal on the airstrip, so no balance is lost. Neither team can access purchase terminals outside of powerplants or refineries. You can access a purchase terminal outside of the obelisk, but on the AGT you have to take the extra 5 steps into the building. The Hand of Nod has no available outside PTs, but the GDI barracks is accessible from the back. I believe this is the only thing you have going for your argument of outside PTs destroying balance, though on the map Field both teams have a PT close to the tunnel because of it. The maps that help GDI would be non-base defense maps including Islands and Complex (Volcano is small enough that it will not matter). City and City_Flying are not maps that GDI is aided by the PTs on the barracks, and Walls and Walls_Flying have the buildings close enough together that it once again does not greatly help GDI if it helps GDI at all. On Canyon GDI can hide in the barriers behind the barracks and attempt to refill and fire out while the base is under siege, but the space is so limited that there's nowhere to hide from enemy fire and the player will be killed. Like I said previously, if you remove the outside PTs Renelife will still go on, but one thing I would like to point out about Islands and Complex is that Nod tends to win 2 out of 3 times or close to that on each map when the pointmod is applied to a server with players in it, so perhaps awarding GDI that extra little advantage would only help them against their pre-determined uphill battle.
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
you really just like to hear yourself talk, and this is shown by your ridiculously long posts about a game you don't even play
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I can't help but think you're getting desperate when you attack me, and on something so silly as my writing style.
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I'm not desperate in the slightest; I'm merely observing. You are more than welcome to think what you want, though.
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 05:25 |
purchase terminals working outside of buildings is not a huge problem; it's not even really a problem at all, unless your view is that anything and everything should be fixed and that people should now be forced to play the game in a way that you think it was meant to be released originally as if it's some sort of punishment for playing the game the way they have for the past 7+ years
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Not a problem at all?! Oh, now your ignorance shows. As I said first thing in my previous post, is that it destroys balance! If you don't see this, then you clearly must know a whole lot about a game you've been playing "7+ years", right? Balance is one of Renegade's strengths. If this patch is supposed to help (and perhaps make grow) Renegade, I'm not sure how this is helping. You're trading balance, and in your own words, almost ignoring it (which is scary), for self convenience (laziness and/or unwarranted advantages) and a "it's always been that way" line. Wow, what a reason for it to stay. I wouldn't care so much if it stayed and a good reason was given, but I see none, while I see balance being destroyed, which is a pretty big issue. You're trading balance for convenience, and this is my main point, one that people seem to have an issue identifying.
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I did not claim to have played the game for 7+ years. I don't remember back past 2006 but I do remember seeing my stats on some ladder ranking thing somewhere from November of 2005. My wolrank from when the ladder froze is 1081, so in the grand scheme of things I'm newer than the oldschool players but older than most of the current players. I hope you realize that the chance of Renegade growing at this point is slim to none, and that the best chance to keep the game alive would be leaving it the way it was to please the few players who are still left. If too much unwanted change is applied, for whatever reasons, you risk driving players away. This patch could unintentionally be the bucket of water poured on the dying Renegade fire, but people don't seem to understand that. I find it amazing to play Renegade and see how well the game balances itself out, even if it didn't originally intend to. Your argument is that anything and everything should be fixed in the game; I prefer to examine everything and form my own opinion based on what I know and the arguments presented. Having PTs accessible from outside of a building does in my mind not ruin the balance I've observed and played in for years, but my opinion highly differs from yours. To each his own.
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The wit in this comment is quote ironic and hypocritical. It's obvious to see this wasn't intended, yet you claim I'm the one who just wants it the way I personally want. There's two major sides here, and unfortunately, because it's already in place, even though it's flawed, it'll be left be. Alternate patch or not, what's default is what will ultimately end up being the standard. This is why I'd like to see it default.
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Either way Renelife will go on, but I'd rather see it stay in.
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The points fix bug was mandatory (which I do agree with), yet it received controversy. The poll results shouldn't have decided this. If they didn't, and the team internally decided this (with no regard to the results), then this thread should never have been made, and the discussion should have just been left to be as it was in the other thread. The poll may be over, and the word may have even been given on what's going to happen as far as it goes, but I see no reason to silence the discussion because of that.
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The pointmod makes Renegade less fun for a lot of people. You can argue that it's only because they enjoy abusing glitches, but there are other reason for it than that. I disagree with a lot of aspects of the original points system but when it comes down to it, having played hundreds if not thousands of games in both points systems, I prefer the original. It is not noob-friendly, and it results in more lopsided and one-sided games. People are fine with that because they feel that's the way a game should go, but I prefer a game where the losing team still has something going for it. The pointmod compliments my playing style more than the original points system does, but I would much rather play with it off.
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Sorry for caring about it. The fact that I don't play as often yet still want to see things through only shows how much more I care. Stop acting like your opinion is better because you play the game. At least my view is backed up with legitimate reasons. You just keep saying "it doesn't change anything" when it does, "it's a hassle" while that's true, but so is reloading and ammo limits, and "you don't play the game" which is irrelevant, especially when it's overshadowed by the fact that you're losing to me as far as reasons go.
Though, predictably come at me again about my post length or the fact that I don't play the game as your argument if you don't have any.
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The main difference between you and me is that I do play Renegade and I will play Renegade if and when this patch is released. You have your reasons why you feel the way you do, and I've told you mine. If you disagree that's completely fine; you are fully entitled to your opinion. Cuna would say Have a nice day
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| Re: Fix outside PTs? [message #385407 is a reply to message #385393] |
Sun, 10 May 2009 10:59 |
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cmatt42
Messages: 2057
Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Ghostshaw wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 07:10 |
Moreover this is primarily a leveledit fix and we frankly don't have time to fix all the maps.
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Hey, I'll do it. Point me in the right direction to take a crash course just for this. Whether just fixing the PTs, or adding a visual cue (an "outside PT"), I'll take the time for you.
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 10 May 2009 11:19 |
BALANS!!1
Also, something about someone named "Cuna"
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Balance or no, it's still broken. Like I've said above, I'll just add a visual cue so that new players will recognize that you can access from there.
GunKataGaming.net
[Updated on: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:00] Report message to a moderator |
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