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Re: Debate on Altruism. [message #371938 is a reply to message #371908]

Fri, 13 February 2009 08:24

cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan

Karma:

General (5 Stars)

reborn wrote on Fri, 13 February 2009 02:41

After contemplating this, I have to come to the conclusion that my original position is wrong.

The very definition of a selfless act is flawed. Because simply it means you have to act, the process of acting means you have to want to do it, and the act fulfills that want. Even if you don't want to do it, you do it for some reason, and this reason is gratified by your act.

If there is no reason for your action, then there is no intent to do a selfless deed. Without the intent, it cannot be a selfless act.

The burden of this knowledge is greater then you might think.
I gave this a great deal of contemplation through meditating on the subject. I used to believe that the pursuit of enlightenment was a selfless act, it's motivation driven by the want to free people from suffering. But this is not a selfess act.

The consequence of knowing there is no selfless act is troublesome for me, I am having difficulty digesting it.
If there is no such thing as a selfless act, my nature is based on self. Then what is the meaning of life?

Am I to assume that I must defy my nature, which is impossible, or accept my nature and act accordingly.
I cannot possibly believe that anything I do which I used to deem as a good deed is selfless, I did it for my own benefit, it was driven by my nature of self.

Perhaps I should make knowledge my pursuit, experiance of life maybe. Even if I make my pursuit in life a noble one, it is still driven by my nature of self.
I must therefore conclude that there is no meaning to life, if there is indeed an afterlife then there is nothing I can do to justify my existance, it's just a pointless exercise.

I might aswell accept my nature and try to enjoy myself. Perhaps if there is a creator then this was there intention, and this is the best thing I can do with my life, as I am incapable of anything else anyway.
Or maybe despite knowing that I perform these acts for my own benefit in some way, I should continue anyway because I believe it's the right thing to do.

It's quite perplexing, and I must thankyou for making me challenge it. Although it is almost equally as easy to not thankyou and curse you for this knowledge. But I do not believe that ignornace is bliss.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You're looking at in black and white. Either you're completely selfless or you're an egomaniac. I don't think that's true. I think it all boils down to the intent and desire. Yes, you HAVE intent and desire, and you can't shake that, but what makes the desire to do good any less noble and moral than being completely "selfless"? I think actually DESIRING to help others is more noble than walking through life as someone who doesn't act in a way that fulfills a desire to help others.

Besides, if you can't respect yourself, you cannot respect others. Thus, self-preservation is the first step in forming relationships with others and the world. It's a good thing, and without it, we would never have progressed as a species or a society.

whoa.

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[Message index]

		Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 14:55
		Re: Racism By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 10 February 2009 16:07
		Re: Racism By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 16:59
		Re: Racism By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 10 February 2009 17:09
		Re: Racism By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 10 February 2009 20:42
		Re: Racism By: z310 on Tue, 10 February 2009 23:26
		Re: Racism By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:47
		Re: Racism By: Spoony on Wed, 11 February 2009 07:24
		Re: Racism By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:50
		Re: Racism By: u6795 on Tue, 10 February 2009 19:29
		Re: Racism By: Ethenal on Tue, 10 February 2009 19:43
		Re: Racism By: Ma1kel on Wed, 11 February 2009 01:37
		Re: Racism By: SSADMVR on Wed, 11 February 2009 02:45
		Re: Racism By: Starbuzz on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:36
		Re: Racism By: z310 on Wed, 11 February 2009 03:12
		Re: Racism By: Goztow on Wed, 11 February 2009 04:26
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 06:30
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 07:30
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Wed, 11 February 2009 08:04
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:02
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 10:50
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:15
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 11 February 2009 21:26
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Wed, 11 February 2009 10:52
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Starbuzz on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:14
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ryu on Wed, 11 February 2009 12:56
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 16:15
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 18:22
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 00:38
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 04:03
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Thu, 12 February 2009 02:48
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 03:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 05:59
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:28
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 07:17
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:01
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:14
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:13
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:13
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 09:07
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:31
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:54
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:57
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:02
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:11
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:19
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:46
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:54
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:01
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:08
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Fri, 13 February 2009 04:33
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 05:07
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:08
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:20
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:09
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:37
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:00
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:05
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: CarrierII on Thu, 12 February 2009 15:39
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 12 February 2009 16:31
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 16:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Muad Dib15 on Thu, 12 February 2009 17:58
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: BlueThen on Thu, 12 February 2009 18:03
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 18:12
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 00:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 13 February 2009 08:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Sun, 15 February 2009 01:25
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 09:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 13 February 2009 10:05
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: z310 on Sun, 15 February 2009 01:47
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Sun, 15 February 2009 11:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Tue, 17 February 2009 11:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Tue, 17 February 2009 23:59
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Wed, 18 February 2009 13:43

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