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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333649 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 09:26   |
nope.avi
Messages: 601
Registered: December 2007
Location: Canada
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I mean, I don't want to seem like an arrogant little prick by saying I don't care. It's just there's so much more to worry about today like global warming...Even if we did find our roots as a planet, what good will that do the world? will it cure cancer?aids?
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333651 is a reply to message #333643] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 10:09 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Starbuzz wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 09:54 |
| warranto wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 09:48 |
| Starbuzz wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 07:03 |
We will eventually have all this figured out.
EDIT:
August and September of this year will be crucial for Science. By early-mid 2009, we would have enough evidence to know whether parallel dimensions exist. It helps to follow what the scientific community is upto.
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2009?
Link please 
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A good overview of the entire LHC project can be found here at the official CERN site:
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/LHC-en.html
The links on the left contain useful information. The experiment to find the possibility of extra dimensions is called ATLAS.
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/LHC/ATLAS-en.html
The ATLAS people released this video as well. Nothing is proven and firm right now...but it may not or may change in a couple month and years. All we have now is theories and speculation but maybe not for long?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0ZqV5u-z6o
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Thanks!
Although one thing I noticed. It really doesn't say "parallel dimensions", but "extra dimensions"... and not necessarily the Sci-fi kind. What they seem to be trying to do is to see if dimensions beyond what we can experience exist.
1st Dimension - straight line
2nd Dimension - flat pictures
3rd Dimension - how we see the world
4th Dimension - currently beyond our specific understanding.
It's this 4th dimension and beyond that the experiments are designed to reveal.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 10:09] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333670 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 12:08 |
KIRBY-098
Messages: 338
Registered: July 2006
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The problem is eroding social structure and values.
Turn from God and his instructions, and you of course have a mess.
Analogy: A manufacturer puts instructions into a package for a complex product you need to live each day.
He gives it to you free and promises results but you decide he doesn't know what he's talking about and since you can't see him, call him or prove the instructions are real or work you don't follow them because there must surely be a better faster way and you're clearly smart enough to figure this out.
You aren't going to get a good result, and your quality of life will suffer. Who's fault is it?
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333671 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 12:12 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
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Location: Jackson, Michigan
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Or the Bible could be just like a guy on the street selling you a fake Rolex. He says it's genuine, and he's saying all the right words, but you have no proof that it's actually a genuine Rolex, and there's no way to get definitive proof.
It's not really much of a stretch of the imagination to see why people are skeptical from buying a "Rolex" from a random guy. Chances are, though, it's not a genuine Rolex.
whoa.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 12:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333674 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 12:39 |
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cheesesoda
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For me, for the first few paragraphs of the guy's sales pitch, I believed, and I would even argue to every passerby that the guy was being sincere. Then, I had to stop the guy for a minute to think about it. I realized, at that point, all the things he said weren't bad, but I just couldn't justify the price for something that I couldn't guarantee was genuine, and the requirements to keep the watch just seemed to outweigh the benefits of keeping my money.
I mean, I can still impress people and look sharp without an expensive watch.
whoa.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333683 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 13:04 |
nope.avi
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The answer as to why people buy those rolexes is because they believe that it could be the genuine thing, the real deal. Think about it, this guy on the street says all the right words and if he looks genuine(aka nice clothes, speaks properly) then maybe people, will buy these rolexes for about 10$ on the off chance that they are real, and they're getting the deal of their lives.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 13:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333686 is a reply to message #333682] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 13:08 |
KIRBY-098
Messages: 338
Registered: July 2006
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| Starbuzz wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 14:55 |
The only thing that confounds me is the massive number of peoples who have bought these Rolexes. And what confuses me even further is that they have bought the Rolexes from different street guys; and they are all convinced that they have a genuine Rolex. Something is slighty amiss here, I think, and I see nothing wrong with having an investigation.
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Which is why it is VERY important to seek truth, and not a variety of it. Denominationalism is wrong. There was only one church in AD 33.
The bible says there's ONE way. Not one way with 5,000 man made intepretations of it.
Just do what the New Testament says. So easy. Even if you don't understand it, or agree with it.
As for evidences: There is quantifiable proof that christians live better, longer happier lives. It isn't an accident. If we can believe in aliens and microbial seeding, why am I labelled a delusional loon for thinking there's a being who doesn't play by our rules and is responsible for us and everything we see.
A true study of metaphysics lends support to creationism, not against it.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333690 is a reply to message #333685] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 13:15 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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| warranto wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 16:06 |
Oh, I agree that it can't be proven by word of mouth that it is genuine, heh... but that is the whole concept of faith: be it a belief in God (regardless of which God(s) it may be), belief of the random street vendor, or the belief of a friend offering you the same thing.
It's not so much how you can fair with or without it (at least as far as I am concerned - you could have easily have known it was a genuine Rolex and still chosen not to get it), but rather the initial assessment of real or fake.
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I think you missed my point a little.
What I was saying was that all the sacrifices that being a Christian requires (and as well as other religions) wasn't really worth the "guarantee" of Heaven when it comes from a book with a questionable background. Plus, I don't see some of these "immoral" pleasures being immoral in the least.
Then there's the whole problem with how history went from polytheism to monotheism. It's hard to think that everybody thinking that every object has a soul is somehow wrong, but then suddenly a belief in one God is somehow correct.
Plus, the whole writing of the Bible. Everybody shows verses of the Bible speaking of people disbelieving and such, but human nature is so easy to understand. If you speak vaguely of how people will react to religion, you entrance so many... like the whole obsession with Nostradamus predictions.
It just seems too fishy for me to believe it anymore.
whoa.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333692 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 13:30 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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Heh, actually that is exactly the point I got from it.
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What I was saying was that all the sacrifices that being a Christian requires (and as well as other religions) wasn't really worth the "guarantee" of Heaven when it comes from a book with a questionable background. Plus, I don't see some of these "immoral" pleasures being immoral in the least.
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Right. And I'm not questioning your decision on that (hence my use of the idea regarding knowing the Rolex was real but still not getting it). All I'm suggesting is that (to make the analogy a little more direct) even if you don't like the price you have to pay for admission, it does not mean what you are getting in to does not exist. If you think a movie is not worth the price for admission, that is up to you... however not agreeing with the price of admission does not deal with the existence of the movie.
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Then there's the whole problem with how history went from polytheism to monotheism. It's hard to think that everybody thinking that every object has a soul is somehow wrong, but then suddenly a belief in one God is somehow correct.
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It's not so hard to understand (Whether or not you agree is a different subject). Basically humanity gained a very strong ego and thought itself special from everything else because (as far as we knew back then) we were the only things with rationality and high-level cognitive abilities. The existence of a soul didn't change, but rather restricted itself to the "group of special people".
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Plus, the whole writing of the Bible. Everybody shows verses of the Bible speaking of people disbelieving and such, but human nature is so easy to understand. If you speak vaguely of how people will react to religion, you entrance so many... like the whole obsession with Nostradamus predictions.
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Too true. Unfortunately this is why the "truth" (and by this I mean the objective truth of the matter - whatever it may be) will never be known as it is far too easy to veer people away from it. It doesn't mean any one specific example is automatically wrong because of it, but it does mean that the lines that show why it is a truth or falsehood are blurred almost to the point of no longer existing.
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333695 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 13:47 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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Yeah, but in my case, there is no proof of said movie existing. I'd say it's more like this one Family Guy episode where they get a postcard in the mail saying that they won a free boat (and the boat DID exist), but they were also offered a "mystery surprise". Theoretically, the mystery surprise could benefit you in numerous ways. However, the cost of having the surprise was giving up the free boat. It almost seems foolish to give up the boat for something that isn't guaranteed to be worth it. Perhaps I'm just being naive by always using reasoning instead of just believing in something, but you can't blame me for not taking a huge leap.
But what about the souls of those that were polytheistic before Judaism and subsequently Christianity were preached? Can all of those people be condemned?
It's just so hard to listen to someone quote the Bible to you showing how your lack of faith was covered in the Bible. Like you agree, it's not hard to imagine that the people writing the Bible could very well have understood human nature enough to put that there as a counter. It certainly isn't an idea so profound that it could only have been divinely inspired.
whoa.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 13:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333701 is a reply to message #333436] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 14:27 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
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Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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Heh, actually that Family Guy episode is a good analogy to all of this.
A belief in God (any God) may seem foolish to some, and I will not condemn then for thinking that. What I WILL condemn, however, is those who claim that they "know" about the truth of the matter one way or the other.
It is very much a huge leap. It's is a question of faith after all... belief in the absence of proof. It's not naïvety to always use reason, just don't fall into the trap of "what is reasonable now" by automatically crying falsehood at something that counters it. It's sometimes quotes in religious arguments that if we simply followed religion we would still think that the earth was flat. Well, at the point in time that such a belief was held, it was through the use of reason. Flawed reason, yes... but still reason. Otherwise you may end up like William K. Clifford who thought that you have no right to believe in something that can not be proven.
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It is wrong in all cases to believe on insufficient evidence
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(Bold added by me for emphasis)
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 14:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: 45% of Americans believe that humans did not evolve [message #333704 is a reply to message #333702] |
Fri, 06 June 2008 14:45 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 3
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General (2 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 16:06 |
Starbuzz:
It could just be that they ALL are genuine, only one is genuine or that none of them are. There is nothing wrong with an investigation, just don't dismiss it out of hand (and I'm not saying you are) simply because it doesn't make sense.
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It would be irrational to dismiss it; if I did dismiss it, then why the need for an investigation? You see the reason (my reason) for the investigation in the first place is a recent suspicion (I reveal now) that maybe...just maybe one of the Rolex guy's might be selling the right Rolex. Maybe not a fully genuine Rolex but atleast one that MAY have some genuine parts. And I have enough logical reasons/evidence as to why I can pursue such an investigation without being branded a hypocrite.
| KIRBY-098 wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 16:08 |
Which is why it is VERY important to seek truth, and not a variety of it. Denominationalism is wrong. There was only one church in AD 33.
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I was referring to the hundreds of religions of the world today and the world yesterday but the Christian denomination concept fits in as well.
| cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 06 June 2008 13:15 |
Then there's the whole problem with how history went from polytheism to monotheism. It's hard to think that everybody thinking that every object has a soul is somehow wrong, but then suddenly a belief in one God is somehow correct.
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You do have a strong point there, cheese, but only thing to remember is that we only have knowlege of recorded history when writing was invented in the 4th millennium BC. We have no idea of the lives, the ways, beliefs, and cultures of the hundreds of generations of humans who came before and who used the oral tradition to stay together.
Of course, this means nothing other than that we may be missing out on crucial information. What is intresting here is that humans have always had some sort of deity(s); from the most ancient tribe we know of to the most ancient civilization. And that fact only adds more complexity to the ancient humans we have no real knowledge of.
[Updated on: Fri, 06 June 2008 15:58] Report message to a moderator |
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