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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #345997 is a reply to message #345981] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 16:15   |
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Chuck Norris
Messages: 312
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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There's obviously going to be disagreements, but if we can prevent disagreements from becoming large arguments, all the better for our chances. Nothing immature about disagreeing, but not handling those disagreements (and instead arguing) is what causes the problems. So we all know we'll not all agree on everything, so we need to come to an agreement above that. We need alot of support. If the community is split, EA won't budge. We all think Renegade is among the best, and it's an unfinished game, so this could be the first step towards finishing it ourselves (okay, that may be overstating it for now). Remember the goal of this. It's to better the great game of Renegade, and one of the prime focuses is bugs. I say we agree to this. If something is identified as a bug, glitch, or exploit, and it's either common sense or can be proven it is such, I think we should all agree to add it to the fix (if possible) list no matter what (unless it's a seriously insignificant bug) and not argue about what we want, because that guarantees fighting. A bug is a bug and should be corrected. Something that wasn't intended to be should not be, and that's what the patch is about. The points fix is an exception, but I still say make it mandatory and leave the exclusion of the fix for a separate "points unfix.dll" so that it at least has an alternative since it is such a big focus for everyone, but it is technically a bug so it should be fixed within the patch itself. We need to work together and agree to fix what needs fixed, otherwise, EVERYTHING is going to turn into an argument. A few features are fine, but save the features and possible balance changes for a separate patch.
P.S. I'm not trying to sound like I'm trying to make any decisions here, but merely offer up a proposition. If we can agree to the bold, we'll probably have less arguments.
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346006 is a reply to message #345981] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 17:13 |
Jamie or NuneGa
Messages: 954
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 0
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From what I see there is a lot of open opposition towards some fixes yet you guys imo aren't listening you are just doing as you please.
Why can't you make all fixes server side optional... the xwis wide ladder isn't really that important to most people.
Jamie is a guys name in Europe...
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346007 is a reply to message #345981] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 17:16 |
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If something can be identified as a bug in renegade, I for one intend to do everything I can to get it fixed, even if its not necessarily all that big.
Jonathan Wilson aka Jonwil
Creator and Lead Coder of the Custom scripts.dll
Renegade Engine Guru
Creator and Lead Coder of TT.DLL
Official member of Tiberian Technologies
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346026 is a reply to message #346006] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 21:08 |
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cmatt42
Messages: 2057
Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Nune wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 19:13 |
From what I see there is a lot of open opposition towards some fixes yet you guys imo aren't listening you are just doing as you please.
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So if Westwood were somehow magically reassembled to make a Renegade patch with all the same fixes and 'forced' it on you (that's called a 'patch' by the way because it's BROKEN and needs to be FIXED), you'd also be completely against it. Am I right? Or are you against all forms of fixes? If that's the case, go play 1.0.
GunKataGaming.net
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346029 is a reply to message #346026] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 21:16 |
blly
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2007
Location: ONLINE ALL DAY EVERY DAY ...
Karma: 0
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| cmatt42 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:08 |
| Nune wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 19:13 |
From what I see there is a lot of open opposition towards some fixes yet you guys imo aren't listening you are just doing as you please.
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So if Westwood were somehow magically reassembled to make a Renegade patch with all the same fixes and 'forced' it on you (that's called a 'patch' by the way because it's BROKEN and needs to be FIXED), you'd also be completely against it. Am I right? Or are you against all forms of fixes? If that's the case, go play 1.0.
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wow you sounded so dumb in that post. honestly. it was the dumbest thing anyone could have said lol.
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346034 is a reply to message #346030] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 21:41 |
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TruYuri
Messages: 97
Registered: June 2008
Karma: 0
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| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:17 |
that's fine, but does that mean i am forced to play with your changes? it's like you've made the decision for me with me having no say in it, and that doesn't seem fair at all
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I don't see a difference between this and a patch for any other game, other than this is a patch made by fans, but if it gets pushed by EA, the same rules as an official patch made by them will apply.
| liquidv2 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:32 |
i can agree with that about some things but not others, for obvious reasons
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Obvious reasons? What reasons? If it's a bug that was not intended and in the end brings a negative value to the game, I see no reason why it should not be fixed.
[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 21:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346049 is a reply to message #345981] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 23:34 |
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Chuck Norris
Messages: 312
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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Points fix isn't what this topic is for. It's about the disagreements that exist, and I offered up a solution. If we sit there and argue about what bugs we want or don't want, we'll have people arguing at every turn. Bugs are not meant to be, so if something is a bug, it's not meant to be and should be fixed. We should fix all bugs regardless of if we're used to them or like them, as that is not how Renegade was ever intended to be by Westwood. Tiberium Technologies are all highly skilled coders, some of the best in the community, and they're doing their best to identify and correct bugs. It's not that they're not listening to you, but some of us are being a little stubborn.
The specific bug everyone is whining about makes sense to be fixed from BOTH a coding and gameplay point of view. If Westwood was still around, they'd probably have fixed it too (we sort of have an unofficial word from an ex-Westwood employee saying it is most likely a bug).
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 23:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346051 is a reply to message #345981] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 23:40 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9738
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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People still don't seem to realise that the point fix problem is solved: alternative solutions will be tested in beta and if they aren't accepted, a pointunfix.dll will be created so servers can choose to disable it.
For all the rest: I see a small minority of people that's afraid of change through fixes that seem perfectly logical through how the code works/how most people think. I've actually seen three people really disagree on the right click tank fix so far, and none of them gave any rational arguments.
I also have no indication that there's a large amount of things that people disagree on. The pointfix disagreement has found a solution, it seems to me.
Last but not least: this game has always been modded a lot. Look at all the different kind of servers. Moreover, an auto download feature will be included to enable client side changes.
If some servers cannot agree on the way some stuff has been fixed, then they can and will mod their server to do it a different way. TT enables this option thanks to the auto download.
Oh and Nunega, what you mean is: "you aren't listening to me", I think...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2008 00:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346062 is a reply to message #346029] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 00:00 |
rhuarc
Messages: 57
Registered: February 2007
Karma: 0
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| blly wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:16 |
| cmatt42 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:08 |
| Nune wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 19:13 |
From what I see there is a lot of open opposition towards some fixes yet you guys imo aren't listening you are just doing as you please.
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So if Westwood were somehow magically reassembled to make a Renegade patch with all the same fixes and 'forced' it on you (that's called a 'patch' by the way because it's BROKEN and needs to be FIXED), you'd also be completely against it. Am I right? Or are you against all forms of fixes? If that's the case, go play 1.0.
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wow you sounded so dumb in that post. honestly. it was the dumbest thing anyone could have said lol.
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actually no blly, if ww had made it years ago no one would be bitching tbh, did anyone about the 1.037 patch??
or any patch for any game.
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346073 is a reply to message #346029] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 01:58 |
a000clown
Messages: 363
Registered: May 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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| blly wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 00:16 |
| cmatt42 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 23:08 |
| Nune wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 19:13 |
From what I see there is a lot of open opposition towards some fixes yet you guys imo aren't listening you are just doing as you please.
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So if Westwood were somehow magically reassembled to make a Renegade patch with all the same fixes and 'forced' it on you (that's called a 'patch' by the way because it's BROKEN and needs to be FIXED), you'd also be completely against it. Am I right? Or are you against all forms of fixes? If that's the case, go play 1.0.
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wow you sounded so dumb in that post. honestly. it was the dumbest thing anyone could have said lol.
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Actually, I completely agree with cmatt42.
If the patch was being developed by people hired by EA or Westwood the bugs would inevitably be fixed whether the community agrees or not, the same way the members of TT are fixing bugs.
You should all just be thankful we have these dedicated people who are putting so much effort into trying to make this a better game and quit your bitching.
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| Re: Quit fixing stuff that no one wants you to fix [message #346075 is a reply to message #345981] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 02:09 |
Reaver11
Messages: 888
Registered: April 2007
Karma: 1
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If something is clearly a bug I would say go a head and fix it.
The pct buying from behind is clearly a bug, although it might alter the way Renegade is played now and that is where people are affraid of. I myself watch what is happening.
That is also why I asked if TT could make a display, in a locked topic or on a site. Just a little changelog table.
I got a reaction of stealtheye there, that a fullchangelog is very difficult to make. Which is perfectly understandeble. But I did like to see somekind of changelog appart from scrolling through this forums to look for them.
Even if it is just a minor changelog.
issue----------Changed to
pcts-----------You can no longer buy from behind
pointfix-------(Fill in)
etc------------etc
It doesnt have to have a list of the code where you fix a little byte that was bugging the game. I dont expect it to be 100% correct, I just want to see what you are fixing in general-line.
So people get an idea what you guys are fixing appart from the big issues (pointfix,bluehell)
[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2008 02:10] Report message to a moderator |
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