Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Fixing... Points?
| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350474 is a reply to message #350472] |
Thu, 11 September 2008 09:21   |
XCorupt69
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Location: Quebec
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| Cabal8616 wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 12:18 |
I guess blue hell shouldn't be fixed either cuz Westwood didn't notice it
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too bad that didn't come after with jonwil's custom scripts which screwed with gfx stuff causing it, please don't talk if you don't know.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350483 is a reply to message #350471] |
Thu, 11 September 2008 10:11 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 18:15 |
| sadukar09 wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:35 |
Not to mention Spoony already PMed a former Westwood employee, who also thinks it's a bug.
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Nice lie, that was only that "LordMot" guy, who like crimson was choosen at random to just try the game. The fact he had no idea, nor even noticed it AND WAS AN OFFICIAL WESTWOOD beta tester for this game PROOVES:
a)westwood didn't notice it, therefore was not fixed because it was not significant.
b)when finally released it and the many hours of beta testing (crimson I guess can atest to this?), the gameplay was deemed fair.
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| "lordmot" |
Anyone remember me? I worked on Renegade and SS at Westwood...
I was the online lead for Renegade, and prior to that Sole Survivor.
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Right...
And AFAIK bluehell also happens without jonwil's scripts...
Why not replace an obvious bug by something else on servers that want to keep the kind of games you describe "intresting / motivating". If a refinery dies, then keep the 2 creds per second and just have the harvester drop fall away. Or make it 1 credit per second. Isn't it a bit ridiculous that a server owner would need to rely on an obvious bug to do something he could do so much better himself?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350495 is a reply to message #350471] |
Thu, 11 September 2008 12:17 |
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sadukar09
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 11:15 |
| sadukar09 wrote on Tue, 09 September 2008 18:35 |
Not to mention Spoony already PMed a former Westwood employee, who also thinks it's a bug.
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Nice lie, that was only that "LordMot" guy, who like crimson was choosen at random to just try the game. The fact he had no idea, nor even noticed it AND WAS AN OFFICIAL WESTWOOD beta tester for this game PROOVES:
a)westwood didn't notice it, therefore was not fixed because it was not significant.
b)when finally released it and the many hours of beta testing (crimson I guess can atest to this?), the gameplay was deemed fair.
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Ok, let's fix blue hell for everyone else but you, and make it happen more often too! Westwood intended blue hell amirite?
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350509 is a reply to message #346858] |
Thu, 11 September 2008 13:39 |
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Crimson
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Agreed. LordMot was a Westwood employee, not a beta tester. As a beta tester, I can attest to the fact that none of us noticed the bug in time for it to be fixed. That could have a lot to do with the fact that most of the beta testers were involved in playing the game, not trying ridiculous things like sniping the harvester.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350522 is a reply to message #350474] |
Thu, 11 September 2008 14:56 |
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R315r4z0r
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 12:21 |
too bad that didn't come after with jonwil's custom scripts which screwed with gfx stuff causing it, please don't talk if you don't know.
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...Are you implying that the blue hell bug is a graphical glitch caused because of the scripts?
There are so many things wrong with that..
First of all... Blue Hell IS NOT a graphical bug. It is a physics bug that happens when a vehicle dashes off the map at immeasurable speeds, bypassing all physical collisions and flying into oblivion.
Second of all, scripts don't mess with graphics. Think of a script in a game like a script in a play. They are simply bits of logic that dictate what happens in game. Shaders are what adjusts the graphics and those are a totally separate project. Just because they were released at the same time doesn't mean they are the same thing. And not to mention they are a relatively recent addition to Renegade, where Blue hell has been here since the beginning.
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 12:21 |
please don't talk if you don't know.
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| Homey wrote on Thu, 11 September 2008 17:34 |
As long as I can remember people shot the harv at the start of the game.
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This is true, however not with Ramjet rifles.
[Updated on: Thu, 11 September 2008 14:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350655 is a reply to message #346858] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 17:47 |
XCorupt69
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Razor, thanks for clearing up the fact that you don't even know what it is. The thing were you collide/get stuck and end up spinning in outerspace is something completely different, im talking about BLUE HELL, were the screen just turns blue, you can still move using the keyboard, and if you look like 180 degree's in the opposite direction (or other random spots away from your looking to get it), it goes back to normal), sometimes you can also fix it by hitting esc, then exit it just to clear the screen.
@goztow, its happened since CP1, but wayyyy more commonly with CP2 (custom scripts 2.x), and ESPECIALLY with that ren3d stuff which IS now integrated into scripts 3.0+, but before then it was an addon released approx same time as 2.9.2.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350659 is a reply to message #350655] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 17:53 |
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sadukar09
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Fri, 12 September 2008 19:47 |
Razor, thanks for clearing up the fact that you don't even know what it is. The thing were you collide/get stuck and end up spinning in outerspace is something completely different, im talking about BLUE HELL, were the screen just turns blue, you can still move using the keyboard, and if you look like 180 degree's in the opposite direction (or other random spots away from your looking to get it), it goes back to normal), sometimes you can also fix it by hitting esc, then exit it just to clear the screen.
@goztow, its happened since CP1, but wayyyy more commonly with CP2 (custom scripts 2.x), and ESPECIALLY with that ren3d stuff which IS now integrated into scripts 3.0+, but before then it was an addon released approx same time as 2.9.2.
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...Are you fucking stupid? You argue with more bullshit than that s0meskunk guy, except more retardedly, at least he tries, you just pull shit out of your ass.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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[Updated on: Fri, 12 September 2008 17:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350662 is a reply to message #350655] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 18:35 |
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R315r4z0r
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Fri, 12 September 2008 20:47 |
Razor, thanks for clearing up the fact that you don't even know what it is. The thing were you collide/get stuck and end up spinning in outerspace is something completely different, im talking about BLUE HELL, were the screen just turns blue, you can still move using the keyboard, and if you look like 180 degree's in the opposite direction (or other random spots away from your looking to get it), it goes back to normal), sometimes you can also fix it by hitting esc, then exit it just to clear the screen
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No, that's called a VIS error and that is caused by fault of the mapper who made the map, not some scripts or shaders. Blue hell is when you fly off the map in a vehicle spinning uncontrollably in a blue abyss.
It has happened since the game was released and when ever people make a map with an incomplete VIS system. It has nothing to do with scripts and/or shaders nor does it have anything to do with the core patches.
Don't argue with me on this, you are just making yourself look bad by arguing things that are completely wrong.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 September 2008 19:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350665 is a reply to message #350655] |
Fri, 12 September 2008 19:12 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
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| XCorupt69 wrote on Fri, 12 September 2008 19:47 |
Razor, thanks for clearing up the fact that you don't even know what it is. The thing were you collide/get stuck and end up spinning in outerspace is something completely different, im talking about BLUE HELL, were the screen just turns blue, you can still move using the keyboard, and if you look like 180 degree's in the opposite direction (or other random spots away from your looking to get it), it goes back to normal), sometimes you can also fix it by hitting esc, then exit it just to clear the screen.
@goztow, its happened since CP1, but wayyyy more commonly with CP2 (custom scripts 2.x), and ESPECIALLY with that ren3d stuff which IS now integrated into scripts 3.0+, but before then it was an addon released approx same time as 2.9.2.
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Just because two things are named the same for technical reasons doesn't mean they are the same thing.
rend3d9 was a totally different project written by a totally different programmer, Scorpio9a. It's purpose was to provide a complete Direct3D8 implementation that used Direct3D9 under the hood.
The d3d8.dll which scripts.dll uses was written by jonwil and myself; It has the sole purpose of handling the Direct3D8 calls Renegade makes until shaders.dll has a chance to take over. It was only called d3d8.dll for technical reasons...
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350685 is a reply to message #350681] |
Sat, 13 September 2008 00:28 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
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I've been mapping for Renegade for nearly 5 years. VIS is a system that takes polygons that are unseen by the player (for example the interior of a structure when you are outside of it) and hides them to increase the performance of the game.
However, since the game automatically generates the VIS data, it doesn't always get all the camera angles set up 100% correctly. Sometimes the game will think there is something that isn't seen and should be hidden even though it is right in plain sight. This is what I was calling a VIS error. When things on the map disappear because the game thinks you are in a spot that you shouldn't be able to see them. However, these errors can be easily fixed if the mapper takes a VIS sample in Level Editor of the target camera angle, which it then recomputes it into showing what should be shown from that angle. The problem with this is that there are hundreds of these errors when VIS is first set up, and to a mapper who isn't that attentive, these sorts of errors will unfortunately make it to the final version of the map.
That is why if you somehow get an orca onto a non-flying map like Under or Field, you will see a bunch of things on the map disappear at certain angles. Because VIS wasn't set up from any angles that can't be reached by ground vehicles. The fact if they are blue errors really depends on the time of day the map takes place in. The same goes for blue hell, as it isn't always blue but rather representative of the time of day in the map.
So this error is a mapper error, not a scripts flaw. Scripts have absolutely nothing to do with any visuals in Renegade in any way, shape, or form.
[Updated on: Sat, 13 September 2008 00:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350691 is a reply to message #350689] |
Sat, 13 September 2008 01:44 |
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sadukar09
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sat, 13 September 2008 03:10 |
just seems a little strange to me that it didn't happen once in over two years but managed to happen several times in the few weeks i played on this computer
if you're sure then i'll take your word for it, just an odd coincidence
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Could be a lot of fault fan maps on your computer.
| Quote: |
[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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| Quote: |
[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #350899 is a reply to message #346858] |
Mon, 15 September 2008 06:40 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
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VIS is what Renegade uses to, in a sense, "un-render" something. It's a tool used by mappers to make sure that things you can't see, aren't rendered, and therefore will take up less memory, making stuff run faster.
For example, if you're behind point A, and point B is behind point A (In front of you), but point A blocks you from seeing it, point B will not be rendered via VIS.
Sometimes though, it's not perfect, and the detection of what people see can cause them to still not render something, even if they DO see it.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Fixing... Points? [message #351079 is a reply to message #351077] |
Tue, 16 September 2008 18:58 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Tue, 16 September 2008 21:56 |
Also, one more thing, VIS uses the rendering of the map from the game itself, it does not matter what kind of hardware you are running. VIS errors you get on a map on 1 computer will come up on other computers as well.
But in order to find these errors you must be in specific spots facing the camera in a specific directions. So it is really more up to chance than anything.
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It uses a special software renderer in LevelEdit (which is why it takes so long to complete)
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