Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Smash Bros. Brawl
| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321865 is a reply to message #321848] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 12:48   |
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R315r4z0r
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Location: New York
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Wed, 12 March 2008 14:56 |
... would be outsold by the lower quality console with little in the way of features or true innovation.
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I'm sorry... but what would you consider "true innovation?"
The PS3?! All it is is a PS2 with better graphics, wireless controller and a bluray player...
in·no·va·tion
–noun
1. something new or different introduced: numerous innovations in the high-school curriculum.
Seriously, if you don't consider Wii to have the best innovation of all the consoles, you need to check your definition on innovation.
As for quality... I think Wii also shines there too. Depending on what you mean by quality, however. If you mean physical quality, than the Wii wins in that area. That thing is basically indestructible! If you dropped a PS3 or a 360 on a hard surface from a reasonable hight, I would be surprised if it didn't receive a dent or if one feature or component stopped working. However it probably wouldn't even leave a mark on the Wii. Ever watch those "Smash my <insert console name>" videos?
If you're talking about software quality, it really depends on who you are talking about. The Wii's OS or games? Games from Nintendo somehow manage to take Wii's low processing power to make games that look like they shouldn't be able to run on the Wii (Mario Galaxy, SSBB, ect). As for the interface and OS, it isn't the greatest, but I feel it falls on par with both the 360 and PS3. (360 winning in options, PS3 winning in visuals, Wii winning in ease of use and innovativeness.)
Finally if you are talking about quality in hard ware, than I wont deny that it lacks in graphics and processing power... but seriously, because of this reason games (good games) are forced to maximize their potential on the console. (If they don't optimize all of the Wii's capabilities, than the game will probably fail..)
Also, there is backwards compatibility. Wii is compatible with most GameCube games, right out of the box, and has the ability to download even older console games. The 360 is backwards compatible with many of the Xbox's games.. but not all.. and it requires a hard drive. The PS3, from what I understand, is not very good with backwards compatibility. I know it does have backwards compatibility.. but as of what I know, it isn't very good.
I'm not trying to argue that the Wii is the *ahem* "B3stes7 c0ns0l e\/ur!!111!1!1" I'm just trying to say all consoles have their strengths and weaknesses.
PS3 - Best graphics.
360 - Best multiplayer, support, and has most games.
Wii - Best innovation, best gameplay experiance, lots of "player choice"
[Updated on: Wed, 12 March 2008 12:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321907 is a reply to message #321865] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 16:28 |
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Aircraftkiller
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| R315r4z0r wrote on Wed, 12 March 2008 15:48 |
I'm sorry... but what would you consider "true innovation?"
The PS3?! All it is is a PS2 with better graphics, wireless controller and a bluray player...
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Okay, by your logic the "wii" is nothing more than one and a half gamecubes duct taped together in a small shiny white supremacist box. The only difference is that it has wireless wiinis controllers which sense motion when you jerk them.
The PS3 is a gaming console and home multimedia platform. The "wii" has nothing but game capability for $149 less than a basic PS3 which has ten times the amount of features. With PS Home coming out in beta this month (releasing fall 08) plus the major titles coming out this year, you're going to see a lot less demand for the "wii" and a lot more attention focused on the PS3. Calling a PS3 an upgraded PS2 is accurate in the sense that Vista is a newer version of XP and MacOS Leopard is simply a new version of OSX. There's more to it than that.
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Seriously, if you don't consider Wii to have the best innovation of all the consoles, you need to check your definition on innovation.
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It's not that innovative. The wireless motion sensing is all it has going for it. Otherwise its price versus features is a gigantic ripoff.
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As for quality... I think Wii also shines there too. Depending on what you mean by quality, however. If you mean physical quality, than the Wii wins in that area. That thing is basically indestructible! If you dropped a PS3 or a 360 on a hard surface from a reasonable hight, I would be surprised if it didn't receive a dent or if one feature or component stopped working. However it probably wouldn't even leave a mark on the Wii. Ever watch those "Smash my <insert console name>" videos?
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Why would you put an expensive console up in a place where it would fall over easily? That's stupid as hell.
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If you're talking about software quality, it really depends on who you are talking about. The Wii's OS or games? Games from Nintendo somehow manage to take Wii's low processing power to make games that look like they shouldn't be able to run on the Wii (Mario Galaxy, SSBB, ect). As for the interface and OS, it isn't the greatest, but I feel it falls on par with both the 360 and PS3. (360 winning in options, PS3 winning in visuals, Wii winning in ease of use and innovativeness.)
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Wii games are mostly first party junk from Nintendo that's been recycled constantly over the past 10 years. I could play Mario on GC and get the same experience and feel that the "wii" gives.
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Finally if you are talking about quality in hard ware, than I wont deny that it lacks in graphics and processing power... but seriously, because of this reason games (good games) are forced to maximize their potential on the console. (If they don't optimize all of the Wii's capabilities, than the game will probably fail..)
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What major company are you going to see creating games for an obsolete system in the next year or two? What profits will be made from a game for a console that's already showing its age?
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Also, there is backwards compatibility. Wii is compatible with most GameCube games, right out of the box, and has the ability to download even older console games. The 360 is backwards compatible with many of the Xbox's games.. but not all.. and it requires a hard drive. The PS3, from what I understand, is not very good with backwards compatibility. I know it does have backwards compatibility.. but as of what I know, it isn't very good.
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Why the fuck would I want BC when I already own a PS2, a GC, a SNES, a NES, etc... I already have the consoles so I don't really care about BC.
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PS3 - Best graphics
360 - Best multiplayer, support, and has most games.
Wii - Best innovation, best gameplay experiance, lots of "player choice"
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You really, really need to try out a PS3's lineup of games. Having a shit-powered system like the "wii" doesn't mean that all of its games are magically made better to play. Go try High Velocity Bowling, fl0w, Warhawk, etc and then tell me that those games aren't fun.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321908 is a reply to message #321871] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 16:46 |
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nikki6ixx
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| Zion Fox wrote on Wed, 12 March 2008 13:57 |
The PS3 is for those of us who enjoy the technical side of computing.
The xbox is for those of us who enjoy taking drugs and drinking.
The Wii is for those of us who are not yet old enough to cross the road alone.
Full stop.
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Maybe that's why my newest console is an SNES; manufacturers forgot about the 'fun' quotient, and left us casual gamers in the dust.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321924 is a reply to message #321911] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 18:56 |
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Viking
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Registered: July 2005
Location: Earth
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This should be fun! 
QUOTES
"The Renegade community revolves around having something awesome, and not sharing it so you can be on top of the mountain." -Canadacdn
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
| Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 |
...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Awesome l337 people= Icedog90, Blazea58, Canadacdn, Crimson, jonwil
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321933 is a reply to message #321340] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 20:38 |
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Aircraftkiller
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PS3 MP works with usernames over the PS Network which is free unless a developer charges for game access, like FFXI on PS2. As for the PC handling media features, it's nowhere near as slick as the PS3 and you don't have to load different programs to handle photos, video, music, etc... Plus you're not limited by having to use a wireless keyboard/mouse and fiddle with display settings and/or buy a conversion box to output to TV format.
I guarantee a PS3 makes video playback, photo viewing, and music playback a lot more immersive than a PC does when hooked up to a TV. I can't see myself having 10 people over and trying to use XP as a party machine like I did when we were using the PS3 for music playback on the Earth visualization.
BTW: If you won't buy a console for a feature your PC shares, why get a "wii" when it plays games that look like Renegade's detail level? I have to say that the media server function is a great feature that the Xbox and PS3 share which allows for video/photo/music playback on the consoles over LAN. That alone is worth more than the "wii"
[Updated on: Wed, 12 March 2008 20:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321947 is a reply to message #321340] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 22:16 |
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Just to add my thoughts in this I would buy a pc over the ps3 or xbox360 any day, most of the games are released on the pc anyways so why buy some extra thing when a pc can handle it and do lots more, does a ps3 or xbox 360 have the same expandable hardware as the pc? NO. Can they be used to store important files or word documents etc... NO. Can they be used to make games? NO.
The Wii now sure in some ways is not as good as the other consoles but at least it is different, a pc can do pretty much anything a xbox360 and ps3 can do, a pc CANNOT do what the Wii does.
Oh and BTW: You can hook a pc up to a tv.
Lone0001.ca
C&C Files
[Updated on: Wed, 12 March 2008 22:20] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321954 is a reply to message #321340] |
Wed, 12 March 2008 23:09 |
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Aircraftkiller
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Obviously. That's why I said "fiddle with display settings and/or buy a conversion box to output to TV format."
Speaking generally, HDTV penetration hasn't come to a point where every PC user can hook up their PC via DVI-HDMI cable to a shiny new LG box. A lot of people are still using SDTV/EDTV sets which means you'll need a conversion box nine out of ten times (unless you're one of the consumers who has s-video output on your video card) so that you can convert the radically different PC video signal to analog s-video/composite video signals. In some cases people require RF adapters and honestly, at that point, it's not worth the conversion because of the digital-analog switching becoming a major kink in signal quality.
A PC would need to be upgraded to a 7 core processor with a powerful video card to equal the power of the PS3. I doubt you have the money for that. While it's true that a PC can do more than a PS3/Xbox, bear in mind that Sony designs consoles with a 10 year lifespan. I'd like to see you run games on XP in ten years with your current hardware. With that in mind, you need to upgrade PCs to stay on the cutting edge. The upgrades themselves are rather expensive and can run over $1,000 if you're just buying video cards, RAM, and a new processor. Eventually the motherboard needs to be replaced when some fancy technology that evolves past PCI-Express comes out.
I love my PC, so don't get me wrong. But don't presume to think that a PC does everything a console does. There's few games on PC that support motion sensing (or any you'd want to buy considering that a motion sensing controller would be expensive, adding to the cost of the game) along with the fact that PCs aren't dedicated gaming machines for most people. I use mine for 3DS Max rendering and scene design. I write research papers with it. I play CounterStrike Source with it, download music, and watch videos online.
Most of that I can do with a PS3 if I upgraded to Linux and ran Windows on it. The "wii" sucks, if you want to waste your money on it - go right ahead. I think I'll slap down money on Burnout Paradise next. Or, perhaps I'll go with some extra controllers when we get more bowling tournaments going on over here. It's not like the PS3 doesn't support seven controllers at once or anything.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321971 is a reply to message #321340] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 04:34 |
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GEORGE ZIMMER
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Whee, console wars. I might aswell jump in for the hell of it.
Anyways.
Renegade actually can be used for decent graphics still. Look at Reborn and many of the mods and such nowadays. They have quite a bit of detail in them. Really, Renegade just lacks reflective materials and a few other things that make most video games "shiney". There's already bloom, detailed shadows, and other various things added in scripts 3.+. So using Renegade as a reference for a game with bad graphics isn't exactly the best thing. While I agree the graphics still could be upgraded (Mostly physics wise, like ragdoll physics), they're certainly not bad.
Which brings me to another point. PS3 and Xbox360 games focus way too damn much on detail. I recall a game called "Sonic the Hedgehog" or "Sonic Next Gen" as it's called by some people having VERY good graphics, and was one of the first "next gen" games.
But a ton of people say the gameplay is shitty and it doesn't seem to focus on much outside the visuals. I've not played it myself so I can't really say, but it seems as if most games for the PS3/Xbox360 are given the ability to have high visuals. Which means gaming mega-companies like EA who seem to just care about visuals and detail are given the ability to continue to not have to care about gameplay aslong as they can max out the graphics.
Wheras a game with the Wii, having a limit on the graphics is a good thing. Why? This means that game developers for the Wii are pretty much forced to have to make it have good gameplay. Take SSBB for example. I've not played it, but it looks jam packed with TONS of features and gameplay modes. Even the visuals looks acceptable, as it's not an FPS where you're right next to the battlefield and are going to notice if the pebbles in the dirt are bump mapped or modeled.
As far as I'm concerned, if it has great gameplay with graphics that aren't ridiculously shitty, it's a decent game. Because games are meant to be about gameplay. I'm really dissapointed that so many games are about visuals nowadays than they were back in the Genesis and SNES days.
I STILL will play the classic Sonic the Hedgehog games. Granted I've lost my Genesis, but I can still play them on things like the sonic mega collection pack for GC and PS2 (PS2 version for me since I've not gotten a GC), and they're still probably some of my favorite games.
Partly why I really want a Wii is because it's still a video game system that emphasizes gameplay and innovation over insane graphics. While I'll agree that to a certain extent graphics also made a good video game, gameplay should be the most important aspect, THEN graphics. I've never felt you needed a million dollar budget video game story to make a decent video game either, but a combination of all 3 can always make it awesome (Half Life 2, anyone?).
tl;dr: PS3 is if you like graphics, Xbox360 if you like multiplayer console games (And can't afford/don't want to spend the time getting a comp to run those games or just want Halo 3), and Wii is if you like innovative and awesome gameplay.
PS: If the Wii isn't so innovative as you claim, why is it I've never seen a game on the PS2 that allows players to swing around a virtual sword using a virtual controller that has motion tracking? Or on the PS3 of Xbox360 for that matter.
Toggle Spoiler| Scrin wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 13:22 |
| cAmpa wrote on Sat, 24 January 2009 12:45 |
Scrin, stop pming people to get the building bars.
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FUCK YOU AND THIS SHIT GAME WITH YOUR SCRIPTS!!! I HAVE ASKING YOU AND ANOTHER NOOBS HERE ABOUT HELP WITH THAT BUILDING ICONS FEATURES FOR YEARS, BUT YOU KEEP IGNORING ME AND KEEP WRITE SHIT, SO BURN YOU AND YOUR ASSLICKERS FRIENDS, THIS TIME I'M NOT COME BACK!!!!!!!!!   
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #321976 is a reply to message #321961] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 08:15 |
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Aircraftkiller
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| Zion Fox wrote on Thu, 13 March 2008 06:15 |
I have to point out and make you realize that some of the things developed, graphical wise, in the Wii games (heck, even GameCube games) weren't developed in the Renegade engine, so please refrain from lying.
If you need proof, just take a look at the vast ammount of detail on "StarFox Adventures" for the Gamecube. The detail on that, far surpasses anything Renegade will ever fish out (unless engine coders get the source).
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I said detail level, not that it was running the Renegade engine. There's a big difference between perceived detail and actual capability. Since most every "wii" game is simplistic looking compared to anything out there for any other system, including PC, it's pretty easy to see how Renegade's lack of true detail is synonymous with the "wii" and its lack of graphics power. Believe it or not, some of us want to advance the capabilities of graphical power, not set it back every time a console comes out.
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Wheras a game with the Wii, having a limit on the graphics is a good thing. Why? This means that game developers for the Wii are pretty much forced to have to make it have good gameplay.
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No it doesn't. A game design team doesn't have programmers making graphics and the artists aren't programming, that's highly inefficient. If that's confusing to you, so is the concept ingrained in people's heads since the "wii" came out that a low powered system will suddenly revolutionize gaming because the developers can't concentrate on graphics. I got news for you kid: Lack of graphics makes developers stay away.
Unreal 3 isn't coming to the "wii" and coincidentally, it's what my college uses as its engine of choice for game design.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/No-UT3-for-the-Wii-46349.shtml
I'm looking forward to playing against PC users on my PS3, since an update to UT3 will enable PS3/PC fighting. On a "wii"? Haha, not happening.
Here's how the lineup really is for the consoles so the simplistic argument that the PS3 and Xbox are only graphical in nature:
PS3: Graphics, gameplay, loads of fun
Xbox: Graphics, gameplay, Halo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, etc...
Wii: Pseudo gameplay, Mario, Zelda, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc...
If you want to waste your money on an inferior system, go for it. Within a couple of years, it'll be obsolete and the two consoles I like will be up on top until Nintendo makes another underpowered console that they'll charge you, yet again, another $249.99 to play with. Enjoy having no multimedia playback, proper online gaming, or insane graphics to go with that oh-so-good gameplay, sucker.
Oh by the way: I'm not a "fanboy" by any means of the word. I just prefer systems that don't suck. If Nintendo pulls their head out of their ass and makes a real contender for gaming, watch me pick it up.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #322030 is a reply to message #321954] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 13:04 |
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Renx
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Thu, 13 March 2008 02:09 |
A PC would need to be upgraded to a 7 core processor with a powerful video card to equal the power of the PS3.
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Cell is not just a "7-core processor." It has a single main core, much like any normal single core CPU. This core runs the OS and feeds information to the 7 other "smaller" cores. Smaller probably isn't the right word for it, but you get the picture. These cores are for running mainly just applications, and don't contribute to running the PS3's OS. They handle one thing at a time like any normal CPU core, so unless the game is designed to use multiple cores it will use only one, all 7 of these cores don't magically work together to make games run super fast.
I like the idea of Cell but it's certainly not the end-all be-all of CPUs. A capable dual-core and video card can also meet or exceed the PS3s performance for today's game's anyway. It might be able to keep up fairly well in the future, but probably at the cost of extra development time.
~Canucck
[Updated on: Thu, 13 March 2008 13:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #322032 is a reply to message #321340] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 13:25 |
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Zion
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Actually, both Aircraftkiller and RenX are incorrect about the PS3's processor.
It's actually an 8 core processor.
7 of these perform tasks, the OS for example runs on one, graphics on another, sound on another, the HDTV output on another, inputs on another, etc etc. The 8th core is used as a failsafe incase one of these other cores fails.
How Stuff Works.com - Playstation 3 Article
| Howstuffworks.com |
The setup of the Cell processor is like having a team of processors all working together on one chip to handle the large computational workload needed to run next-generation video games. In order to understand how the Cell processor works, it helps to look at each of the major parts that comprise this processor.
The "Processing Element" of the Cell is a 3.2-GHz PowerPC core equipped with 512 KB of L2 cache. The PowerPC core is a type of microprocessor similar to the one you would find running the Apple G5. It's a powerful processor on its own and could easily run a computer by itself; but in the Cell, the PowerPC core is not the sole processor. Instead, it's more of a "managing processor." It delegates processing to the eight other processors on the chip, the Synergistic Processing Elements.
The computational workload comes in through the PowerPC core. The core then assesses the work that needs to be done, looks at what the SPEs are currently processing and decides how to best dole out the workload to achieve maximum efficiency.
The SPEs used in the Cell processor are each SIMD (Single Instruction, Multiple Data), 128-bit vector processors. Vector processors are designed to quickly process several pieces of data at once. They were commonly used in the 1980s in large, powerful, scientific supercomputers and were created as a faster alternative to the more common scalar processor. Scalar processors can only work one data element at a time. Despite this limitation, advances in scalar design and performance have made the use of vector processors very rare these days in most computers. However, because of the vector processor's ability to handle several data elements at once, IBM resurrected this design for the Cell. There are eight SPEs on the chip, but only seven of them handle processing. The eighth SPE is built in as redundancy in case one of the other seven fails.
The SPEs each come loaded with 256 KB SRAM. This high-speed memory helps each SPE crunch numbers quickly. The SPE memory is also visible to the main Processing Element. This allows the PowerPC Core to utilize the resources of each SPE in the most efficient way possible. All of this amounts to unprecedented power for a piece of consumer electronics.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #322033 is a reply to message #321340] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 13:33 |
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Crimson
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Well, as a not-so-serious hardcore gamer, I love the gameplay on the Wii and couldn't care less about graphics. Wii games are very innovative and unique. Heck, we got my stepdad to play Mario Party 8 and I don't think he's ever played a video game in his life.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #322034 is a reply to message #321340] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 13:33 |
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Renx
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Um, that explain exactly what I just said but with bigger words and less detail. A core is also disabled for the Cell in the PS3, so there is one PPE core and 7 SPE cores instead of 8 like in the normal Cell. The PPE core runs the OS, the rest run applications
~Canucck
[Updated on: Thu, 13 March 2008 13:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Smash Bros. Brawl [message #322038 is a reply to message #321976] |
Thu, 13 March 2008 13:47 |
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nikki6ixx
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Thu, 13 March 2008 09:15 |
multimedia playback, proper online gaming, or insane graphics
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There is a good chunk of us that find absolutely no value in those features.
However, I have yet to find any real persuasive feature on the Wii, that really makes me want to buy one.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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won't be able to play it though until I get home(in Canada).
