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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384938 is a reply to message #382836] |
Thu, 07 May 2009 22:34   |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
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There was another consideration, actually, besides the projected casualty counts- if the Allies had undertaken an amphibious invasion of the Japanese home islands, the Soviet Union would have become heavily involved. By the time August rolled around, Germany had already been occupied and sliced up- and the USSR claimed a pretty big chunk of territory (while West Germany eventually regained its independence, East Germany remained a de facto Soviet colony until the Berlin Wall came down... not to mention most of Eastern Europe). There's no question that Stalin would have done the same in Japan- so the war had to be brought to a close before the USSR could make any such claim.
Look at former Warsaw Pact member states today, and compare them to NATO's sphere of influence. Stalin and his successors would have sucked dry any part of Japan they'd gotten their hands on- the country owes its present-day prosperity to having not been invaded.
Additionally, may cities were spared which might not have otherwise been. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not unique- I don't know how many people are aware of this, but Nagasaki was actually one of the secondary targets for the August 9th mission ("Bock's Car," the B-29 assigned to the Fat Man mission, was diverted from Kokura as the weather over that city was overcast). The cities chosen for the target list were chosen because they were either of high strategic value or were poorly suited for other attacks (i.e. incendiary bombs, as were used against Tokyo). While additional atomic bombs were in the final stages of production, odds are they would not have been widely used in support of an invasion- incendiaries, however, might have been (and, as has already been mentioned, the casualties from the firebomb raids were much, much higher than those from even both of the atomic raids combined- even factoring in later casualties from radiation sickness).
In short, the decision was not so simple as "we have an awesome new weapon, let's use it and shock the enemy into surrendering."
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
[Updated on: Thu, 07 May 2009 22:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385068 is a reply to message #384203] |
Fri, 08 May 2009 12:30 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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| Dover wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 22:50 |
ITT: Pissing on history, if history was upwind.
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| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385127 is a reply to message #384929] |
Fri, 08 May 2009 21:16 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40
Registered: March 2009
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| GoArmy44 wrote on Thu, 07 May 2009 23:38 |
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Btw though, as an american... How do you feel knowing ur country nuked civillian cities at the end of ww2 killing 1000's of woman and children...
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Our fire bombing killed just as many or more than the atomic bombs. As an American I am glad we nuked them...those actions saved my grandfather who was a POW in Japan at the time. The short abrupt end to the war didn't allow the Japs time to execute the prisoners which a conventional sea-borne invasion would have given.
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ask your grand father he rape japan woman?
he kill japan children even girl right?
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385184 is a reply to message #385127] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 05:16 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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that's a really shitty thing to say, and rather ironic considering the horrific way prisoners of war were treated by Imperial Japan at the time - which by the way, was the rule rather than the exception (whereas the likes of Abu Ghraib in the American case are the exception)
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385196 is a reply to message #382836] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 06:25 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Going to Germany and even mentioning hitler is like going to a Christian Church and preaching Islam. And I don't fucking get it. Russia seems to be ok with knowing stalin was a douchebag, why can't the majority of Germans do the same?
As for the Japan thing, yeah- Japan was WORSE than Germany in their torture methods and such. Nuking them might seem bad, but letting them continue on as they were wouldn't have been much better.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385200 is a reply to message #385196] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 06:47 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261
Registered: March 2006
Location: Maryland
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:25 |
Going to Germany and even mentioning hitler is like going to a Christian Church and preaching Islam. And I don't fucking get it. Russia seems to be ok with knowing stalin was a douchebag, why can't the majority of Germans do the same?
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Meh, most Germans seem to come to terms with it 'n shit. It's just a sensitive issue no matter how you look at it.
yeah
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385207 is a reply to message #385196] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 07:27 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40
Registered: March 2009
Karma: 0
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| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 08:25 |
Going to Germany and even mentioning hitler is like going to a Christian Church and preaching Islam. And I don't fucking get it. Russia seems to be ok with knowing stalin was a douchebag, why can't the majority of Germans do the same?
As for the Japan thing, yeah- Japan was WORSE than Germany in their torture methods and such. Nuking them might seem bad, but letting them continue on as they were wouldn't have been much better.
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japan worse than german?
you know what usa soldier act to pow?
usa soldier rape woman pow even man
usa soldier torture pow
usa soldier don't give pow food
usa soldier don't give pow medicine
usa soldier order pow work like slave and they never get food or medicine maybe slave better pow of usa soldier because master will give food slave because master buy slave and don't want slave perish quick
usa soldier never let pow sleep comfortable
usa soldier make case and punishment pow
if pow steal food from usa soldier they will get bullet
if pow get accident by work they never see medic
if civilian try to help pow escape they will get bullet
if civilian give food or medicine to pow and usa soldier can detect they will get bullet
if pow work until black out usa soldier will use whip flick until may perish
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
[Updated on: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385213 is a reply to message #385207] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 07:44 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 10:27 |
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 08:25 |
Going to Germany and even mentioning hitler is like going to a Christian Church and preaching Islam. And I don't fucking get it. Russia seems to be ok with knowing stalin was a douchebag, why can't the majority of Germans do the same?
As for the Japan thing, yeah- Japan was WORSE than Germany in their torture methods and such. Nuking them might seem bad, but letting them continue on as they were wouldn't have been much better.
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japan worse than german?
you know what usa act to pow?
usa soldier rape woman pow even man
usa soldier torture pow
usa soldier don't give pow food
usa soldier don't give pow medicine
usa soldier order pow work like slave
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the way USA treats POW's has never been anywhere near as horrific as the way both Germany and Japan did 70-odd years ago.
there is obviously very legitimate debate about the nuke attack, but anyone who defends the way Japan (or Germany under Hitler) was back then needs their head examined... either that or has probably just been brainwashed, like daughter diver
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385215 is a reply to message #385213] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 07:59 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40
Registered: March 2009
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Spoony wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:44 |
| DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 10:27 |
| GEORGE ZIMMER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 08:25 |
Going to Germany and even mentioning hitler is like going to a Christian Church and preaching Islam. And I don't fucking get it. Russia seems to be ok with knowing stalin was a douchebag, why can't the majority of Germans do the same?
As for the Japan thing, yeah- Japan was WORSE than Germany in their torture methods and such. Nuking them might seem bad, but letting them continue on as they were wouldn't have been much better.
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japan worse than german?
you know what usa act to pow?
usa soldier rape woman pow even man
usa soldier torture pow
usa soldier don't give pow food
usa soldier don't give pow medicine
usa soldier order pow work like slave
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the way USA treats POW's has never been anywhere near as horrific as the way both Germany and Japan did 70-odd years ago.
there is obviously very legitimate debate about the nuke attack, but anyone who defends the way Japan (or Germany under Hitler) was back then needs their head examined... either that or has probably just been brainwashed, like daughter diver
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german and japan worse than usa? absurd
jew is not pow you know?
my brain never get brainwashed
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385233 is a reply to message #385215] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 09:04 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:59 |
german and japan worse than usa? absurd
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Sometimes a rebuttal simply isn't necessary.
| DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:59 |
my brain never get brainwashed
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I'm sure you believe that.
| DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 09:59 |
jew is not pow you know?
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Of course, which is one of the many reasons why the Nazi's policy was so evil.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #385255 is a reply to message #385246] |
Sat, 09 May 2009 10:50 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40
Registered: March 2009
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| GoArmy44 wrote on Sat, 09 May 2009 11:54 |
| Quote: |
ask your grand father he rape japan woman?
he kill japan children even girl right?
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Actually my Grandfather was captured in the Philippines in '42 and went through the Bataan Death March while wounded and sick with Malaria. Then in '44 was transported to Japan in a "hellship" before the American invasion. The Japanese were pretty damn brutal, even more so than the Germans, who at least at times pretended to follow Geneva conventions for POWs. Stories are plentiful about how the Japanese treated their prisoners including the British who probably had it the worst since they were prisoners the longest and as I see it were used as forced labor more, especially in southeast Asia. I don't think they had the time or the liberty to "rape japan woman." And since you are arguing on an English language forum..learn some damn syntax man.
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your grandfather don't have time but other have
i don't have money for english lesson
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #386637 is a reply to message #382932] |
Sun, 17 May 2009 08:38 |
w0dka
Messages: 181
Registered: March 2006
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Karma: 0
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| Sir Kane wrote on Mon, 27 April 2009 08:48 |
Who the fuck cares about the history?
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smart people.... because they hate to do errors twice.
@topic
In germany its fairly actuall and something pretty present in the media. But at least I slowly grow tired ofthis whole "remember the past" yes. We germans done horrible things to a good part of the world and we are not proud of it, but sometimesI ask myself when its time to cut with it and stop paying for our mistakes and work like a modern country.
Today we build new monuments to the victims, our government want to make sure that every 10th grade pupil visits a concentration camp (actually highschool-only, all others can do it, but usually don't becauseof money/lack of discipline)
If a government official says something negative about israel he's usually screwed. Oh and if Israel requests something its usually immediatly done.
I would say pretty much every week there is something in the news...
So a directly answer to your question:
Most germans (say 95%) don't deny it, but we prefered to be seen as something else as the country-created-out-of-hitler-germany. Always remember, we are already the second generation after the war. Most of those 3rd Reich officials are either dead or in prison if possible, a few days ago the USA even help us get our hands on one of those jailors... And if he is declared sane+healthy enough he will get his punishment even 60 years after the incident.
Thanks.
[Updated on: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:50] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #387048 is a reply to message #386637] |
Tue, 19 May 2009 16:26 |
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slosha
Messages: 1540
Registered: September 2008
Location: North Dakota FTW
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| w0dka wrote on Sun, 17 May 2009 10:38 |
We germans done horrible things to a good part of the world and we are not proud of it, but sometimesI ask myself when its time to cut with it and stop paying for our mistakes and work like a modern country.
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That's not how I look at it at all. Germany did nothing wrong. It's Hitler and his circle taking advantage of the situation and killing every opponent. I don't blame the Germans at all and have nothing against them.
The road I cruise is a bitch now, baby.
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| Re: Germans and WW2 [message #387051 is a reply to message #382836] |
Tue, 19 May 2009 16:36 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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If I were German, I'd probably get a bit bugged about how much it lingers. Yes it was terrible, but people ought to focus on all the good stuff German's have done, like inventing the automobile, as well as being an impressive industrial power both before the depression, and afterwards. Same thing goes for Japan.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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