Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Gun control
| Gun control [message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 06:03  |
 |
R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
|
General (3 Stars) |
|
|
I've seen this pop up in a few other topics so I decided to start it on my own.
What do you think about gun control laws? (This is mostly relating to those of us living in the United States)
Personally I believe that no matter what laws or restrictions you put against firearms criminals will still get them if they want them badly enough.
I do believe that the public doesn't necessarily need certain weapons like assault rifles and snipers, simple defense hand guns among other weapons of similar nature should be the only ones that are allowed (unless you have trained use and a license with said weapon.)
I believe the second amendment was mainly put in place because of the time the Constitution was created in. It was necessary for you to have some sort of weapon handy in case another problem like the Revolutionary war broke out, but that isn't really an issue anymore, and we don't need civilians running around with heavy assault weapons. This is why I believe that civilians should be able to obtain simple defensive weapons like semi-automatic pistols or revolvers with the normal background check that they use now, but for more advanced weapons, they are required to be trained for a given amount of time to handle other such weapons, I also believe some weapons should require military training.
How do you guys feel about it?
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 06:04] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337397 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 06:24  |
 |
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
If I want a sniper rifle or a machine gun, I should damn well have the right to own one. The VAST majority of people with these guns would have no intention to use it against other people, even in times of self-defense because those weapons would just be too cumbersome. Plus, just because you restrict a certain type of gun to citizens doesn't mean you're preventing criminals from getting them. Also, why don't we hear more about incidents like the DC Sniper? Sure, he bought the gun legally, but this is a rare occurrence. Why? Because the VAST majority of people aren't looking to go killing people randomly. Those that do, they'll get the gun any way they can. Even if the "sniper" had to get it from the black market, the worst it would have done was delay the shootings, not prevent them.
The Second Amendment wasn't FOR the times it was written, but BECAUSE of the time that it was written. The colonies saw just how dangerous a tyrannical government was, and they knew damn well that it would happen again. If the people weren't guaranteed the right to own guns, there would be no way of defending themselves against an army WITH guns. Tell me, how well do sticks and knives do against guns and cannons (now would be artillery)?
Even if guns didn't help with the self-defense of innocent civilians (and boy do they), we need them to fend off a tyrannical government. You know, much like the one that the US government is currently becoming. There may just come a time that we have to fight and die for our rights again, and we can't do that without guns. Don't tell me it can't happen, either. Our founding fathers made some grim prophesies about what would happen with the eroding of our civil liberties. They've been dead on the money. I won't be doubting their wisdom. Human nature doesn't change.
Anybody willing to deny that guns used for self-defense assist people isn't someone I want to even debate. The fact that most people with guns are responsible. Even then, accidents WILL happen. If you want to talk about accidental gun shootings, then we need to talk about the accidental car deaths. We should talk about drownings. We should talk about people dying while playing sports. The fact is, accidents happen all of the time, and people die as a result. It's incredibly tragic, but let's not get carried away and suggest that we all live in a fucking bubble to protect us from dangers.
Edit: I won't deny that people buy guns in excess, and a lot of the guns aren't needed. That's a given. People like to own a lot of things. It's just human nature. However, the same can be said just about everything. I have 2 computers, a laptop and a desktop. I don't need both. I have several First Person Shooter games. I have 200 CDs. I have a phone that can play MP3s AND an MP3 player I have several hard drives that aren't even half-full. The thing is, I wouldn't even call myself very materialistic, either. I bet some of you have way more things in excess. Should we take all of this away? Are you willing to? Hmm?
Edit 2: Apparently that Bushmaster XM-15 (AR-15) used in the DC Sniper attacks was stolen, too.
whoa.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 06:34] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337406 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 07:27 |
 |
Ryu
Messages: 2833
Registered: September 2006
Location: Liverpool, England.
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
I mean, In Britain, it's great, I never worry someone is going to shoot me, and if someone did, when I'm being rushed to hospital at least I don't think to myself "Shit, will I be able to pay for this operation?"
But then we have to worry about knives.. which is a problem in London for the most part, proof:
That's how bad stabbing in London are, they need to add them around the city, lol.
I like gun control - and when the Government turns their back on us, 2000 citizens rushing a unsuspecting Military barracks is a guarantee for free weapons.
hurr hurr.
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337413 is a reply to message #337406] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 08:33 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| Ryu wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 15:27 |
I mean, In Britain, it's great, I never worry someone is going to shoot me, and if someone did, when I'm being rushed to hospital at least I don't think to myself "Shit, will I be able to pay for this operation?"
But then we have to worry about knives.. which is a problem in London for the most part, proof:
That's how bad stabbing in London are, they need to add them around the city, lol.
I like gun control - and when the Government turns their back on us, 2000 citizens rushing a unsuspecting Military barracks is a guarantee for free weapons.
hurr hurr.
|
This is my point, anything that was made to intentionally kill someone should not be used by the general public. Guns, Knifes and whatever else you can think off were designed with one purpose which was to cause serious harm to another person, they were not made for show and display. Unless you're some fucked up sick person why do you REALLY need such things?
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337420 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 08:47 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
Do you people NOT realize that there are such things as criminals? You know, people that are out there to harm you whether it be physical, financially, or mentally? THAT is why people need guns. Plus, guns are great for defending yourself against tyrannical governments and for recreation and hunting.
If you leave the weapons to the police, you're leaving everything to a reactionary force. Reactionary forces only help after something has happened. A person on the street getting mugged can't exactly be helped by police. A person who has their house broken into doesn't have much time to react, let alone for a police force to react that's miles away. If the police could instantly teleport to the crime in progress, then I can start to see an argument against guns, but even then, you have to find a phone, call 911, talk to an operator about what's going on, and then the cops would have be alerted, and then be transported. That's just in a fantasy world of cops using teleportation. Even then, all a person would have to do, that owns a gun, is find the gun, put the gun off safety, point the gun, pull the trigger. What response time is faster?
whoa.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337423 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 08:57 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
Most of us aren't sociopaths, and most of us are law-abiding citizens. I don't hunt because I don't like the idea of taking the life of even an animal (I'm fine with others doing it, though). There's no way I'd feel good about ending the life of a human. However, in a dog eat dog world, I'm not going to let some asshole come into my life and harm me or my family. If you don't want to use a gun, nobody's asking you to own one. Just don't take away my right to defend myself the way I see fit. If someone wants to take away my rights, then they concede theirs.
If you wanted to kill people that badly, you would find a gun, regardless of laws. However, if not owning a gun makes you feel safer in terms of not being able to shoot and kill someone, then don't get a gun. I just know that I wouldn't pull the trigger on someone that pisses me off unless they were trespassing with the intent to do harm to my property, me, or my family.
whoa.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337424 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 08:58 |
 |
IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
My follow Englishmen, there is no point fighting with the yanks, they only care about themselfs and not about anything or anyone else, they are kids and don't know any better.
Let them kill themselfs in colleges and schools. 
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 08:58] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337425 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 08:58 |
 |
GEORGE ZIMMER
Messages: 2605
Registered: March 2006
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
Taking guns away from criminals only makes them find another weapon to kill people with. Even if guns directly aren't the major problem, it'll turn into another weapon. Like knives.
However, keep taking shit away from the general public, and non-criminals are left defenseless.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
|
FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337427 is a reply to message #337424] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 09:02 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
| IronWarrior wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 11:58 |
My follow Englishmen, there is no point fighting with the yanks, they only care about themselfs and not about anything else or anyone else just a other blunt point, they too are kids and don't know any better.
Let them kill themselfs in colleges and schools.
|
Wow, and Americans are the arrogant ones? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Do you even know what the fuck you're talking about? What part of wanting to own a gun makes us only care about ourselves? I'm sorry we're not Utilitarian fucknuts. We, actually, believe that what someone earns, they deserve to keep. I know, it's a fucking CRAZY idea, but we also don't like the thought of someone else taking things from us, whether it be our property, the life of a family member, or our own life.
Actually, there's been perfect examples shooters being subdued by other students that ran out to their cars to grab their guns.
whoa.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 09:03] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337428 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 09:04 |
 |
Ghostshaw
Messages: 709
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
|
Colonel |
|
|
I think americans are a bit hypocrite tbh. They are all in favor of free guns and all that freedom crap, but in the mean time they did allow some silly president to in state the patriot act, have the drinking age at 21 and whine about video games being to violent. IMO the last 3 things really speak off a lack of freedom or the intention to limit it.
BlackIntel Administrator
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337430 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 09:07 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
Hypocritical? I'm against the Patriot Act. I HATE the drinking age being 21 (too bad, I wasn't born for another 8 years when it was changed...), and people can whine about violent games all they want, as long as the government doesn't enact legislation against them.
Also, those last three things are exactly why we, as citizens, want to KEEP our guns, so we can maintain the freedoms that we DO have, and perhaps even regain some lost ones.
whoa.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337445 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 10:34 |
 |
warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
Unfortunately the "best" arguments to own guns (stop tyrannical governments, protect yourself and all those other honourable reasons) are about as rare as the bad elements caused by the ease of access to guns. Someone going around shooting up a school is about as rare as requiring weapons to prevent such an act. You can't immediately dismiss the bad element as "rare and only applies to a limited number of people" when using the weapons for good are just as rare and limited.
Ultimately, you can't rely on the rare cases to decide such factors (some exceptions apply - such as when even the rare case hold too high of a cost). I am all for "show-guns" so long as they are not functioning. Want to own a high-powered assault rifle just for the sake of owning it? Go for it... just remove something that would prevent it from functioning. Yes, it is easy enough to make it functioning again, but that can be better regulated than stopping guns themselves.
Heck, I collect medieval-style weaponry (swords, daggers, etc.) and currently own 3 dulled Katanas (with poorly crafted blades as they are strictly for show), a number of daggers and even a few more modern hunting knives. Sure, I could get them sharpened, or even with my Cadet training sharpen them myself (well, at least the knives).
Edit: Point being, gun control is something that I think should be used, but needs to be re-evaluated and made more realistic. As much as it is ideal to rely on our fellow man to be a rational person, please... when you have companies that NEED to inform people that fresh coffee is hot, ironing clothes while still on the body is a bad idea, etc. it shows we are far from rational.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 10:37] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337447 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 10:44 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
Then you completely ignore the simplest of arguments: Guns don't kill people. A properly functioning, high-powered rifle cannot kill people.
Face it, just about anything can be used as a murder weapon. I can kill people with my car. I can kill people with knives. I can kill people with scissors. I can kill people with my bare hands. I can kill people with a pen. I can kill people with my car keys. I can kill people with a chair. I can kill people with a toaster. I can kill people with a glass bottle. I can kill people with a golf club. I can kill people with a baseball bat. I can kill people with a plastic bag. I can kill people crowbar. I can kill people with a pillow. I think you guys get the point. If not, I'll name some more later.
Just because something CAN be used maliciously does not mean that it will. It is the responsibility of the individual to obey the law. Taking away the weapon does not take away the criminal intent. Instead, it merely changes the weapon. If you can't trust yourself to be careful with a weapon, then don't buy the weapon. It's that simple.
The simple act of owning a gun does not impede on the rights of someone else, and it certainly shouldn't make someone a criminal. Again, I can use just about anything to impede on the rights of someone else. Only then, when I willfully impede on someone else's rights should I be considered a criminal, and not a second sooner.
Edit: People are only irrational because the government gives them the ability to be irrational. If you cradle a child, the child will always expect to be cradled. If someone is forced to rely on the government, they will never learn to take matters into their own hands. Regardless, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody or anybody that knows someone who has created a frivolous lawsuit. Those lawsuits certainly do show the stupidity of some people, but that's all... just SOME. A minority shouldn't be enough to determine the fate of the vast majority.
whoa.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 10:47] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337449 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 11:02 |
|
warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| Quote: |
Guns don't kill people.
|
And I agree. People kill people. However, guns have one sole purpose: kill. "recreation" is simply a training exercises. You learn how to aim better. Cars, knives, etc. can be used to kill people, but are not designed to kill. "Kitchen knives" are designed to be used in the kitchen for cooking. "Other" knives are designed to be used as weapons and should rightfully be controlled (as I mentioned the knives I own have been designed with a dull edge... if you can call a flat surface an "edge")
| Quote: |
If you can't trust yourself to be careful with a weapon, then don't buy the weapon. It's that simple.
|
Idealistic viewpoint. It's not that simple or people wouldn't be killed with weapons.
| Quote: |
The simple act of owning a gun does not impede on the rights of someone else, and it certainly shouldn't make someone a criminal.
|
Never argued against that.
| Quote: |
Those lawsuits certainly do show the stupidity of some people, but that's all... just SOME. A minority shouldn't be enough to determine the fate of the vast majority.
|
Unfortunately when you are dealing with the law, the minority WILL affect the majority. There is no way around it, that is how the system was designed. One person goes to court with a lawsuit (legitimate or not) and the result of that creates a precedent for future cases to be won (or lost) over. ONE person winning a case over spilled coffee now means that EVERYONE can sue if the same thing were to happen to them unless the defendant takes reasonable steps to ensure it won't happen. ONE person sues over discrimination based on colour now means EVERYONE can sue over discrimination based on colour.
Just some reading to pass the time, not using these as proof of anything in this argument:
http://www.legalzoom.com/legal-articles/article11331.html
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/categories/C46
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337450 is a reply to message #337447] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 11:06 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
| cheesesoda wrote on Wed, 25 June 2008 18:44 |
Then you completely ignore the simplest of arguments: Guns don't kill people. A properly functioning, high-powered rifle cannot kill people.
Face it, just about anything can be used as a murder weapon. I can kill people with my car. I can kill people with knives. I can kill people with scissors. I can kill people with my bare hands. I can kill people with a pen. I can kill people with my car keys. I can kill people with a chair. I can kill people with a toaster. I can kill people with a glass bottle. I can kill people with a golf club. I can kill people with a baseball bat. I can kill people with a plastic bag. I can kill people crowbar. I can kill people with a pillow. I think you guys get the point. If not, I'll name some more later.
Just because something CAN be used maliciously does not mean that it will. It is the responsibility of the individual to obey the law. Taking away the weapon does not take away the criminal intent. Instead, it merely changes the weapon. If you can't trust yourself to be careful with a weapon, then don't buy the weapon. It's that simple.
The simple act of owning a gun does not impede on the rights of someone else, and it certainly shouldn't make someone a criminal. Again, I can use just about anything to impede on the rights of someone else. Only then, when I willfully impede on someone else's rights should I be considered a criminal, and not a second sooner.
Edit: People are only irrational because the government gives them the ability to be irrational. If you cradle a child, the child will always expect to be cradled. If someone is forced to rely on the government, they will never learn to take matters into their own hands. Regardless, I don't know about you, but I don't know anybody or anybody that knows someone who has created a frivolous lawsuit. Those lawsuits certainly do show the stupidity of some people, but that's all... just SOME. A minority shouldn't be enough to determine the fate of the vast majority.
|
You are missing my point... Yes a lot of things can be used as a murder weapon, but guns were made to kill people..Chairs were made to sit on.. You cannot relate the two.. If someone breaks into my home and steals my computer or w/e im not gonna shoot him. If someone breaks into your home with a gun and is pointing at you.. even though you have a gun are you seriously gonna make a move for it and risk being killed? Hell no, let the thief take what he wants and you'll more then likely come out of it alive but short on funds...
Im sorry if my way of living and disagreement with killing people doesn't quite live up to your lifestyle.
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337451 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 11:07 |
|
IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
Guns are designed to kill, nothing else, why do you think wars become so deadly when armies started to be equipped with them, you only need to look at WW1 and WW2 to see how deadly they are.
One man armed with a simple mag fed rifle can kill 10x the number of people then a man armed with any other blunt weapon and 100x faster and any idiot can use it, hench why they are so popular and successful.
Back before the days of firearms, people had to train long hours with weapons to become good with them, take the long bow or crossbow, both weapons require a strong man, the long bow for exemple required years of training to be able to pull the string back and fire, the crossbow required power to pull the lock back, at long range, a arrow might defect off a persons armour, the arrow from a crossbow would go right through the armour from whatever range.
When the first guns and rifles started to be given out, they changed the face of warfare forever, since any farm boy could use it and kill anyone with it.
The fact is, guns are deadly, oh they may be objects but that means nothing, if you remove firearms from people, they would find it a hell alot harder to kill a other person.
Just to prove the fact, fly your fat american ass over here and we play two games.
First game, paint ball, we see how fast we can kill each other when we shooting at each other.
Second game, come at me with a stick in your hand and see how much I can put up a fight to live.
Against a firewarm, I have no defence, I can't block it, I can't defect it, he points the gun at me and fires and am dead.
You find it alot harder to kill me with a knife or some other blunt weapon.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 11:09] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337453 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 11:18 |
|
cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
|
General (5 Stars) |
|
|
God, you two Europeans are just as thick as you claim I am.
I don't give a fuck if guns were designed to kill. Oh-fucking-well. That's beside the god damn point. The fact is, just about anything can be used to kill whether or not the fucking thing was intended for that purpose. Are you going to tell me that homosexuality is wrong because our genitals are for pro-creation? That's what they were intended for, right? Must mean there's no other reason to use them or have them.
Taking away a weapon doesn't always make murder harder. It just makes the person have to choose a different tactic. Sure, if I come running at you with a stick, I have no element of surprise. I could, then, just as easily come from behind you, slit your throat, and be done with it.
Not to mention that getting rid of guns from civilians doesn't change the fucking obvious point that CRIMINALS. WILL. STILL. HAVE. GUNS. Even if you had the government raid every household (talk about the invasion of privacy) to get rid of guns, that still doesn't change the fact that guns can be created out of raw materials (shall we ban steel, aluminum, brass, copper, etc... because it could be used to make weaponry?), let alone you will never be able to get rid of half of the guns out there.
If you're walking alone, and you have a gun, the smart thing would be to have your hand on your gun at all times. This removes the whole element of surprise on the attacker's part, as you're just as quick to draw your weapon.
Would you idiots stop insisting that an attacker is automatically going to shoot you? THAT'S NOT THE INTENT. If someone wants you dead, you really don't have much of a chance. Since that's not the general intent of a criminal, you'll generally have the upperhand, as you SHOULD have the desire to stay alive.
whoa.
|
|
|
|
| Re: Gun control [message #337454 is a reply to message #337389] |
Wed, 25 June 2008 11:30 |
|
IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
|
General (2 Stars) |
|
|
I would say you are ignorant.
I will not go into the fact that most gun crime is not planned and a gun was only used because they had one on their person, so remove the weapon, the chances of a deadly outcome from that crime is reduced with a deadly ending.
The fact that criminals might have guns is not a bearing on this, it is the Police's job to fix that problem and protect you not the other way around.
Have you ever thought why drink driving or driving while on drugs is against the law, the car is not a deadly weapon, but soon you start drinking, the man driving it becomes a weapon.
I don't see the point of taking this any further, there has been many topics about this before and always ended up in a shitfest.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 June 2008 11:34] Report message to a moderator |
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue Nov 12 01:37:57 MST 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01513 seconds
|
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
