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Re: Why did you vote for Obama? [message #362395 is a reply to message #362388]

Wed, 10 December 2008 07:35

Spoony
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Registered: January 2006

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Darkknight wrote on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:24

And what if he is plain wrong when he dies he turns to dirt. What if your wrong Spoony? What then?

Do you actually read what the people you're arguing with are saying?

You seem extremely reluctant to address the fact that you were absolutely dead wrong about almost every single thing you've said so far, but it'd be nice if you at least made the token effort to read my explanation as to why I'm not a Christian. I have, after all, made it quite plain in several posts.

Quote:

Finally, I would repeat something I have said several times already. I am open to the idea that there may be a God. If you prove to me there is a God and that every word of the Bible was true, I would accept it. But I would not worship him and I would not become a Christian. I have already said that the main reason I am not a Christian isn't because I find it all very difficult to believe (although that's part of it). The main reason is that I find many of its moral teachings absolutely despicable. If the Bible was true, God would be the most staggeringly evil entity that ever existed. But then, unlike you I've actually read the Bible.

Quote:

It's an absolutely disgusting moral concept. Whether he was a man or a God or the son of God makes no difference. The idea that I can be forgiven thanks to the torture and execution of someone else is DESPICABLE. Get that word, DESPICABLE. Assuming the whole crucifixion business happened at all (a generous assumption), I would rather be unforgiven than gain redemption through the punishment of somebody else.

Quote:

See, I believe sins or crimes or whatever you want to call them can be forgiven, but only if you freely accept your error and you, you yourself, are willing to make amends. I can barely express my revulsion at the doctrine of Christ dying for our sins; there simply aren't words in the English language capable of expressing it.

Quote:

Not only that, but if I reject this barbaric drivel on moral grounds (which I do), I'm told that I have an eternity of torture in store for me after I die. And you want to teach this to children and call it morality. I'll take my chances, though... like I said, if the price of my redemption is the torture and execution of somebody else, I'd rather be unforgiven. So who's the better man, you or I?

Quote:

Actually, maybe the 'fact' Christ was God (whatever sense that makes) does make a difference. A quick read of the Old Testament (again, assuming it's true) shows God to be the most evil entity that ever existed. Maybe the crucifixion was punishment for everything God did, albeit a relatively lenient one.

Quote:

What kind of moral teaching has it that you can be punished for a sin committed by someone else? Again, assuming the Adam business happened (STAGGERINGLY unlikely), how moral is it to hold a remote descendant responsible for his crime (a relatively minor one at that) Like I said, the point is made again and again in the Bible.

Quote:

My objection to Christianity is not just that I find it very difficult to believe (even as a child, and like I said it was "taught" to me with the same certainty as what was being taught in, say, physics), it's that it contains moral teachings that I find absolutely appalling. See: vicarious redemption, inheritance of punishment, the ghastly idea that one can be punished for an eternity after death, etc.

There you have it. It's not just about the fantastical improbability of Christianity and the absolute lack of evidence for it; it's also that I find many of its central teachings to be absolutely appalling.

Christ died for my sins. Sounds great, but if you stop and think about it for a moment, it's horrific. If I commit a crime I'll make amends for it myself, thank you. If the price of forgiveness is the torture and execution of somebody else (be he a man or god or son of god), I don't want forgiveness.

It gets better; the concept that you can be punished for a crime committed by someone else. This point is made again and again in the Bible. For example, in the Old Testament God rants again and again that punishment for sins will also be visited on successive generations, such as those breaking the Commandments; he also proclaims that some people can be disqualified from "the congregation of the Lord" based on the sins of their parents, such as if a child was born out of wedlock, for which the child itself can hardly be blamed. Another example: original sin, the idea that we inherit the sin of Adam (a relatively minor sin at that). Need more examples? The collective guilt imposed upon "the Jews" for deicide. Not just the Jews who were there at the time of the Crucifixion; Christianity has for the last two thousand years held all Jews responsible, without which doctrine there very probably would not have been a Holocaust. Islam does the same thing to Jews, but for a different reason (encountering Mohammed and deciding he was not the true prophet). Again, this is morally despicable and I want no part of it.

Like I've said, I am well aware of the teaching that if I reject this barbarism on moral grounds (and I do), then I'm going to hell when I die. So here are my choices.
A. I can stick by my moral ideas, and risk ending up in hell for it, as unlikely as the existence of hell seems.
B. I can abandon my moral ideas (and all reason), and subscribe to an ideology which morally disgusts me, out of self-interested fear.

I'll take A, thank you.

By the way, I think the world would be a much better place if everyone else thought along the same lines - i.e. don't hold people responsible for crimes they didn't commit, make amends for your own 'sins' yourself - although unlike Christianity I don't plan on bribing people into my way of thinking by making promises of heaven I can't keep, or bullying them into my way of thinking by promises of horrific, everlasting torture.

That's the long answer. If you want the quick answer (given your tendency not to read what the person you're arguing with is saying), then:
Darkknight: "And what if he is plain wrong when he dies he turns to dirt. What if your wrong Spoony? What then?"
Spoony: "The same thing that happens to you and Jecht if you're wrong about Islam."

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		Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 05:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 06 November 2008 15:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Thu, 06 November 2008 07:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: z310 on Thu, 06 November 2008 09:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: AmunRa on Fri, 07 November 2008 15:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 09 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 10:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 11:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 09 November 2008 12:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Sun, 09 November 2008 13:19
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 09 November 2008 14:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 09 November 2008 15:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: TD on Mon, 10 November 2008 22:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 06:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 11 November 2008 19:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 12 November 2008 03:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 12 November 2008 06:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 12 November 2008 13:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 11 November 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Thu, 13 November 2008 01:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 13 November 2008 05:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 09 November 2008 18:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: _SSnipe_ on Tue, 11 November 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ethenal on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 09 November 2008 19:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Mon, 10 November 2008 05:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 11:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 10 November 2008 12:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Barack Obama on Mon, 10 November 2008 20:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: JPNOD on Sat, 15 November 2008 02:37
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 15 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Sun, 16 November 2008 22:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: bisen11 on Mon, 17 November 2008 00:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 18 November 2008 20:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 19 November 2008 10:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 19 November 2008 12:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: MGamer on Wed, 19 November 2008 19:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: CarrierII on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 10:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 19 November 2008 05:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: luv2pb on Thu, 20 November 2008 14:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 23 November 2008 11:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Sun, 23 November 2008 12:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 06:05
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 24 November 2008 08:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 24 November 2008 11:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Tue, 25 November 2008 20:46
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 07:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Wed, 26 November 2008 13:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Mon, 24 November 2008 14:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 24 November 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Tue, 25 November 2008 06:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 25 November 2008 10:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 26 November 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 10:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 14:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: [NE]Fobby[GEN] on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:30
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Wed, 26 November 2008 16:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Berkut on Wed, 26 November 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Fri, 28 November 2008 07:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Rocko on Fri, 28 November 2008 21:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 29 November 2008 00:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 05:32
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 07:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 29 November 2008 11:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 30 November 2008 08:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Tue, 02 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GoArmy44 on Wed, 03 December 2008 22:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sat, 29 November 2008 20:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Sun, 30 November 2008 14:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 01 December 2008 05:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 01 December 2008 07:33
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 05:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 06:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:42
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 30 November 2008 15:22
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 30 November 2008 16:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Tue, 02 December 2008 20:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Nunya on Tue, 02 December 2008 12:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 02 December 2008 13:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 07:23
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 08:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 07:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Fri, 05 December 2008 12:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:00
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Sat, 06 December 2008 23:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sat, 06 December 2008 15:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 04 December 2008 06:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 03 December 2008 12:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Thu, 04 December 2008 11:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Fri, 05 December 2008 01:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: GEORGE ZIMMER on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 13:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Thu, 04 December 2008 14:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 08:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Fri, 05 December 2008 10:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Fri, 05 December 2008 14:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Sat, 06 December 2008 09:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 08:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 18:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Starbuzzz on Sun, 07 December 2008 23:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 03:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:18
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:49
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Sun, 07 December 2008 09:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ryan3k on Sun, 07 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Sun, 07 December 2008 12:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 04:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 18:17
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 06:51
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 08:55
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 15:07
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:02
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 06:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:25
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 22:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Thu, 11 December 2008 01:06
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Thu, 11 December 2008 06:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Thu, 11 December 2008 08:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 12:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Wed, 10 December 2008 13:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:41
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:36
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 19:53
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 07:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:11
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:57
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 10:40
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Spoony on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:14
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 20:52
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 04:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:04
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:15
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:44
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:31
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Mon, 08 December 2008 21:54
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Mon, 08 December 2008 22:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 00:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:35
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: DarkKnight on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:38
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:20
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 06:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 09:59
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Herr Surth on Tue, 09 December 2008 11:47
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:09
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Tue, 09 December 2008 16:16
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 07:10
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 10 December 2008 18:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 20:48
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:08
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:34
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: liquidv2 on Wed, 10 December 2008 21:43
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Jecht on Thu, 11 December 2008 11:56
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 17:13
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: NukeIt15 on Tue, 16 December 2008 18:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Fabian on Tue, 16 December 2008 23:58
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Dover on Wed, 17 December 2008 00:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:03
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 08:24
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 10:45
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:21
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:26
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: nikki6ixx on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:27
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:28
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: u6795 on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:01
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: cheesesoda on Wed, 17 December 2008 13:39
		Re: Why did you vote for Obama? By: Ma1kel on Wed, 17 December 2008 14:03

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