Home » Tiberian Technologies / Blackhand Studios » Tiberian Technologies Forum » Some Fixes, Some Ideas
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346009 is a reply to message #342538] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 17:27   |
StealthEye
Messages: 2518
Registered: May 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
 
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About people mentioning it would no longer be possible to make mods to shoot from a single barrel on secondary fire: it would still be possible. You just need to define the secondary muzzle bones and it will work.
If the flamer was intended to shoot from one muzzle only on secondary fire, it would have had secondary fire muzzles. Relying on logic like this is a very unlogical decision for Westwood to make. If they really wanted this to happen, they would have made a weapon setting for it or they would have defined the secondary muzzles. Not coded weird logic to sortof guess what they want. The idea behind the code is clearly: if the secondary muzzle is not defined, use the primary muzzle's position. The code was clearly broken.
Also, don't claim things about "half of the people want this" or "the majority want that", because you really don't know. Most people probably don't even know about the bug, and even if they do there is little chance you know about them or their opinions.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 17:28] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346012 is a reply to message #346009] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 17:52 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| StealthEye wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 17:27 |
About people mentioning it would no longer be possible to make mods to shoot from a single barrel on secondary fire: it would still be possible. You just need to define the secondary muzzle bones and it will work.
If the flamer was intended to shoot from one muzzle only on secondary fire, it would have had secondary fire muzzles. Relying on logic like this is a very unlogical decision for Westwood to make. If they really wanted this to happen, they would have made a weapon setting for it or they would have defined the secondary muzzles. Not coded weird logic to sortof guess what they want. The idea behind the code is clearly: if the secondary muzzle is not defined, use the primary muzzle's position. The code was clearly broken.
Also, don't claim things about "half of the people want this" or "the majority want that", because you really don't know. Most people probably don't even know about the bug, and even if they do there is little chance you know about them or their opinions.
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dont listen to what people want...if its broken fix it THE RIGHT WAY
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346020 is a reply to message #345985] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 18:50 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Saberhawk wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 17:10 |
^ This secondary mode? It remains perfectly usable
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Listen, im not going to be rude about it, but
a)nobody knows wtf that means (and actually the math even may be wrong), and matching math->gameplay when right click flamer and mrl work perfectly ingame and don't unbalance shit.
b)right click is fair and makes logical sense, it ads a fire mode to 2 useful vehicles, while at the same time not unbalancing gameplay.
c)if you insist on doing something about it, I guess I would accept the animation being redone.....
d)most of the community doesn't support the idea of "fixing it", so I hope you guys already haven't, (kiss, keep it simple silly, dont fix what isn't broken...)
Now im worried about fixes that people won't agree with concerning gameplay that will make EA retract from the idea behind the TT patch because it isn't supported by the community making it all go to waste, atleast for v1 of the patch, as simple as possible we can discuss everything else (points fix, right click, pt stuff) later, so atleast pretend to EA that we are semi-in agreement.
My: Videos/Website/Forums
[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 18:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346028 is a reply to message #346020] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 21:15 |
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cmatt42
Messages: 2057
Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 20:50 |
d)most of the community doesn't support the idea of "fixing it"
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And where are they?
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dont fix what isn't broken
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Except it is broken and therefore needs to be fixed. Besides, it doesn't make sense that a barrel of a flamethrower can magically do twice the damage. Thus, broken.
GunKataGaming.net
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346045 is a reply to message #346020] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 22:52 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 20:50 |
| Saberhawk wrote on Sun, 10 August 2008 17:10 |
^ This secondary mode? It remains perfectly usable
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Listen, im not going to be rude about it, but
a)nobody knows wtf that means (and actually the math even may be wrong), and matching math->gameplay when right click flamer and mrl work perfectly ingame and don't unbalance shit.
b)right click is fair and makes logical sense, it ads a fire mode to 2 useful vehicles, while at the same time not unbalancing gameplay.
c)if you insist on doing something about it, I guess I would accept the animation being redone.....
d)most of the community doesn't support the idea of "fixing it", so I hope you guys already haven't, (kiss, keep it simple silly, dont fix what isn't broken...)
Now im worried about fixes that people won't agree with concerning gameplay that will make EA retract from the idea behind the TT patch because it isn't supported by the community making it all go to waste, atleast for v1 of the patch, as simple as possible we can discuss everything else (points fix, right click, pt stuff) later, so atleast pretend to EA that we are semi-in agreement.
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Those two fields define what gets shot out, how fast, etc from primary and secondary fire for a weapon. They are the same. The math isn't wrong. The animation isn't wrong. The code that *guesses* where the secondary barrels are did not account for the fact that you could have both primary barrels defined. It is clearly a "logic" bug (as in a not fully defined logic, not a typo or other type of bug). The fact that the secondary fire is defined *exactly* like primary fire on the flame tank weapon proves this. The fact that the emitters show up at the correct locations proves this as well.
[Updated on: Sun, 10 August 2008 22:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346046 is a reply to message #342538] |
Sun, 10 August 2008 23:22 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9744
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Trooprm, I find you to be incredibly rude. ?Not only you do not even attempt to understand what the problem is, you also don't even read the posts made by the TT-coders. If you did, you wouldn't have made the comment in "d)".
It's also very rude of you to try and take these people in hostage by basically stating "if you don't do it my way, I'll do what I can to make the patch fail".
Until now I thought you were somehow a bit "misunderstood" by many people, but I seem to know better now.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346080 is a reply to message #342538] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 02:20 |
Reaver11
Messages: 888
Registered: April 2007
Karma: 1
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Colonel |
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Yep Saberhawk is right here, I actually missed the fact of the rocketemplacement here.
Only I don't think the flamer is an easy done job to fix it. I tried to fix it myself by adding an MuzzleB0 which is easy but the flamer emitter stil gets played from both the muzzles and when I set the 2nd fire to something different it will work perfectly.
Better a fixed animation the new way or the old way. Because it takes most average renegade people(I took me also quite some time to realize it was no joke) quite some time to notice it actually exsists.
[Updated on: Mon, 11 August 2008 02:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346154 is a reply to message #346093] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 11:24 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| Caveman wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 03:47 |
You can access the PT from outside the AGT on field. Quite easily I might add.
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advantage =/
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346243 is a reply to message #342538] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 18:00 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Ok, let me review:
1)Right click flamer/mrl give no kind of "advantage" whatsoever
2)they add a gameplay tactic
So the question is, even if it is "mathematically" wrong matching that to gameplay doesn't make sense especially because of the 2 points mentioned above so why remove it?
Its the same issue with the points fix, the code might be mathematically wrong, but really WHO FUCKING CARES, ingame gameplay is balanced, if it wasn't westwood would have noticed and fixed it themselves during beta and after release in the patches BUT THEY DIDN'T. And this is in no way personal, I, like the majority of the community disagree with a few of these "fixes".
My: Videos/Website/Forums
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346245 is a reply to message #346243] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 18:13 |
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saberhawk
Messages: 1068
Registered: January 2006
Location: ::1
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| trooprm02 wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 20:00 |
Ok, let me review:
1)Right click flamer/mrl give no kind of "advantage" whatsoever
2)they add a gameplay tactic
So the question is, even if it is "mathematically" wrong matching that to gameplay doesn't make sense especially because of the 2 points mentioned above so why remove it?
Its the same issue with the points fix, the code might be mathematically wrong, but really WHO FUCKING CARES, ingame gameplay is balanced, if it wasn't westwood would have noticed and fixed it themselves during beta and after release in the patches BUT THEY DIDN'T. And this is in no way personal, I, like the majority of the community disagree with a few of these "fixes".
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Right, so let's review:
1) Right click on flame tank causes double damage via the first primary muzzle, while none via the second primary muzzle.
2) This exploit was not noticed during Westwood QA because of another bug. This other bug causes emitters for secondary fire modes to be displayed at the primary muzzles instead of the secondary muzzles. *No* vehicle in vanilla Renegade has emitter weapons (aka flamethrower) and two sets of muzzles so it's very likely that it was never noticed.
3) There is no documentation whatsoever from Westwood that the flame tank has a secondary fire mode.
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346246 is a reply to message #346245] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 18:16 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| Saberhawk wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 18:13 |
| trooprm02 wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 20:00 |
Ok, let me review:
1)Right click flamer/mrl give no kind of "advantage" whatsoever
2)they add a gameplay tactic
So the question is, even if it is "mathematically" wrong matching that to gameplay doesn't make sense especially because of the 2 points mentioned above so why remove it?
if u say so 
Its the same issue with the points fix, the code might be mathematically wrong, but really WHO FUCKING CARES, ingame gameplay is balanced, if it wasn't westwood would have noticed and fixed it themselves during beta and after release in the patches BUT THEY DIDN'T. And this is in no way personal, I, like the majority of the community disagree with a few of these "fixes".
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Right, so let's review:
1) Right click on flame tank causes double damage via the first primary muzzle, while none via the second primary muzzle.
2) This exploit was not noticed during Westwood QA because of another bug. This other bug causes emitters for secondary fire modes to be displayed at the primary muzzles instead of the secondary muzzles. *No* vehicle in vanilla Renegade has emitter weapons (aka flamethrower) and two sets of muzzles so it's very likely that it was never noticed.
3) There is no documentation whatsoever from Westwood that the flame tank has a secondary fire mode.
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346261 is a reply to message #342538] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 20:06 |
blly
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2007
Location: ONLINE ALL DAY EVERY DAY ...
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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who cares?
stop trying to make this game perfect. its really old, you cant fix everything, and all glitches that dont get 2/3 vote to remove whould be kept.
unless its really dumb like bluescreening.
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346265 is a reply to message #346261] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 20:12 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
Karma: 0
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General (4 Stars) |
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| blly wrote on Mon, 11 August 2008 20:06 |
who cares?
stop trying to make this game perfect. its really old, you cant fix everything, and all glitches that dont get 2/3 vote to remove whould be kept.
unless its really dumb like bluescreening.
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they are not trying to make it perfect just decent...
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346268 is a reply to message #346265] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 20:16 |
gkl21
Messages: 238
Registered: May 2006
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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The team is doing the best that they can to remove all bugs.
If you don't like something done, just make a counter-act to it yourself... Not hard to learn a language with google and msdn around 
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| Re: Some Fixes, Some Ideas [message #346273 is a reply to message #342538] |
Mon, 11 August 2008 20:45 |
blly
Messages: 67
Registered: August 2007
Location: ONLINE ALL DAY EVERY DAY ...
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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or how about this, you guys listen to the majority of the ren community and to what it tells you to do.
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