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Re: Debate on Altruism. [message #371765 is a reply to message #371463]

Thu, 12 February 2009 07:17

reborn
Messages: 3231
Registered: September 2004
Location: uk - london

Karma:

General (3 Stars)

cheesesoda wrote on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:28

You can't have empathy without feeling SOMETHING in some form.

1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

If you don't feel guilty about NOT doing something, then it's NOT empathy, and it's NOT altruism. It's, once again, done in self-interest.

Besides, if you don't feel, how in the HELL is that enlightenment? That sounds a lot more like sociopathy.

I've never heard anyone compare it to sociopathy, you made me laugh out loud. But less humoursly, this is not the case.

My motivation in helping people comes from a desire to free people from suffering.

You could argue that because I desire this, then there is in a certain sense a form of ego. There is something in it for me...
My desire has been gratified by my good deed. Which is what I think is your point and what you are trying to argue. Which is most cases is likely to be true.

However, my desire is only to see people freed from suffering, nothing more. That sentence is important to understand. I only wish for all sentient life's freedom from suffering, which is a perfect case and exact example of altruism, infact it is pretty much the definition of it.
Any happiness, or joy I feel from this act is merely a by-product, my real desire is there freedom from suffering; a selfless act. My motivation, my reasoning for doing it, is purely to free them from suffering.

I guess it comes down to if you can believe that someones motivation can be the other persons happiness, and if you feel better for doing this, then this is just a by-product and not the motivation for doing such acts.

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[Message index]

		Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 14:55
		Re: Racism By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 10 February 2009 16:07
		Re: Racism By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 16:59
		Re: Racism By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Tue, 10 February 2009 17:09
		Re: Racism By: R315r4z0r on Tue, 10 February 2009 20:42
		Re: Racism By: z310 on Tue, 10 February 2009 23:26
		Re: Racism By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:47
		Re: Racism By: Spoony on Wed, 11 February 2009 07:24
		Re: Racism By: cheesesoda on Tue, 10 February 2009 18:50
		Re: Racism By: u6795 on Tue, 10 February 2009 19:29
		Re: Racism By: Ethenal on Tue, 10 February 2009 19:43
		Re: Racism By: Ma1kel on Wed, 11 February 2009 01:37
		Re: Racism By: SSADMVR on Wed, 11 February 2009 02:45
		Re: Racism By: Starbuzz on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:36
		Re: Racism By: z310 on Wed, 11 February 2009 03:12
		Re: Racism By: Goztow on Wed, 11 February 2009 04:26
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 06:30
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 07:30
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Wed, 11 February 2009 08:04
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Wed, 11 February 2009 09:02
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 10:50
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 15:15
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 11 February 2009 21:26
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Wed, 11 February 2009 10:52
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Starbuzz on Wed, 11 February 2009 11:14
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ryu on Wed, 11 February 2009 12:56
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: R315r4z0r on Wed, 11 February 2009 16:15
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Wed, 11 February 2009 18:22
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 00:38
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 04:03
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Thu, 12 February 2009 02:48
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 03:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 05:59
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:28
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 06:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 07:17
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:01
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:14
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:13
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 08:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:13
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 09:07
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:31
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 10:54
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Thu, 12 February 2009 11:57
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: SSADMVR on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:02
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:11
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:19
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:46
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 12:54
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:01
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:08
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Spoony on Fri, 13 February 2009 04:33
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 05:07
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:08
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:20
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:09
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 13:37
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:00
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Herr Surth on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:05
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 14:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: CarrierII on Thu, 12 February 2009 15:39
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: nikki6ixx on Thu, 12 February 2009 16:31
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 16:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Muad Dib15 on Thu, 12 February 2009 17:58
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: BlueThen on Thu, 12 February 2009 18:03
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Thu, 12 February 2009 18:12
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 00:41
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 13 February 2009 08:24
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Sun, 15 February 2009 01:25
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: reborn on Fri, 13 February 2009 09:27
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: cheesesoda on Fri, 13 February 2009 10:05
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: z310 on Sun, 15 February 2009 01:47
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Sun, 15 February 2009 11:29
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Tue, 17 February 2009 11:35
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: bisen11 on Tue, 17 February 2009 23:59
		Re: Debate on Altruism. By: Ma1kel on Wed, 18 February 2009 13:43

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