Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Germans and WW2
Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384095 is a reply to message #384087] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 07:40 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261 Registered: March 2006 Location: Maryland
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 09:58 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:50 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:37 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 02 May 2009 21:36 | Some of the Japanese beliefs then were pretty crazy. if the emperor would've followed the code of bushido and never surrendered, tokyo would've been flattened too. now I know we were bluffing, but it wouldn't have been long before we got another nuke and we most likely would've been able to hold off the axis until then.
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why you say japanese crazy?
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no i meant their code of bushido, never backing down, could've caused a lot of death. that's all i meant.
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it japan culture you can't judge them
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Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
yeah
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384099 is a reply to message #384087] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 08:13 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote | why you say japanese crazy?
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote | it japan culture you can't judge them
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read this post of mine again, especially the bit i've highlighted.
spoony wrote | allying with hitler is hardly the only appalling thing Japan did under a theocratic, fascist imperialism.
Japan (and for that matter Germany) is a pretty good example of how "installing democracy" (after overthrowing fascist dictatorships) can work; look at the two countries now, compared to what they were 60-70 years ago. the reason japan was such an appalling country back then wasn't because it was japanese, but because it was so religious. claiming a human is a physical incarnation of a god! when has this ever not resulted in horrific misery?
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it is not "japan" that we are criticising (any more than it is "germany" that is being criticised when people talk about Hitler and the Nazis).
Quote: | the reason japan was such an appalling country back then wasn't because it was japanese, but because it was so religious.
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^^
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
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1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384118 is a reply to message #384099] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 11:05 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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Spoony wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 17:13 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote | why you say japanese crazy?
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote | it japan culture you can't judge them
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read this post of mine again, especially the bit i've highlighted.
spoony wrote | allying with hitler is hardly the only appalling thing Japan did under a theocratic, fascist imperialism.
Japan (and for that matter Germany) is a pretty good example of how "installing democracy" (after overthrowing fascist dictatorships) can work; look at the two countries now, compared to what they were 60-70 years ago. the reason japan was such an appalling country back then wasn't because it was japanese, but because it was so religious. claiming a human is a physical incarnation of a god! when has this ever not resulted in horrific misery?
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it is not "japan" that we are criticising (any more than it is "germany" that is being criticised when people talk about Hitler and the Nazis).
Quote: | the reason japan was such an appalling country back then wasn't because it was japanese, but because it was so religious.
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^^
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it because physical incarnation of a god make japan lost war and you slag off royal?
if japan have president and lost war
you will slag off democracy?
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
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MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384120 is a reply to message #384095] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 11:07 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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u6795 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 09:40 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 09:58 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:50 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:37 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 02 May 2009 21:36 | Some of the Japanese beliefs then were pretty crazy. if the emperor would've followed the code of bushido and never surrendered, tokyo would've been flattened too. now I know we were bluffing, but it wouldn't have been long before we got another nuke and we most likely would've been able to hold off the axis until then.
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why you say japanese crazy?
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no i meant their code of bushido, never backing down, could've caused a lot of death. that's all i meant.
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it japan culture you can't judge them
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Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
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it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384123 is a reply to message #384120] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 11:27 |
genetix
Messages: 392 Registered: July 2003 Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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Commander |
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u6795 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 09:58 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:50 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:37 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 02 May 2009 21:36 | Some of the Japanese beliefs then were pretty crazy. if the emperor would've followed the code of bushido and never surrendered, tokyo would've been flattened too. now I know we were bluffing, but it wouldn't have been long before we got another nuke and we most likely would've been able to hold off the axis until then.
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why you say japanese crazy?
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no i meant their code of bushido, never backing down, could've caused a lot of death. that's all i meant.
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it japan culture you can't judge them
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Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
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You say that after the fact. The turning point in the war was the shock factor from the atomic bomb. There were rumours of it but it had never been used. Japan was in a VERY strong position in the war. Think about it. They're on an island on the other side of the pacific ocean. It was really hard for the US to attack them. It was nearly impossible to take over any land.
If the bomb wasn't created than they would have had almost nothing to fear. Not to mention Germany was creating a bomb even larger then the atomic bomb. Japan's don't back done attitude put them in power. They made them an army to fear.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 12:07 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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Thats a new one to me. Times must have changed a lot because that definately wasn't the attitude when I was there.
Puzzle - Petals Around the Rose
[Updated on: Sun, 03 May 2009 11:29] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384125 is a reply to message #384118] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 11:36 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | it because physical incarnation of a god make japan lost war and you slag off royal?
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No, I'm not slagging them off because they lost the war. I'm not even claiming that the religion is why they lost the war. I am, however, claiming that the compulsory religion is why the country was such an appalling place at the time.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | if japan have president and lost war
you will slag off democracy?
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For starters, if they were democratic they probably wouldn't have taken Hitler's side in the first place. Secondly, allying with Hitler is far from the only thing they did. The fact it was a fascist dictatorship, there's a good start. Brainwashing and virtually enslaving the entire country (remember that when you talk about what "they" want... as if they had any choice). Plundering and enslaving huge areas of China, Indochina and the Pacific. And a policy towards civilians and prisoners of war that was thought by many to be worse than the Nazis.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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The above reply covers this. If you have something to say against America (pre-1945, of course) that comes anywhere near as bad as the appalling things I said against Imperial Japan, I would be very interested to hear it, because my knowledge of history would be demonstrated rather lacking.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384154 is a reply to message #384123] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 15:49 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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genetix wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:27 |
u6795 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 09:58 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:50 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 01:37 |
2GLOCK9S wrote on Sat, 02 May 2009 21:36 | Some of the Japanese beliefs then were pretty crazy. if the emperor would've followed the code of bushido and never surrendered, tokyo would've been flattened too. now I know we were bluffing, but it wouldn't have been long before we got another nuke and we most likely would've been able to hold off the axis until then.
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why you say japanese crazy?
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no i meant their code of bushido, never backing down, could've caused a lot of death. that's all i meant.
|
it japan culture you can't judge them
|
Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
|
You say that after the fact. The turning point in the war was the shock factor from the atomic bomb. There were rumours of it but it had never been used. Japan was in a VERY strong position in the war. Think about it. They're on an island on the other side of the pacific ocean. It was really hard for the US to attack them. It was nearly impossible to take over any land.
If the bomb wasn't created than they would have had almost nothing to fear. Not to mention Germany was creating a bomb even larger then the atomic bomb. Japan's don't back done attitude put them in power. They made them an army to fear.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 12:07 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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Thats a new one to me. Times must have changed a lot because that definately wasn't the attitude when I was there.
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america never use nuke to japan?
hard to attack?
absurd
if japan hard to attack for america why now japan have america base?
you are canada or america citizen?
if you are america and japan take care you because they lost to america
if you talk about nuke like this to people lost his/her family you may get bullet
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
[Updated on: Sun, 03 May 2009 15:54] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384155 is a reply to message #384125] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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Spoony wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:36 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | it because physical incarnation of a god make japan lost war and you slag off royal?
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No, I'm not slagging them off because they lost the war. I'm not even claiming that the religion is why they lost the war. I am, however, claiming that the compulsory religion is why the country was such an appalling place at the time.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | if japan have president and lost war
you will slag off democracy?
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For starters, if they were democratic they probably wouldn't have taken Hitler's side in the first place. Secondly, allying with Hitler is far from the only thing they did. The fact it was a fascist dictatorship, there's a good start. Brainwashing and virtually enslaving the entire country (remember that when you talk about what "they" want... as if they had any choice). Plundering and enslaving huge areas of China, Indochina and the Pacific. And a policy towards civilians and prisoners of war that was thought by many to be worse than the Nazis.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:05 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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The above reply covers this. If you have something to say against America (pre-1945, of course) that comes anywhere near as bad as the appalling things I said against Imperial Japan, I would be very interested to hear it, because my knowledge of history would be demonstrated rather lacking.
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they belive about incarnation of a god it not religion it royal ceremony and japanese belive buddha is god and true god
america despotic japan very long time they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
[Updated on: Sun, 03 May 2009 16:05] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384185 is a reply to message #384154] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 19:45 |
genetix
Messages: 392 Registered: July 2003 Location: Saskatchewan Canada
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Commander |
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 16:49 |
genetix wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:27 |
u6795 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40 |
Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
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You say that after the fact. The turning point in the war was the shock factor from the atomic bomb. There were rumours of it but it had never been used. Japan was in a VERY strong position in the war. Think about it. They're on an island on the other side of the pacific ocean. It was really hard for the US to attack them. It was nearly impossible to take over any land.
If the bomb wasn't created than they would have had almost nothing to fear. Not to mention Germany was creating a bomb even larger then the atomic bomb. Japan's don't back done attitude put them in power. They made them an army to fear.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 12:07 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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Thats a new one to me. Times must have changed a lot because that definately wasn't the attitude when I was there.
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america never use nuke to japan?
hard to attack?
absurd
if japan hard to attack for america why now japan have america base?
you are canada or america citizen?
if you are america and japan take care you because they lost to america
if you talk about nuke like this to people lost his/her family you may get bullet
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No it sounds like you misunderstood. Japan was not aware of the atomic bomb. That is the main reason why Japan surrendered. They made a very successful offensive and the US retaliated with two bombs stronger than anyone could have imagined.
Japan was in a very good position before the bombs were dropped. At the time Germany was almost finished making an atomic bomb even larger than the one the US made.
Japan was extremely difficult to land on. Its a very small country with a very high population. They actually made two movies based on the US offensive against the Japanese. A lot of US soldiers were killed just so the US could gain a foothold in Japan. I believe it was an agreement in the terms of surrender that the US would receiving land in Japan as well. Either that or its the land they did in fact take before the surrender.
I'm a Canadian citizen. I traveled to Japan about four years ago on an exchange program. I was there when all the remembrance ceremonies were going on. I don't see how anything I said could be taken offensively? I think you mistranslated it.
Puzzle - Petals Around the Rose
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384202 is a reply to message #384185] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 22:49 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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genetix wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 21:45 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 16:49 |
genetix wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 13:27 |
u6795 wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 08:40 |
Except their culture at the time lead to millions of deaths that could have been easily averted.
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You say that after the fact. The turning point in the war was the shock factor from the atomic bomb. There were rumours of it but it had never been used. Japan was in a VERY strong position in the war. Think about it. They're on an island on the other side of the pacific ocean. It was really hard for the US to attack them. It was nearly impossible to take over any land.
If the bomb wasn't created than they would have had almost nothing to fear. Not to mention Germany was creating a bomb even larger then the atomic bomb. Japan's don't back done attitude put them in power. They made them an army to fear.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 12:07 | it not bushido that make japan don't want to surrender to america they want to fight because they hate america very much
it very long story
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Thats a new one to me. Times must have changed a lot because that definately wasn't the attitude when I was there.
|
america never use nuke to japan?
hard to attack?
absurd
if japan hard to attack for america why now japan have america base?
you are canada or america citizen?
if you are america and japan take care you because they lost to america
if you talk about nuke like this to people lost his/her family you may get bullet
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No it sounds like you misunderstood. Japan was not aware of the atomic bomb. That is the main reason why Japan surrendered. They made a very successful offensive and the US retaliated with two bombs stronger than anyone could have imagined.
Japan was in a very good position before the bombs were dropped. At the time Germany was almost finished making an atomic bomb even larger than the one the US made.
Japan was extremely difficult to land on. Its a very small country with a very high population. They actually made two movies based on the US offensive against the Japanese. A lot of US soldiers were killed just so the US could gain a foothold in Japan. I believe it was an agreement in the terms of surrender that the US would receiving land in Japan as well. Either that or its the land they did in fact take before the surrender.
I'm a Canadian citizen. I traveled to Japan about four years ago on an exchange program. I was there when all the remembrance ceremonies were going on. I don't see how anything I said could be taken offensively? I think you mistranslated it.
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hard to attack?
a lot of usa soldier dead?
japan soldier use sword and rifle can shoot only 1 bullet and must reload after shoot and equip with sword gun
usa soldier use submachine gun have 30 bullet in magazine
usa use carpet bomb japan soldier don't have aa or flak cannon they use rifle shoot plane
usa use tank japan don't have tank japan soldier with rifle fight with tank and get crush down
usa soldier use battle ship shoot to city japan soldier don't have battle ship they swim to battle ship and try to climb but they get bullet
usa soldier will dead a lot?
japan soldier don't have provision they must capture rat,snake,spider,frog,bird or patient until dead
usa soldier have provision abound they eat beef steak beef hamburger french fried soda chocolate everyday
they have a lot of beef until can make bbq party on battle ship
they have a lot of chocolate until can throw chocolate to floor for make japan children quarrel
they lure japan children like dog by gum
japan it very hard to attack?
usa have base in japan after lose
http://glamorousdaughter.blogspot.com
http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
[Updated on: Mon, 11 May 2009 06:05] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384203 is a reply to message #382836] |
Sun, 03 May 2009 22:50 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547 Registered: March 2006 Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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ITT: Pissing on history, if history was upwind.
DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 | Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384261 is a reply to message #384243] |
Mon, 04 May 2009 11:44 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261 Registered: March 2006 Location: Maryland
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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madrackz wrote on Mon, 04 May 2009 11:22 | Hope the germans make fire under 2GLOCK9S ´s ass
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Why? He's being very respectful and is simply expressing curiosity as to how Germans react to questions like this about a pretty shitty time period.
yeah
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384398 is a reply to message #384358] |
Tue, 05 May 2009 11:45 |
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u6795
Messages: 1261 Registered: March 2006 Location: Maryland
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General (1 Star) |
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madrackz wrote on Tue, 05 May 2009 09:10 | No joke, hope they burn you and your house down
Im not german, i just live here
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Then what the fuck is your problem, dude?
yeah
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384405 is a reply to message #384155] |
Tue, 05 May 2009 12:15 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915 Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | they belive about incarnation of a god it not religion it royal ceremony and japanese belive buddha is god and true god
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You say that's not a religion... it was one of the most religious regimes in recent times, right up there with Stalin's Russia. There was no escaping it and no questioning it.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | america despotic japan very long time they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
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Read my post again:
spoony wrote | If you have something to say against America (pre-1945, of course) that comes anywhere near as bad as the appalling things I said against Imperial Japan, I would be very interested to hear it
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It sounds like you're saying that this:
Quote: | they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
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is worse than this:
Quote: | allying with Hitler is far from the only thing they did. The fact it was a fascist dictatorship, there's a good start. Brainwashing and virtually enslaving the entire country (remember that when you talk about what "they" want... as if they had any choice). Plundering and enslaving huge areas of China, Indochina and the Pacific. And a policy towards civilians and prisoners of war that was thought by many to be worse than the Nazis.
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Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
|
|
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384414 is a reply to message #384358] |
Tue, 05 May 2009 13:03 |
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slosha
Messages: 1540 Registered: September 2008 Location: North Dakota FTW
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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madrackz wrote on Tue, 05 May 2009 08:10 | No joke, hope they burn you and your house down
Im not german, i just live here
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madrackz.. get the fuck out.. you come here and just act like a little tough punk. you think people here are scared of you or intimidated? get over urself man.
The road I cruise is a bitch now, baby.
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384417 is a reply to message #384405] |
Tue, 05 May 2009 13:10 |
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Spoony wrote on Tue, 05 May 2009 20:15 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | they belive about incarnation of a god it not religion it royal ceremony and japanese belive buddha is god and true god
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You say that's not a religion... it was one of the most religious regimes in recent times, right up there with Stalin's Russia. There was no escaping it and no questioning it.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | america despotic japan very long time they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
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Read my post again:
spoony wrote | If you have something to say against America (pre-1945, of course) that comes anywhere near as bad as the appalling things I said against Imperial Japan, I would be very interested to hear it
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It sounds like you're saying that this:
Quote: | they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
|
is worse than this:
Quote: | allying with Hitler is far from the only thing they did. The fact it was a fascist dictatorship, there's a good start. Brainwashing and virtually enslaving the entire country (remember that when you talk about what "they" want... as if they had any choice). Plundering and enslaving huge areas of China, Indochina and the Pacific. And a policy towards civilians and prisoners of war that was thought by many to be worse than the Nazis.
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Pre 50's (Might be as late as sometime in the 60's) America was still in favour of eugenics programmes...
(I can get the proper source for this if you want)
Renguard is a wonderful initiative
Toggle Spoiler
BBC news, quoting... |
Supporters of Proposition 8 will argue California does not discriminate against gays, as the current law allows them to get married - as long as they wed a partner of the opposite sex.
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halokid wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 08:46 |
R315r4z0r wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:35 |
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the hell is that?
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Re: Germans and WW2 [message #384514 is a reply to message #384405] |
Wed, 06 May 2009 02:51 |
DAUGHTER DIVER
Messages: 40 Registered: March 2009
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Spoony wrote on Tue, 05 May 2009 21:15 |
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | they belive about incarnation of a god it not religion it royal ceremony and japanese belive buddha is god and true god
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You say that's not a religion... it was one of the most religious regimes in recent times, right up there with Stalin's Russia. There was no escaping it and no questioning it.
DAUGHTER DIVER wrote on Sun, 03 May 2009 15:57 | america despotic japan very long time they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
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Read my post again:
spoony wrote | If you have something to say against America (pre-1945, of course) that comes anywhere near as bad as the appalling things I said against Imperial Japan, I would be very interested to hear it
|
It sounds like you're saying that this:
Quote: | they use army to obligate japan for money and treasure
|
is worse than this:
Quote: | allying with Hitler is far from the only thing they did. The fact it was a fascist dictatorship, there's a good start. Brainwashing and virtually enslaving the entire country (remember that when you talk about what "they" want... as if they had any choice). Plundering and enslaving huge areas of China, Indochina and the Pacific. And a policy towards civilians and prisoners of war that was thought by many to be worse than the Nazis.
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2.where
4.tell me
5.it true but it against usa despotic japan?
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http://liberationarmyhqpartiii.blogspot.com/
http://riffraffland.blogspot.com/
WANTED
PERISH ONLY
Thaksin Shinawatra
2250 BATH
MARINE
if you hunger vast but don't have money steal rice for live
[Updated on: Wed, 06 May 2009 02:53] Report message to a moderator
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