Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Bittorrent and File Sharing
| Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317006] |
Wed, 13 February 2008 19:19  |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I started this topic because an angry mod would didn't want to be proven wrong close a topic that was on the topic subject and blah blah blah. Anyway, this will bring what people THINK they know to show them how little they know. Bittorrent is illegal? You are dumb.
I have no idea where to start but here it goes:
Point 1)Bittorrent is 100% legal in every single country. How you ask? The actual .torrent file is only metadata, they contain NO copyrighted material.
Point 2)Bittorrent especially for "backup" purposes is 100% legal, stated by federal law (even in the US), despite what companies/corporations try to tell you.
Point 3)The way it works, the .torrent file connects you to users with the full (or sometimes partial) copy of the rquested file, you download from the "swarm", and you upload, which turns into their download speed from you. The website/tracker does NOT host any copyrighted material either.
Point 4)In a recent HUGE case between the MPAA/RIAA vs American College students (some 15,000 users in total), the MPAA/RIAA lost because the court found Bittorrent can not be held reliable for what users upload/distributed, and the fact that it can also be used for legal purposes (legaltorrents.com)
And finally @ that mod:
1)demonoid got shutdown? LOL. You have proven your lack of knowledge about this subject already.
2)elite torrents is a TOTTALY different matter, it was a private site meaning you need donations to gain access to the site, and the only reason they lost in court was because the stupid judge assumed that the money went towards the personal wealth of the admin vs annoymous paypal accounts which were used ONLY to pay for the server (which was the cause), and making money off "pirated" material is a serious offense, so infact, the site was NOT shutdown because of the BT side of things.
More information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent_%28protocol%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA
My credibility?
-mod on the worlds 8th largest bittorrent site/tracker
-been using P2P for about 8 years
-I download 120GB+/month
My: Videos/Website/Forums
[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2008 19:22] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317024 is a reply to message #317006] |
Wed, 13 February 2008 22:20  |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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BT is perfectly legal, and many companies use it to send data to consumers.
But the argument was about someone downloading copyrighted material which is illegal.
Still, this is one of those rare instances where I'll agree with trooprm02, in that the moderators may have shot the messenger.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317075 is a reply to message #317006] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 08:40 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I never claimed the technology used was illegal. The fact all of these torrent sites share links that help you acquire illegal content is illegal, though.
Helping someone to do something illegal is also illegal, in case you didn't know this.
How does the fact you download 120+ GB of data, most of which is probably copyright protected content, give you any form of credibility? It rather affects your credibility negatively. Same for being part of the bit torrent administration team...
So yes, a torrent-file would probably be legal. Using them to spread copyright protected content isn't.
One should see this topic in its context, though. Someone asked on this forum where he could download Renegade full version. Trooprm explained him where he could get it and how he could use it woithout a valid serial. I moved his post to the silo.
Then afterwards he started his "torrent sites aren't illegal" posts... This will be my final post on this issue. It's not as if we're going to come to an agreement here, are we? I'll keep removing links you might post to spread illegal content, though.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 08:49] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317077 is a reply to message #317006] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 08:56 |
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IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Sharing a link to a not so legal content is fine, hosting the legal content is not.
But, this is really pointless, I can bet over half the users here are happy to download whatever they want, only a small selection of the community are anti-p2p.
[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 08:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317106 is a reply to message #317006] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 13:31 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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So your saying if I post a link to a bittorrent website, you would edit my post to remove the link? May I ask why? For example, Isohunt recently was fighting a lawsuit as well, and I could go into details (I know the admin somewhat personally), but even in the AMERICAN court system, ALL charges were dismissed, and the website was deemed legal, partially on the fact that it can (and is) also used for legal purposes. Why remove links to a perfectly legal site?
@Blazer, in a case last week, a Belgium ISP, "tele2" was ordered to block access to the pirate bay, for "conspiracy to commite copyright infringment", and surprisingly it passed. Guess what...the law didn't even last till this week. The EU high court (after being appealed) ruled that the ban on a LEGAL website infringed on the privacy and rights of Tele2 users, AND that such a law in the first place was ILLEGAL, and its gets more complicated but basically, ISP have NO RIGHT to monitor let alone decide for themselves what their users are doing.
In Saudi Arabia, a similiar case, the country actually firewalled several BT websites, it lasted about a month before ISP customers protested and threated to leave for a few smaller ISP's not firewalled, all those sites were unblocked.
@Goztow, I was directing him to a bittorrent website to dowload a "backup" copy of Renegade, which again, 100% legal, in both my country and his.
My: Videos/Website/Forums
[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 13:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317114 is a reply to message #317006] |
Thu, 14 February 2008 13:57 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Quote: |
@Blazer, in a case last week, a Belgium ISP, "tele2" was ordered to block access to the pirate bay, for "conspiracy to commite copyright infringment", and surprisingly it passed. Guess what...the law didn't even last till this week. The EU high court (after being appealed) ruled that the ban on a LEGAL website infringed on the privacy and rights of Tele2 users, AND that such a law in the first place was ILLEGAL, and its gets more complicated but basically, ISP have NO RIGHT to monitor let alone decide for themselves what their users are doing.
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Wow, now you're the expert here but...
* it was Tele 2 in Denmark, not in Belgium
* not the blocking itself but the motivation of the judge was against the European laws who say that they can't be responsible for the data passing on their routers (more or less). It had nothing to do with the rights of the users, though that would indeed fit your story better.
Just to correct your incorrect info.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 13:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317200 is a reply to message #317006] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 00:28 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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The "law" isn't illegal, as I said: the motivation of the judge was found to be against European legislation. There's a big difference.
If PB wants to counter sue, then they'll have to proove damages. That will be very hard as it seems that all this publicity has made their number of visitors go way up and Tele2 never actually blocked their adress.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317281 is a reply to message #317006] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 13:29 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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I love my torrents. I'll admit, 99% of what I torrent is copyrighted material that I do NOT own the rights to. However, I can easily justify this...
What I torrent is mostly music. I don't just use this music for "trials" and then delete it. I do keep it on my harddrive, but if I like the music enough, I will go out and buy the CD for it. Case in point? Yesterday, I purchased Clutch's "Blast Tyrant" and today bought their "From Beale Street to Oblivion" album that I originally torrented last night.
Like it has been proven, those that download music are much more likely to actually purchase music in a store. Damn us "thieves".
Oh, and Demonoid was only shut down because their host is a pussy company that couldn't stand the heat from the CRIA. Fucking wimps.
Also, remember 10/23. RIP OiNK.
Edit: Goztow, you say that "helping" people do something illegal is also illegal, right? Only if their intention is to help people to do things illegally. If a shop owner sells a guy a gun and the guy murders someone, the gun shop owner is NOT an accessory. Nor are torrent sites that allow people to download music illegally. The premise of a torrent site isn't necessarily to illegally download copyrighted content. Sure, we can all agree that most sites are well aware that their trackers are used to illegally download music, but that is a moot point. It's not the purpose of the tracker, so they are not an accessory.
whoa.
[Updated on: Fri, 15 February 2008 13:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317286 is a reply to message #317006] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 13:50 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonoid#In_Canada
Yes, it seems that they weren't shut down, they just needed to find a country where they could find someone willing to host their servers... Same thing, tbh.
Cheesesoda, I agree with your definition but the comparison doesn't fully apply. Torrent sites could filter out copyrighted content but they choose not to. They got a lot of moderators, like our friend trooprm, they could even make some kind of "don't show publically unless aprooved by a mod" - system. Just like youtube will soon need to apply filtering software.
Obviously they wouldn't be anywhere as popular as they are now if they did. + they do make money from the advertising on their website, though they might claim that it's only used for covering hosting costs.
I don't agree that torrent sites don't have the intention to do help someone do something illegal. The admins are responsible for what is on their website, just like Crimson is responsible for what comes on this website. A gun shop owner also needs to check if the one buying it has a license.
Choosing to ignore what happens is not a reason to claim innocence.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317288 is a reply to message #317006] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 13:58 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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You are an idiot for arguing with people who think torrents are illegal.
They aren't illegal. But what they ARE is a waste of time. I don't even bother with them any more. The only things that I have ever used a torrent to download was for Anime.. but there is IRC for that now..
Saying torrents are illegal is like saying the internet is illegal. If a torrent website gets shut down, it is because it is hosting torrents that are used to download pirated programs. The entire use of torrents though is not illegal. Just like P2P programs like Limewire, Bearshare, ect, aren't illegal either.
[Updated on: Fri, 15 February 2008 14:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Bittorrent and File Sharing [message #317290 is a reply to message #317286] |
Fri, 15 February 2008 14:05 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Goztow wrote on Fri, 15 February 2008 15:50 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonoid#In_Canada
Yes, it seems that they weren't shut down, they just needed to find a country where they could find someone willing to host their servers... Same thing, tbh.
Cheesesoda, I agree with your definition but the comparison doesn't fully apply. Torrent sites could filter out copyrighted content but they choose not to. They got a lot of moderators, like our friend trooprm, they could even make some kind of "don't show publically unless aprooved by a mod" - system. Just like youtube will soon need to apply filtering software.
Obviously they wouldn't be anywhere as popular as they are now if they did. + they do make money from the advertising on their website, though they might claim that it's only used for covering hosting costs.
I don't agree that torrent sites don't have the intention to do help someone do something illegal. The admins are responsible for what is on their website, just like Crimson is responsible for what comes on this website. A gun shop owner also needs to check if the one buying it has a license.
Choosing to ignore what happens is not a reason to claim innocence.
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Just because I download copyrighted content doesn't mean I'm downloading it illegally, either. If I download a movie, it could be that I have the DVD, but I would just rather not waste the time ripping it then encoding it.
Also, I don't see why it should be considered "illegal" if someone downloads a copyrighted album, and then deletes it, or if they own the CD, but don't want to rip it or have lost the album. There are plenty of reasons why copyrighted content isn't necessarily downloaded for illegal purposes.
As for sites like TPB, they take the strict stance of being the means to sharing, but they don't moderate what they have. This, at one point, even included child porn. You could find child porn on TPB, since they didn't moderate anything.
Edit: I love torrents. It's great for finding new music. I wouldn't like half the bands I do if it weren't for "illegal" sharing.
whoa.
[Updated on: Fri, 15 February 2008 14:07] Report message to a moderator |
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