| turning points fix on and off [message #338377] |
Tue, 01 July 2008 13:15  |
Rocko
Messages: 833
Registered: January 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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will server owners be allowed to have the benefits of the TT patch but also be able to decide if they want the points fix part of it?
black and proud
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338399 is a reply to message #338377] |
Tue, 01 July 2008 14:41  |
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Ghostshaw
Messages: 709
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Its only one fix. Anyhow, the problem is that if we make it configurable we need to tell the ladderserv wether or not its on or off because it either has to do different calculations or jsut completely ignore servers with it off since they would have an unfair advantage gaining more points. So its not just simple question of turning it on or off.
BlackIntel Administrator
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338498 is a reply to message #338489] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 05:20 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Why not just ship the patch without pointfix since it cant be turned off due to the ladder system and whatnot and then let server owners install it themselves? This is being said from a logical POV. I didn't like the pointfix when it was first released. I 'abused' this bug with a shotty against the harvy at the start of the map to gain them few extra credits so I could get an arty quickly and then dominate the field. However, i've been playing on a server that has had the pointfix for like 4months now and I have got use to it. Instead of a shotty I use a grenny, throw my C4 and then fire as many shots I can before I get killed.
Please dont take this request as 'oh he is against PF so thats why he is saying it'
Edit:
Possibly you could ship it with the patch but have an option in the installer to not install it? Would be the best way to do this I think...
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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[Updated on: Wed, 02 July 2008 05:25] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338576 is a reply to message #338399] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 13:14 |
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Chuck Norris
Messages: 312
Registered: July 2007
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| Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 16:41 |
Its only one fix.
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So when the points fix is mentioned, that DOESN'T include the armor MOD most servers that use the points fix also use? I thought they were part of the same MOD due to that reason. I LIKE the points fix, but HATE the armor MOD. There's a reason Havoc and Sakura cost 1000 versus 450 (less than half) of an Arty or MRLS, and the armor MOD breaks that balance with the "you should only use tanks" mentality. Sniping tanks and getting major points for no damage is bad, but having the damage snipers does against lightly armored vehicles is intended and is how it should be.
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338590 is a reply to message #338576] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 13:37 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Caveman wrote |
I didn't like the pointfix when it was first released. I 'abused' this bug with a shotty against the harvy at the start of the map to gain them few extra credits so I could get an arty quickly and then dominate the field. However, i've been playing on a server that has had the pointfix for like 4months now and I have got use to it. Instead of a shotty I use a grenny, throw my C4 and then fire as many shots I can before I get killed.
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The second course of action, i.e. actually attacking the harvester with something which poses a credible threat to it, is not only strategically MUCH wiser than the shotgunner option - since it is far more likely that your team will destroy it, which starves the enemy of credits as well as boosting yours - but it also gets you far more points than you seem to think. You get 100 for entirely killing a harvester when the pointsfix is on. I'm not sure exactly what you'd get by unloading a shotgun onto it, but I don't think it would be THAT much more. Considering the far higher strategic value of actually making the effort to destroy it with a grenadier, it is barely questionable that it is wiser to get the grenadier.
Even if you get the arty quicker with the shotgunner, your enemy will get their tanks quicker because you let the harvester survive, when you could've killed it by getting a grenadier instead. So, the advantage of getting your arty quicker is basically an illusion.
So, like so many others, the points bug taught you a bad habit and the pointsfix cured you of it.
| Chuck Norris wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 15:14 |
| Ghostshaw wrote on Tue, 01 July 2008 16:41 |
Its only one fix.
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So when the points fix is mentioned, that DOESN'T include the armor MOD most servers that use the points fix also use? I thought they were part of the same MOD due to that reason. I LIKE the points fix, but HATE the armor MOD. There's a reason Havoc and Sakura cost 1000 versus 450 (less than half) of an Arty or MRLS, and the armor MOD breaks that balance with the "you should only use tanks" mentality. Sniping tanks and getting major points for no damage is bad, but having the damage snipers does against lightly armored vehicles is intended and is how it should be.
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I agree that armour does not need to be changed as long as the pointsfix is there; I agree that orcas, arties etc are balanced in relation to ramjets as long as the pointsfix is there. I am a little puzzled, however, by your statement that "most servers which use the pointsfix also use the armour mod". Could you clarify that? Jelly doesn't (it used to, but the pointsfix replaced it very well), n00bstories doesn't, I don't think TK2 or blackintel do? Please do correct me if I'm wrong.
to repeat, I am not at all disputing your statement that the armour mod is an unwise modification, not to mention completely unnecessary if the pointsfix is there.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
[Updated on: Wed, 02 July 2008 13:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338646 is a reply to message #338489] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 17:46 |
Rocko
Messages: 833
Registered: January 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 06:47 |
It's not that important, that's right, it doesn';t change much when it's on..
Only the amount of points you get, which is only important for the ladder server...
So unless you want your server unladdered (or you like sniping tanks with a havoc) you might as wel have it on.
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yeah and it is right that it isn't important. so why force servers to use it if they want the TT patch...
black and proud
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338648 is a reply to message #338646] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 17:59 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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| Rocko wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 19:46 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 06:47 |
It's not that important, that's right, it doesn';t change much when it's on..
Only the amount of points you get, which is only important for the ladder server...
So unless you want your server unladdered (or you like sniping tanks with a havoc) you might as wel have it on.
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yeah and it is right that it isn't important. so why force servers to use it if they want the TT patch...
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Do you really enjoy sniping tanks with a havoc that much? Maybe you should pay the TK2 server a visit and see how the rest of us who actually appreciate how AOW was meant to be play the game...then you'll understand.
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338656 is a reply to message #338377] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 18:24 |
a000clown
Messages: 363
Registered: May 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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I honestly don't see the big deal of any of this.
Point fix or not, I doubt it will change how I play the game. Teamplay is and will always be the most important and effective way to defeat your enemies.
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338663 is a reply to message #338648] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 18:55 |
Rocko
Messages: 833
Registered: January 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| =HT=T-Bird wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 20:59 |
| Rocko wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 19:46 |
| EvilWhiteDragon wrote on Wed, 02 July 2008 06:47 |
It's not that important, that's right, it doesn';t change much when it's on..
Only the amount of points you get, which is only important for the ladder server...
So unless you want your server unladdered (or you like sniping tanks with a havoc) you might as wel have it on.
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yeah and it is right that it isn't important. so why force servers to use it if they want the TT patch...
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Do you really enjoy sniping tanks with a havoc that much? Maybe you should pay the TK2 server a visit and see how the rest of us who actually appreciate how AOW was meant to be play the game...then you'll understand.
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I don't snipe tanks. there's a big difference in the way the game is played and feels between each version.
This game has been practically the same for like 6 years or whatever and I never sat around pissed in game upset about how the points were calculated. I want to continue playing the game I payed for online the same way it was when I bought it including the way westwood patched it.
I don't even like the donation function or any other crate mods or whatever. the game is fine the way it is.
Though it could use glitch fixing and the nice functions available in TT, not including points fix.
black and proud
[Updated on: Wed, 02 July 2008 18:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338665 is a reply to message #338377] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 19:00 |
_SSnipe_
Messages: 4121
Registered: May 2007
Location: Riverside Southern Califo...
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General (4 Stars) |
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theres a huge amount of people that like new changes and mods and another huge amount that love basic old stlye renegade game you should be able to choose servers that is
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338682 is a reply to message #338590] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 22:30 |
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Chuck Norris
Messages: 312
Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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Whenever I used to play at any servers, they all seemed to have it to where a sniper does half damage to light armored vehicles (ten shots to kill a MRLS/Arty instead of the normal five). Jelly Server was like this last I remember, but I haven't used a sniper against a lightly armored vehicle there in a while, and it's been a while since I played there. If it's not like that these days, then I guess what I said isn't true anymore.
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris is the reason why Waldo is hiding.
When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn’t lifting himself up, he’s pushing the Earth down.
Chuck Norris can slam a revolving door.
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338687 is a reply to message #338377] |
Wed, 02 July 2008 23:35 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9743
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 14
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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POINTS FIX DOES NOT CHANGE DAMAGE, ONLY POINTS.
Now if the TT-team could just confirm if they'll make it an option for server owners or not, then we can put this whole discussion behind us  .
And if you want to continue playing the game like it was when it was released, then why acquire new tactics in the first place? + there have been several patches to get to 1.037 and a lot of things already changed due to them!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 02 July 2008 23:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338689 is a reply to message #338682] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 00:39 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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| Chuck Norris wrote on Thu, 03 July 2008 00:30 |
Whenever I used to play at any servers, they all seemed to have it to where a sniper does half damage to light armored vehicles (ten shots to kill a MRLS/Arty instead of the normal five). Jelly Server was like this last I remember, but I haven't used a sniper against a lightly armored vehicle there in a while, and it's been a while since I played there. If it's not like that these days, then I guess what I said isn't true anymore.
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It's true the large jelly server USED to have a modification like that, but firstly that was before the pointsfix came along, and secondly it was removed when the pointsfix DID come along.
In a nutshell, the "armour mod" was a poorly-designed way of achieving something the pointsfix achieves much better.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338694 is a reply to message #338377] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 02:33 |
Jamie or NuneGa
Messages: 954
Registered: June 2007
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Due to your arguement with the ladder system why not just have it so servers can op to be in the ladder and therefore not have point fix.
I don't see how all servers can be on the ladder anyway when there are death match server, servers with mods that allow you to get 1000 point for killing a single character.
Clanwar servers already use a ladder system that I believe everyone is happy with, therefore there is no need for them to be part of the ladder.
Its simple just make it so a server cannot be on the ladder without the point fix on. This simple adjustment to the TT plan is the only thing that is needed to make it so nobody has a problem with the patch.
Jamie is a guys name in Europe...
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| Re: turning points fix on and off [message #338696 is a reply to message #338377] |
Thu, 03 July 2008 02:38 |
StealthEye
Messages: 2518
Registered: May 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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General (2 Stars) |
 
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| Quote: |
Though it could use glitch fixing and the nice functions available in TT, not including points fix.
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The point fix _is_ fixing a glitch, it is a clear bug in the code and the way points used to be calculated do not make sense at all. It doesn't matter so much as long as you play the game normally: if you shoot at targets you can actually reasonably damage. It only makes a difference for targets which you can hardly damage, ie. shooting things that are useless for you shoot at. It makes abuse (shooting the harvester with a ramjet for points) impossible though, that's the biggest advantage. It also makes reasoning about the points possible. Killing a harvy gets you 98 points iirc. Killing any purchased unit gives you the cost/10 points. It's a fix to a bug, just like many other fixes.
BlackIntel admin/founder/coder
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
[Updated on: Thu, 03 July 2008 02:38] Report message to a moderator |
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