Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Should English be the official US language?
| Should English be the official US language? [message #362554] |
Wed, 10 December 2008 21:21  |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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Registered: March 2006
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Just somewhat curious. I had a discussion with a friend earlier, and we got onto the topic of whether or not English should be the official language of the US. It wouldn't mean you'd NEED to speak English at every given moment, but in order to become a citizen and the like, it should be required to know English.
Pros: Less lazy immigrants. If they can't speak any English and are in the US, it makes it easier to spot illegals.
Less confusion. A larger majority of people speaking English would just be easier in general.
Less possible crime rate that is a result of illegal immigrants. Probably sounds racist, but too bad. It's true, alot of areas with high amounts of illegals, juuust so happen to have equally high crime rates. Usually, anyways.
Cons: Makes us seem a bit more uptight, and hell, it may very well make America more uptight. Which we certainly don't need to be.
Could possibly mess up foreign relations, as we'd seem like "closed borders" then.
Feel free to throw in other pros/cons to this. I personally think it'd be nice. You'd naturally still be free to speak any language you want after becoming a citizen, but honestly, it should be required to become a citizen.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362575 is a reply to message #362554] |
Wed, 10 December 2008 22:45  |
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Dover
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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Yes please. Otherwise, I demand equal treatment. I am an immigrant from Bulgaria, yet none of the informational material in California is printed in Bulgarian (Outside of the Bulgarian embassy, but that's DUHHHHHH), yet you can see signs/flyers/etc in Spanish almost anywhere in the state that you go.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362577 is a reply to message #362554] |
Wed, 10 December 2008 23:34 |
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NukeIt15
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Having a standard language make sense; it makes everything run smoother when you don't have to translate everything. Since the vast majority of people in the US speak English as their first language, it makes just as much sense that English should be that language. I never got what the big deal was in the first place- most countries in the world today have designated an official language. That doesn't mean other languages are banned from all use, just that one will be chosen for government and business use for the sake of convenience and streamlining. There's nothing racist or bigoted about that- everybody has to know it, bar none. This is coming from someone who is semi-fluent in Spanish, by the way, at least in reading and writing.
On the other hand, I do not think that learning English should be a prerequisite for citizenship. That would be a case of over-regulation; if all of the available services (and, for that matter, the immigration paperwork) were already in English, they'd have to learn the language anyway. To give one example of a potential problem with making English fluency a requirement for citizenship, what happens when a citizen marries a non-citizen who doesn't speak English fluently enough to pass a test yet? What happens if a child is born to citizen parents while out of country, then raised without learning English? Are those people still eligible, or will their citizenship be revoked or denied?
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362582 is a reply to message #362575] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 01:09 |
cnc95fan
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| Dover wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 23:45 |
Yes please. Otherwise, I demand equal treatment. I am an immigrant from Bulgaria, yet none of the informational material in California is printed in Bulgarian (Outside of the Bulgarian embassy, but that's DUHHHHHH), yet you can see signs/flyers/etc in Spanish almost anywhere in the state that you go.
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Well, with all due respect, Spanish is one of the most spoken languages, whilst Bulgarian is not.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362587 is a reply to message #362582] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 01:22 |
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Feetseek
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| cnc95fan wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 00:09 |
| Dover wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 23:45 |
Yes please. Otherwise, I demand equal treatment. I am an immigrant from Bulgaria, yet none of the informational material in California is printed in Bulgarian (Outside of the Bulgarian embassy, but that's DUHHHHHH), yet you can see signs/flyers/etc in Spanish almost anywhere in the state that you go.
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Well, with all due respect, Spanish is one of the most spoken languages, whilst Bulgarian is not.
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Also, since California was only somewhat recently turned over to the United States from Mexico and borders Mexico, Spanish influence is quite strong in California.
"I wumbo, you wumbo, he, she, wombo, wombo, wombo-ing, wobology, the study of wombo, it's first grade SpongeBob" - Patrick Star.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362590 is a reply to message #362582] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 01:58 |
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Dover
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| cnc95fan wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 00:09 |
| Dover wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 23:45 |
Yes please. Otherwise, I demand equal treatment. I am an immigrant from Bulgaria, yet none of the informational material in California is printed in Bulgarian (Outside of the Bulgarian embassy, but that's DUHHHHHH), yet you can see signs/flyers/etc in Spanish almost anywhere in the state that you go.
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Well, with all due respect, Spanish is one of the most spoken languages, whilst Bulgarian is not.
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OPPRESSION BY THE MAJORITY I HAVE RIGHTS
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362599 is a reply to message #362554] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 04:29 |
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u6795
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I agree with NukeIt, having most things require knowledge of English would be enough to force people into learning.
Besides, lots of countries expect you to learn their language before coming. The exception I've seen first hand is many European countries, but this is mostly due to the heavy American presence around military bases. They love it when you make an attempt, though, to speak German or whatever it is where you are.
yeah
[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2008 04:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362613 is a reply to message #362600] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 07:12 |
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Spoony
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It should be required to speak English to become a citizen, just as it should be here. As it is, our government seems to think it would be a better idea to start teaching languages like Urdu in schools instead.
We don't even teach Welsh ffs
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362614 is a reply to message #362554] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 07:13 |
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Goztow
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The same question exists in all countries. Belgium has 3 official languages and still we don't oblige all citizens to know at least one of them ffs.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362631 is a reply to message #362554] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 08:49 |
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R315r4z0r
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No, we need no requirement for any language. Ever.
Just because most people happen to speak English, doesn't mean that it that everyone has to. It's a stupid idea that is nothing but a waste of money and time when it comes to actually teaching it to others.
Not only that, it is pointless because not everyone will learn it anyway.
For example, you will still get illegal aliens. And they are the main people targeted for this. If they are illegals, they wont bother to attend a language class, therefore defeating the entire purpose of the classes.
Not to mention, speaking what ever language you want is another division of freedom of expression and freedom of speech. If I spoke Spanish, I should have every right to chose never to learn English, regardless of how hard I make it for myself and other people. It's my right to do so.
There should be absolutely no language requirements to live in this country. EVER.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2008 08:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362635 is a reply to message #362631] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 09:06 |
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Spoony
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 09:49 |
Just because most people happen to speak English, doesn't mean that it that everyone has to. It's a stupid idea that is nothing but a waste of money and time when it comes to actually teaching it to others.
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Well, the alternative seems to be having to employ an army of interpreters in every other language, for any legal purpose. Isn't that a waste of taxpayer's money?
Even if you think it is not, I would think it is probably more expensive than adding English to the school syllabus. Replace it with religious education, kill two birds with one stone.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362681 is a reply to message #362554] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 13:41 |
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R315r4z0r
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Not what I was getting at. I mean more money than it currently does.
What would you rather spend your money on?
1. Making multi-language signs (cheapest)
2. Training and teaching government registered translators (more expensive)
3. Make sure everyone knows English and of the ones who don't, give them government controlled classes that teach them (most expensive)
It's a waste of money to pay anymore for something people don't need and don't want. Not to mention the costing fees it would take to first make sure everyone knows English through some sort of national exam or something. Oh, and the Constitution and the foundation of the country, lets not forget about that either.
Like I said, if someone is in dire need of communication, they should make it their own business, using their own money to make sure they can communicate. No one else should be involved with that unless they volunteer to be.
It is my right not to want to learn or have anything to do with the English language. It's bad enough that an English class is a mandatory study in schools in America...
What I think SHOULD be put more of a focus on is languages OTHER than English. There should be a broader choice for languages for study in schools. English shouldn't be a mandatory class, what should be is a language class, with many more choices for languages than there are currently offered. That would be more worth the effort and cost. However it is still even more expensive than the things explained above, therefore it will never happen.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2008 13:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362706 is a reply to message #362681] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 15:38 |
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cheesesoda
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Thu, 11 December 2008 15:41 |
Not what I was getting at. I mean more money than it currently does.
What would you rather spend your money on?
1. Making multi-language signs (cheapest)
2. Training and teaching government registered translators (more expensive)
3. Make sure everyone knows English and of the ones who don't, give them government controlled classes that teach them (most expensive)
It's a waste of money to pay anymore for something people don't need and don't want. Not to mention the costing fees it would take to first make sure everyone knows English through some sort of national exam or something. Oh, and the Constitution and the foundation of the country, lets not forget about that either.
Like I said, if someone is in dire need of communication, they should make it their own business, using their own money to make sure they can communicate. No one else should be involved with that unless they volunteer to be.
It is my right not to want to learn or have anything to do with the English language. It's bad enough that an English class is a mandatory study in schools in America...
What I think SHOULD be put more of a focus on is languages OTHER than English. There should be a broader choice for languages for study in schools. English shouldn't be a mandatory class, what should be is a language class, with many more choices for languages than there are currently offered. That would be more worth the effort and cost. However it is still even more expensive than the things explained above, therefore it will never happen.
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You're an idiot and missing the point if you think that the government HAS to spend money on this. The entire point is that the government SHOULDN'T be spending money on any of this. The people that want to get into the United States and are living here should be fluent enough in English to get by. Nobody's asking them to be masters of the language. Hell, if we made that mandatory, we'd have to deport natural born citizens because so many of them don't even know proper English.
We don't have to offer classes to citizens. That's just it. If they want to get by in America, they should know how to speak English. It doesn't involve the government, at all. If you're an ugly, obese slob who can't get a date, should the government then have to pay for you to learn how to lose weight and maybe get plastic surgery so you're even the least bit attractive to other humans? No. Even if it's not your fault that you're like that, it's not the government's responsibility to acclimate you. YOU have to do it on your free time, like you said.
If you need a translator, what makes you think it's the government's job to provide one? If someone needs a translator, they should be forced to get one at their own expense.
Why do people always insist that the government HAS to be a part of something stupid like this? Your argument that signs are the least expensive way to acclimate people is the wrong way to look at it. The government should not be spending ANY money because people are too stupid/stubborn/lazy/arrogant to learn the overwhelming spoken language in the nation.
To further my point, we have plenty of non-English (American, Canadian, UKers, Aussies, Kiwis) people on these forums that type fluent English. Hell, they type a lot more properly than most of the native English speakers on these forums. THEY DON'T EVEN LIVE IN ENGLISH-SPEAKING NATIONS. If they can learn it, what is so fucking hard about making people who LIVE in the United States learn English?
Not to mention that English is the second most widely spoken language on the planet.
Lastly, if I move to a foreign country where English is not an official language, I'm not going to bitch and moan about not being acclimated. I made the choice to move. I realized that when I moved, they didn't speak English. If I get lucky to find someone fluent in English while I'm there, GREAT, but I won't expect it. I'll have to learn the language if I want to get by, and that's the way it should be.
whoa.
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| Re: Should English be the official US language? [message #362728 is a reply to message #362554] |
Thu, 11 December 2008 18:15 |
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NukeIt15
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| Quote: |
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll
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QFT.
You can't expect perfection. Everyone has their own manner of speaking, and English is one of those languages that absorbs bits and pieces of any other language it touches. If anything, that makes English an ideal common language- you can go right on using your own expressions and nobody will so much as look sideways at you for it as long as they got the gist of the conversation.
And before anybody pulls out that detestable "colonial legacy" card, Latin America got Spanish and Portugese the same way the US got English. A language is a means of communication; while it serves as a medium for transmitting culture it is not a culture in and of itself unless it grew out of the culture which uses it. Spanish is no more 'worthy' a tongue than English in this regard- or does someone out there honestly believe that the Aztecs, the Mayans, and the Incas were all greeting each other with friendly "Holas" before the first Conqistadors showed up on their doorstep?
Fact: most of the Spanish-speaking immigrants in this country did not immigrate from Spain.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 December 2008 18:16] Report message to a moderator |
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