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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370352 is a reply to message #362337] |
Tue, 03 February 2009 19:50   |
DeadX07
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I don't believe any single person can come to make a person believe in God. What I do believe, is that people can help you in your research, and help you come to understand what physical information we do have, what truths we do have, and the rest is your own doing. Each individual person reacts to information differently, for you Jake, as intelligent as you seem, I hope you have been, or are doing research on the subject outside of public forums and on your own. A public forum is not the place to do research, nor should your research be based upon peoples own beliefs or opinions.
Ultimately, its up to you to decide what you believe. If you really want an answer, then you need to go out there and find it! If you do seek to learn about God, and those who believe in God and why, speak with these types of people.
I always encourage people who are looking for an answer to speak with both sides! I personally believe in God strongly, and I have my own reasons, and my own personal experiences to back what I believe. Would you believe what I believe? Probably not, because your experiences are not my experiences!
Ask atheists what they believe and why. Ask agnostics what they believe and why. Ask strong believers in God what they believe in why. Do your own research, and make your own journey. And remember! Influence yourself, and don't be influenced by others. Its your journey alone, and no one should criticize you because your looking for an answer, and trying to search yourself, and find what you believe, and why you believe it.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370361 is a reply to message #362337] |
Tue, 03 February 2009 21:18 |
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cheesesoda
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I was a Christian, and through contemplation and realization, I have decided that religious faiths are nothing but crocks of shit. A lot of it has to do with traditions. A lot of it has to do with answering questions that sciences of the times couldn't answer. A lot if it has to do with ways to promote their culture's growth by strict regulations.
I've also come to the conclusion that there's no way any one faith could get a supreme being's character correct. It just seems impossible, even if you try to claim that the Bible was inspired, ignoring the fact that several books never made it into the Bible.
Besides, the God of Judaism and Christianity is one hateful son of a bitch. Sure, the whole Bible tries to paint him as just and loving, but if you get on his bad side, you're screwed. Not in the "you're going to Hell for denying me" screwed, but "muahahahahahaha, buuuuuuuuuuuurn heathen buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn" screwed.
whoa.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370365 is a reply to message #362337] |
Tue, 03 February 2009 22:21 |
DeadX07
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'Religions', or 'religious faiths' are flawed. You are a servant of God, or you are not a servant of God. There is no in between, right or left.
No one person can get God's character correct, this is absolutely true. We don't know God, and even those who 'do', don't. The Bible shows God as both furious and destructive, loving and caring. He is absolutely not only loving and caring, but he definitely does not hate either. He wiped out entire civilizations, he spread plagues and disease, made peoples lives miserable, and much much worse. And as you said, you get on his bad side, and yes, you may be screwed. It all depends. I cannot elaborate further on this specific issue, because I simply do not carry the authority to make assumptions or spread false knowledge.
Now why would anyone believe, or worship a God that is so mean? A lot wouldn't, and don't. If you put it into the perspective of, "Why would you loan someone a hundred dollars if they treat you horribly?" it becomes quite clear. A lot of people in the Bible detested God, violated his name. A lot of people who don't believe in God are not necessarily doing anything against God by not believing. But there are those who are, and that is definitely not good.
I myself have had quite a miserable life thus far. A lot of good, and a lot of bad. Its neither been more one than the other, but because of what I believe and through my own experiences, the bad is quite alright too. If you don't believe in God, that absolutely does not mean your life will be bad. As a matter of fact, a lot people who don't believe in God have quite enjoyable lives.
The only thing I can say is one must do the research on their own, and come to their own conclusions, but truly must seek the truth itself. This is a bit of an ambiguous statement, but it will speak for itself over time.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370512 is a reply to message #370346] |
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:32 |
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Spoony
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| DeadX07 wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 20:25 |
A poke of thought for people who haven't actually done any research: The entire book of Exodus is scientifically proven, with respect to the physical things science can prove.
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Funny you say that, cos the Israeli archeologists tasked to prove the whole flight-from-Egypt business had to eventually admit that the whole thing was almost certainly made up.
Still, I can't wait to hear this; please do demonstrate how the entire book of Exodus (i.e. one small part of the Bible, but let's overlook that for a moment) "is scientifically proven". The existence of its most important characters Yahweh and Moses, for example... because if there has ever been any evidence for Yahweh's existence, it's obviously been hushed up so well it would probably make a convincing X-Files episode, and as for Moses, the Bible itself says nobody knows where his tomb is (which makes you wonder how anyone knows all about his last words)
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370516 is a reply to message #370206] |
Wed, 04 February 2009 16:38 |
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Spoony
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| Frontier Psychiatrist wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 08:49 |
perhaps it is god, who should come down here, and beg for OUR forgiveness!
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I said something similar a few threads ago; if Jesus is God (for all the sense that makes), then perhaps the crucifixion was a punishment for everything God allegedly did, albeit a disproportionately lenient punishment.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370525 is a reply to message #362337] |
Wed, 04 February 2009 17:05 |
DeadX07
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I can't demonstrate how the entire book of Exodus was proven through scientific means. If you want to know why I mentioned that, then pull up the documentary on it that was broad casted on the History Channel. Then, do more research on the matter yourself.
As for not knowing where moses "tomb" is, you need to be careful. The Bible does not state that Moses had a tomb. You are correct that it says nobody knows where he was buried. You also have to take into consideration that the Bible was written thousands of years ago, and that does not mean that we cannot find things that were lost back then. You also have to take the words in the Bible with an open mind: Back then they did not know how to describe many things. Try describing a silicon microchip to a four year old in a way that they would understand.. The description would probably not be that of an actual microchip, with respect you might describe its shape, color, or other things similar.
We do not understand everything, and what we do, we must consider that we really don't.
Though Spoony, I'm not going to discuss this with you. In every argument I have ever seen you partake in on these forums, it is very clear that you do not enter discussions to discuss issues, rather to oppress and force upon others what you believe. You must open your mind and take in both sides, do the research, and seek the truth yourself.
It is very good to ponder your own assumptions, but spreading assumptions as truth because it is what you strongly believe, is not the right way to go about it. Do the research, and start your own journey to seek the truth. And in particular Renegade Forums is not the best place to start.
I wish you the best of luck to you if you decide to seek truthful knowledge, and not assumptions and personal belief-based ideas and opinions.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370566 is a reply to message #370525] |
Thu, 05 February 2009 00:58 |
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jnz
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| DeadX07 wrote on Thu, 05 February 2009 00:05 |
Though Spoony, I'm not going to discuss this with you. In every argument I have ever seen you partake in on these forums, it is very clear that you do not enter discussions to discuss issues, rather to oppress and force upon others what you believe. You must open your mind and take in both sides, do the research, and seek the truth yourself.
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Although Spoony is a twat, yes. I have found that Christians (in particular) seem to force their own religion on us. Yes, this is stereotypical, not all of you do it. I don't take to the streets with a megaphone and attempt to convince people that we all evolved from apes, can you ever say you have seen that?
DeadX07 I have seen most religions for what they are and I will keep a closed mind.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370569 is a reply to message #362337] |
Thu, 05 February 2009 01:40 |
DeadX07
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A lot of people in 'Religions' do try to force their beliefs on people. That is very wrong. You absolutely cannot force someone to believe something, just because you believe it is right. One must come forth themselves, out of their own free will and self-belief. I myself do not belong to any religion, I'm merely a servant of God, not the left, or the right.
I don't say keep an open mind about religion though, only about the truth itself, which one must seek on their own.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370572 is a reply to message #370525] |
Thu, 05 February 2009 02:41 |
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Spoony
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| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
I can't demonstrate how the entire book of Exodus was proven through scientific means.
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How unexpected.
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
If you want to know why I mentioned that, then pull up the documentary on it that was broad casted on the History Channel.
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You pull it up.
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
As for not knowing where moses "tomb" is, you need to be careful. The Bible does not state that Moses had a tomb. You are correct that it says nobody knows where he was buried.
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Yes, and isn't that rather odd? We have speeches of his last words, and we have the assertion that he was buried. So who buried him, and how do we know his last words?
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
You also have to take into consideration that the Bible was written thousands of years ago
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I've never failed to take that into consideration; it's always worth the reminder every time someone refers you to its pronouncements on morality and science (i.e. all the time). It's always worth reminding yourself that it was written at a time when we knew very little at all about the world, the universe, and ourselves.
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
You also have to take the words in the Bible with an open mind
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Yes, that's precisely why I question them.
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
We do not understand everything, and what we do, we must consider that we really don't.
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Yes, that's precisely why I question it.
Science is how we understand things we don't understand yet. Religion isn't; it just tries to fill in any gaps in our understanding by saying "God did it, case closed"
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
Though Spoony, I'm not going to discuss this with you.
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It's surprising how many people say this, usually in the same post as when they attempt to.
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
In every argument I have ever seen you partake in on these forums, it is very clear that you do not enter discussions to discuss issues, rather to oppress and force upon others what you believe.
You must open your mind and take in both sides, do the research, and seek the truth yourself.
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Rhetoric. There's no sense here. Why do you say I'm not "discussing issues" when that is clearly exactly what I am doing? What "oppression" is going on? What am I "forcing upon others"? How is my mind not "open" and "not taking in both sides" when almost every post of mine is a direct quote of people I'm debating against, and a rebuttal against everything they say?
There you are, see if you can "start your own journey to the truth" by answering those questions. Unless, of course, you're "not going to discuss this with me".
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
It is very good to ponder your own assumptions, but spreading assumptions as truth because it is what you strongly believe, is not the right way to go about it.
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Yes, that's why I argue against that sort of thing, since religion does it all the time. I'm not exactly sure why you're aiming the condemnation in my direction...
| DeadX07 wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 18:05 |
Do the research, and start your own journey to seek the truth.
I wish you the best of luck to you if you decide to seek truthful knowledge, and not assumptions and personal belief-based ideas and opinions.
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Which "truth", hmmm? And what's wrong with assumptions and personal beliefs? What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and I don't even need that loophole.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #370670 is a reply to message #362337] |
Thu, 05 February 2009 14:59 |
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NukeIt15
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Religious Debate Thread Phrase Translations, Part 42:
"Open your mind" = Agree with me, you ignorant fuck.
"Seek the truth" = Agree with me, you ignorant fuck.
"You don't have to agree" = Agree with me, you ignorant fuck.
"Some things are unknowable" = Learning stuff is hard, so I don't wanna.
"It's been proven" = I can't prove that I have proof, but I'll say I do anyway so you'll agree with me, you ignorant fuck.
"You only care because..." = I can't go head-to-head with your logic, so I'll call you a hypocrite instead!
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #371039 is a reply to message #370670] |
Sat, 07 February 2009 19:33 |
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Spoony
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"It's a matter of faith, not proof": If I had proof I would spread it far and wide, but I don't, so I will say proof is not applicable in this case, although it is mandatory in your case
"You should respect my beliefs": Stop complaining about the fact we are imposing our beliefs upon you
"It's not meant to be taken literally": We used to take it literally, but then we realised how barbaric it was so some of us (that is to say we humans, not the god) decided it's a metaphor
"God works in mysterious ways": Yes, I suppose it does defy evidence/reason/morality
"Atheism/secularism/evolution is a religion too": I'm a dumbass
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #371058 is a reply to message #362337] |
Sun, 08 February 2009 00:43 |
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NukeIt15
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I've never quite understood what belief in God has to do with belief in life after death. Care to explain that?
Considering that I don't believe in God, yet I do believe in an afterlife, that seems somewhat inconsistent with reality from my perspective.
*edit* | Quote: |
how the hell do names have to do with religion?
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Many names have religious significance in their meaning- we look at names today as simple identifiers, but once upon a time names were meant to describe a person as well as identify them. A person might have been named "Michael" (meaning "who is like God") would be assumed to be a person of great faith, someone close to God. Even most of those names which today do not have a direct translation are in fact derived from earlier words and phrases that were corrupted and changed over time by mistranslation/mispronunciation.
For example, "Tsar" and "Kaiser," the titles of the Russian and German rulers in the early 1900s, were both derived from "Caesar"- which was the name of Rome's first emperor and thereafter the title of every Roman emperor following, passed on to other cultures trough Rome's tremendous influence on the Western world.
Another great example is "Jesus"- which is actually a mispronunciation of a mistranslation of the Aramaic form of what is today the name "Joshua."
So, actually, names have quite a bit to do with religion. Along with quite a lot of other significant things throughout recorded history.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
[Updated on: Sun, 08 February 2009 00:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #371079 is a reply to message #371054] |
Sun, 08 February 2009 06:47 |
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Spoony
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| kikiller wrote on Sun, 08 February 2009 00:03 |
Yep, just living life knowing there's nothing left after death is a healthy way to live.
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Well, I don't "know" there's nothing left after death, anymore than I "know" that gods were invented by humans. It looks very, very likely, though, but I am quite willing to look at the evidence pointing the other way, just as soon as somebody finally comes up with some.
As for "healthy way to live", it absolutely is; this is the only life of whose existence we know for certain, which makes it all the more precious.
| NukeIt15 wrote |
For example, "Tsar" and "Kaiser," the titles of the Russian and German rulers in the early 1900s, were both derived from "Caesar"- which was the name of Rome's first emperor and thereafter the title of every Roman emperor following, passed on to other cultures trough Rome's tremendous influence on the Western world.
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Since you mention the Tsar and the Kaiser, did you happen to read the last religious debate I found myself participating in...?
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #371532 is a reply to message #371079] |
Wed, 11 February 2009 02:19 |
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Spoony
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the fact deadx would be completely unable to answer some pretty straightforward questions is not at all surprising.
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| Re: Proof God DOESN'T Exist [message #371654 is a reply to message #370512] |
Wed, 11 February 2009 15:13 |
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Ma1kel
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| Spoony wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 19:32 |
| DeadX07 wrote on Tue, 03 February 2009 20:25 |
A poke of thought for people who haven't actually done any research: The entire book of Exodus is scientifically proven, with respect to the physical things science can prove.
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Funny you say that, cos the Israeli archeologists tasked to prove the whole flight-from-Egypt business had to eventually admit that the whole thing was almost certainly made up.
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There are no records of the jews ever been enslaved by the egyptians, and the egyptians surely would of documented the enslavement of a whole people.
Dutch to English
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