Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » question to christians about jesus
| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316108 is a reply to message #316102] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 22:05   |
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Chimp
Messages: 399
Registered: December 2007
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| bisen11 wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 22:39 |
| MWright967 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2008 20:42 |
| bisen11 wrote on Tue, 05 February 2008 19:21 |
| MWright967 wrote on Fri, 01 February 2008 23:45 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Fri, 01 February 2008 19:48 |
He knows it happens. He gave us free will to do whatever we want. That is why there is crime in this world. You think that God wants that man to rob the old lady? You honestly think that? If that is the case, you are just a complete religion idiot.
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Yet God could stop it if he wanted to. Then the old lady thus dies, and the robber goes to hell. I'll say it again, considering you appear to be too pumped on religious juice to understand this: According to your bible, God sees all, knows all, and PREDESTINES HISTORY BEFORE IT HAPPENS. THUS THE APOCALYPSE. Which means he could stop the robber, he could save the robber from eternal damnation and the old lady from a too short death, yet he doesn't to fulfill the prophecy of destruction which is yet to come. And you say we have free will? Interesting.
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But if the old lady was a good and faithful woman to god then she would be sent to heaven where she would experience eternal bliss. Therefor it would be better to die and go to heaven rather than to stay on earth.
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IF the old lady was good. She could be...''So-so'', and could go to limbo, purgatory, etc. And hell, the way the scriptures read, you can condemn yourself to an eternity of misery for doing a few mild things wrong. The old lady isn't necessarily good. It even says in the bible that ''Walking through the gates of heaven is a task for those who are pure of heart''. Not many people are ''pure of heart''.
Also, heaven is described as a wondrous and happy place, but it never says you will be completely happy. You won't see your children, your friends, family, anything, until many years pass and they as well, and even then, they may not go to heaven. See how this starts to riccochet?
How can I have everlasting happiness without the ones who care for me and that I spend my life with? Oh, wait, I'll use the argument of every priest and pastor in the world, ''With god, all things are possible''. Lol.
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A person can get out of purgatory and go to heaven. Purgatory is a place of clensing one's heart and becoming ready to enter heaven. I believe god is very forgiving. The main thing he wants is for you to believe in him. Things like murder however I believe will get you into hell aside from maybe to protect other people from being killed.
As to heaven, well neither of us knows what it is truly like. For all we know there are replicas of our family that we don't even know are replicas. Does time even exist in heaven? I believe I have heard that your mind is truly opened when you enter heaven so I doubt one's thought process will be the same as it is on earth. It's likely that everyone cares for everyone.
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I'll steal a little snipet from starbuzz:
LOL @ people acting like all of this stuff is 100% fact.
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316260 is a reply to message #316248] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 19:34 |
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Starbuzz
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 18:07 |
Ok, MrWright. You find me something more historically accurate from the time period than the bible and I might consider your arguments valid.
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He is "loling" about people who have visited heaven, hell, and the so-called purgatory and have come back to post here on Renegadeforums.com to inform the "sinners" of their impending doom.
[Updated on: Fri, 08 February 2008 19:34] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316262 is a reply to message #316260] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 19:56 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399
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Commander |
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| Starbuzz wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 20:34 |
| Muad Dib15 wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 18:07 |
Ok, MrWright. You find me something more historically accurate from the time period than the bible and I might consider your arguments valid.
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He is "loling" about people who have visited heaven, hell, and the so-called purgatory and have come back to post here on Renegadeforums.com to inform the "sinners" of their impending doom.
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And thuh-ank you Starbuzz, couldn't have said it better myself.
Also, heres a little something for you Muad, I have a little something far better than the bible. Its called an 8th grade science workbook...And uh, the last time I checked, visiting abstract multi-demonsional realms existing out of time and space wasn't possible for humans. My bad 
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316275 is a reply to message #316067] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 22:54 |
Sn1per74*
Messages: 939
Registered: April 2006
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| MWright967 wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 19:03 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 17:56 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 23:16 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 15:44 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 11:48 |
You do realize you just said, ''If we say screw you holy spirit'' we go to hell, then you just said, ''But we won't go to hell because Jesus died for our sins''. Contradiction much? I'll repeat, if the first part is correct, we all go to hell for cursing the holy spirit. That sounds really aweosome. Lets imagine the 2nd part is correct. So wait, if Jesus dies for my sins, I can do anything I want. Woo hoo! Oh but wait, then that nullifys like.......The rest of the bible...Gosh darn.
Also, what do you mean ''hell and torture are tests to see if we can get back into heaven''? No they aren't. Lol. I have news for you, once you're in hell, its over my friend. Even Jesus sais, ''Hell is a furnance in which god burns evil for all eternity''.
So wait, Jesus dies for our sins.....Yet if we commit sins we go to hell. Interesting. So pretty much, God sent old Jesus down, got him killed for no reason, and we still go out and do bad stuff AND get horribly punished for it for all of eternity. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice 
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You can do anything you want, and if you feel bad about it and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive you. But if you do something and say I'm sorry and don't mean it, he won't forgive you.
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Okay. Lets go with that for a minute.
So by your standards, if I do something bad and I apologize, I'm good. Yet, if I do something bad, and apologize, and I don't mean it, I'm going to hell? Okay. So wait a minute. I remember in my youth calling my mother a ''Bitch'' once. ''Thou shalt not curse thy ancestors'', I believe were the words of Jesus. Now my dad smacked me and said to apologize to her. I did, but I didn't mean it. So I'm going to hell?
Heres a better example. What if I'm a rich guy, and I give up my money for cancer research but I don't really mean it, I just do it to get in to heaven. Even if I WANTED to mean it, I couldn't really mean it. So I'm going to hell....Again...?
Lol.
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You wouldn't go to hell for either of those. And how is giving away money and not meaning it, the same as apologizing and not meaning? It's not the same.
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Uhm. I wouldn't go to hell? Didn't you just say I'd go to hell for doing either of those lol??? And also, its the same for this reason. I'm giving money away to make myself feel good and be a ''good'' person, so I'll get into heaven. But by your logic, if I'm saying or doing something just to get into heaven, I get boned. Cool
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I can't tell someone there going to hell. Nobody knows what's the limit. There's not a list, so you just got to live life the best you can. But, God does however, forgive anybody for anything. How is that a mean god?
Creator: AoBFrost
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316278 is a reply to message #316275] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 23:22 |
Rocko
Messages: 833
Registered: January 2007
Location: Long Beach, California
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| Sn1per74* wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 23:54 |
| MWright967 wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 19:03 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 17:56 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 23:16 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 15:44 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 11:48 |
You do realize you just said, ''If we say screw you holy spirit'' we go to hell, then you just said, ''But we won't go to hell because Jesus died for our sins''. Contradiction much? I'll repeat, if the first part is correct, we all go to hell for cursing the holy spirit. That sounds really aweosome. Lets imagine the 2nd part is correct. So wait, if Jesus dies for my sins, I can do anything I want. Woo hoo! Oh but wait, then that nullifys like.......The rest of the bible...Gosh darn.
Also, what do you mean ''hell and torture are tests to see if we can get back into heaven''? No they aren't. Lol. I have news for you, once you're in hell, its over my friend. Even Jesus sais, ''Hell is a furnance in which god burns evil for all eternity''.
So wait, Jesus dies for our sins.....Yet if we commit sins we go to hell. Interesting. So pretty much, God sent old Jesus down, got him killed for no reason, and we still go out and do bad stuff AND get horribly punished for it for all of eternity. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice
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You can do anything you want, and if you feel bad about it and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive you. But if you do something and say I'm sorry and don't mean it, he won't forgive you.
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Okay. Lets go with that for a minute.
So by your standards, if I do something bad and I apologize, I'm good. Yet, if I do something bad, and apologize, and I don't mean it, I'm going to hell? Okay. So wait a minute. I remember in my youth calling my mother a ''Bitch'' once. ''Thou shalt not curse thy ancestors'', I believe were the words of Jesus. Now my dad smacked me and said to apologize to her. I did, but I didn't mean it. So I'm going to hell?
Heres a better example. What if I'm a rich guy, and I give up my money for cancer research but I don't really mean it, I just do it to get in to heaven. Even if I WANTED to mean it, I couldn't really mean it. So I'm going to hell....Again...?
Lol.
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You wouldn't go to hell for either of those. And how is giving away money and not meaning it, the same as apologizing and not meaning? It's not the same.
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Uhm. I wouldn't go to hell? Didn't you just say I'd go to hell for doing either of those lol??? And also, its the same for this reason. I'm giving money away to make myself feel good and be a ''good'' person, so I'll get into heaven. But by your logic, if I'm saying or doing something just to get into heaven, I get boned. Cool
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I can't tell someone there going to hell. Nobody knows what's the limit. There's not a list, so you just got to live life the best you can. But, God does however, forgive anybody for anything. How is that a mean god?
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i've said this to another bible thumper before but, have you talked to god lately?
black and proud
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316283 is a reply to message #316275] |
Fri, 08 February 2008 23:47 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 3
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Sn1per74* wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 23:54 |
I can't tell someone there going to hell. Nobody knows what's the limit. There's not a list, so you just got to live life the best you can. But, God does however, forgive anybody for anything. How is that a mean god?
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I know the limit. You cannot get to heaven if you do not live like them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish
| IronWarrior wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 07:33 |
Religious people don't understand the words of "logic" or "reason" it is beyond them.
But hey!, it's their freedom to believe in a man made idea, who are we to bash them for that? xD
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Sorry I missed this, Iron. I agree fully but what will the world be if men refuse to debate their differences?
[Updated on: Sat, 09 February 2008 09:59] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316369 is a reply to message #316278] |
Sat, 09 February 2008 22:40 |
Sn1per74*
Messages: 939
Registered: April 2006
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| Rocko wrote on Sat, 09 February 2008 00:22 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 23:54 |
| MWright967 wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 19:03 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 17:56 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 23:16 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 15:44 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 11:48 |
You do realize you just said, ''If we say screw you holy spirit'' we go to hell, then you just said, ''But we won't go to hell because Jesus died for our sins''. Contradiction much? I'll repeat, if the first part is correct, we all go to hell for cursing the holy spirit. That sounds really aweosome. Lets imagine the 2nd part is correct. So wait, if Jesus dies for my sins, I can do anything I want. Woo hoo! Oh but wait, then that nullifys like.......The rest of the bible...Gosh darn.
Also, what do you mean ''hell and torture are tests to see if we can get back into heaven''? No they aren't. Lol. I have news for you, once you're in hell, its over my friend. Even Jesus sais, ''Hell is a furnance in which god burns evil for all eternity''.
So wait, Jesus dies for our sins.....Yet if we commit sins we go to hell. Interesting. So pretty much, God sent old Jesus down, got him killed for no reason, and we still go out and do bad stuff AND get horribly punished for it for all of eternity. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice
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You can do anything you want, and if you feel bad about it and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive you. But if you do something and say I'm sorry and don't mean it, he won't forgive you.
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Okay. Lets go with that for a minute.
So by your standards, if I do something bad and I apologize, I'm good. Yet, if I do something bad, and apologize, and I don't mean it, I'm going to hell? Okay. So wait a minute. I remember in my youth calling my mother a ''Bitch'' once. ''Thou shalt not curse thy ancestors'', I believe were the words of Jesus. Now my dad smacked me and said to apologize to her. I did, but I didn't mean it. So I'm going to hell?
Heres a better example. What if I'm a rich guy, and I give up my money for cancer research but I don't really mean it, I just do it to get in to heaven. Even if I WANTED to mean it, I couldn't really mean it. So I'm going to hell....Again...?
Lol.
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You wouldn't go to hell for either of those. And how is giving away money and not meaning it, the same as apologizing and not meaning? It's not the same.
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Uhm. I wouldn't go to hell? Didn't you just say I'd go to hell for doing either of those lol??? And also, its the same for this reason. I'm giving money away to make myself feel good and be a ''good'' person, so I'll get into heaven. But by your logic, if I'm saying or doing something just to get into heaven, I get boned. Cool
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I can't tell someone there going to hell. Nobody knows what's the limit. There's not a list, so you just got to live life the best you can. But, God does however, forgive anybody for anything. How is that a mean god?
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i've said this to another bible thumper before but, have you talked to god lately?
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Yes. Have you?
Creator: AoBFrost
[Updated on: Sat, 09 February 2008 22:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316375 is a reply to message #316369] |
Sat, 09 February 2008 23:47 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399
Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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| Sn1per74* wrote on Sat, 09 February 2008 23:40 |
| Rocko wrote on Sat, 09 February 2008 00:22 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 23:54 |
| MWright967 wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 19:03 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 17:56 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 23:16 |
| Sn1per74* wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 15:44 |
| MWright967 wrote on Wed, 06 February 2008 11:48 |
You do realize you just said, ''If we say screw you holy spirit'' we go to hell, then you just said, ''But we won't go to hell because Jesus died for our sins''. Contradiction much? I'll repeat, if the first part is correct, we all go to hell for cursing the holy spirit. That sounds really aweosome. Lets imagine the 2nd part is correct. So wait, if Jesus dies for my sins, I can do anything I want. Woo hoo! Oh but wait, then that nullifys like.......The rest of the bible...Gosh darn.
Also, what do you mean ''hell and torture are tests to see if we can get back into heaven''? No they aren't. Lol. I have news for you, once you're in hell, its over my friend. Even Jesus sais, ''Hell is a furnance in which god burns evil for all eternity''.
So wait, Jesus dies for our sins.....Yet if we commit sins we go to hell. Interesting. So pretty much, God sent old Jesus down, got him killed for no reason, and we still go out and do bad stuff AND get horribly punished for it for all of eternity. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice
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You can do anything you want, and if you feel bad about it and ask for forgiveness he WILL forgive you. But if you do something and say I'm sorry and don't mean it, he won't forgive you.
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Okay. Lets go with that for a minute.
So by your standards, if I do something bad and I apologize, I'm good. Yet, if I do something bad, and apologize, and I don't mean it, I'm going to hell? Okay. So wait a minute. I remember in my youth calling my mother a ''Bitch'' once. ''Thou shalt not curse thy ancestors'', I believe were the words of Jesus. Now my dad smacked me and said to apologize to her. I did, but I didn't mean it. So I'm going to hell?
Heres a better example. What if I'm a rich guy, and I give up my money for cancer research but I don't really mean it, I just do it to get in to heaven. Even if I WANTED to mean it, I couldn't really mean it. So I'm going to hell....Again...?
Lol.
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You wouldn't go to hell for either of those. And how is giving away money and not meaning it, the same as apologizing and not meaning? It's not the same.
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Uhm. I wouldn't go to hell? Didn't you just say I'd go to hell for doing either of those lol??? And also, its the same for this reason. I'm giving money away to make myself feel good and be a ''good'' person, so I'll get into heaven. But by your logic, if I'm saying or doing something just to get into heaven, I get boned. Cool
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I can't tell someone there going to hell. Nobody knows what's the limit. There's not a list, so you just got to live life the best you can. But, God does however, forgive anybody for anything. How is that a mean god?
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i've said this to another bible thumper before but, have you talked to god lately?
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Yes. Have you?
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I believe he meant, have you had a conversation with god? As in, you saying Howdy partner! and him saying Sup bro, instead of you just being, essentially, the ugly chick from the saturday party leaving the message on the recorder and him never getting back to you 
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316746 is a reply to message #316735] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 13:56 |
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IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:57 |
| renalpha wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:11 |
| Rocko wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 21:37 |
I've always wondered how can so many christians place so much faith in a mystical man that lived 2000 years ago? What if jesus was just the greatest magician ever? I wouldn't think it to be too hard to trick and confuse people back then. People mistaked ordinary things for godly occurences all the time.
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since im a christian but i call myself a non believer.
i think jezus died because he just fucking deserved it thats why,
listen i piss on religion. too many people question themselfs why?...
i tell them to stfu, this only causes war.
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...He deserved it?
You're fucked up, man, if you're a Christian aka CHRIST FOLLOWER, and you think that Jesus deserved to be cruelly tortured and killed.
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I don't agree with what alpha said, but Jesus did let it happen, when he had the chance to get away, so in a sense, he did deserve it, as he had the chance to escape but didn't.
Like standing in the road while a bus is coming and not getting out the way. 
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316749 is a reply to message #316746] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 14:05 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 3
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General (2 Stars) |
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| IronWarrior wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 12:56 |
| Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:57 |
| renalpha wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:11 |
| Rocko wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 21:37 |
I've always wondered how can so many christians place so much faith in a mystical man that lived 2000 years ago? What if jesus was just the greatest magician ever? I wouldn't think it to be too hard to trick and confuse people back then. People mistaked ordinary things for godly occurences all the time.
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since im a christian but i call myself a non believer.
i think jezus died because he just fucking deserved it thats why,
listen i piss on religion. too many people question themselfs why?...
i tell them to stfu, this only causes war.
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...He deserved it?
You're fucked up, man, if you're a Christian aka CHRIST FOLLOWER, and you think that Jesus deserved to be cruelly tortured and killed.
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I don't agree with what alpha said, but Jesus did let it happen, when he had the chance to get away, so in a sense, he did deserve it, as he had the chance to escape but didn't.
Like standing in the road while a bus is coming and not getting out the way.
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Because if the bus did not hit him and kill him, then a lot of people will go to hell. 
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316750 is a reply to message #316749] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 14:08 |
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BlueThen
Messages: 2402
Registered: February 2006
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 15:05 |
| IronWarrior wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 12:56 |
| Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:57 |
| renalpha wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 13:11 |
| Rocko wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 21:37 |
I've always wondered how can so many christians place so much faith in a mystical man that lived 2000 years ago? What if jesus was just the greatest magician ever? I wouldn't think it to be too hard to trick and confuse people back then. People mistaked ordinary things for godly occurences all the time.
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since im a christian but i call myself a non believer.
i think jezus died because he just fucking deserved it thats why,
listen i piss on religion. too many people question themselfs why?...
i tell them to stfu, this only causes war.
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...He deserved it?
You're fucked up, man, if you're a Christian aka CHRIST FOLLOWER, and you think that Jesus deserved to be cruelly tortured and killed.
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I don't agree with what alpha said, but Jesus did let it happen, when he had the chance to get away, so in a sense, he did deserve it, as he had the chance to escape but didn't.
Like standing in the road while a bus is coming and not getting out the way.
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Because if the bus did not hit him and kill him, then a lot of people will go to hell.
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You get more and more arrogant with every religious bashing comment you make.
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316751 is a reply to message #316750] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 14:14 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2500
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 3
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Originally Blue wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 15:08 |
You get more and more arrogant with every religious bashing comment you make.
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I am right am I not?
When I was not bashing and speaking logic, I was FALSY ACCUSED of bashing. Now when I simply followed up with Iron's analogy, I am arrogant?
[Updated on: Tue, 12 February 2008 14:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316777 is a reply to message #316770] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 16:44 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399
Registered: December 2007
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Commander |
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| Muad Dib15 wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 17:26 |
Wright, if all you can do now is laugh at religious people give up this thread to people that actually know what they are talking about. Like Starbuzz, he doesn't blatently bash people and then say, "I loled at your reply."
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Ah so instead of continuing to attack my argument, after being thoroughly beaten, you finally just gave up and decided to result to accusing me of bashing your pagan religion.
Muad is preeeeetty cool
And yes, I am bashing your religion, because I find that its very foundations and principals incredibly stupid and contrite.
[Updated on: Tue, 12 February 2008 16:46] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316779 is a reply to message #316769] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 16:50 |
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IronWarrior
Messages: 2460
Registered: November 2004
Location: England UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| MWright967 wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 17:18 |
| IronWarrior wrote on Tue, 12 February 2008 16:34 |
In a manner of speaking, Jesus committed suicide, which is a sin.
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Suicide is the act of forcibly killing oneself. While he did not attempt to stop anyone, he didn't inflict pain on himself. Therefore it isn't suicide.
Made me alugh though 
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As Jesus know what was gonna happen to himself and didn't stop it, you can argue that it was a act of suicide.
Have you ever heard of the term, suicide by cop?
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Suicide-by-cop is a suicide method in which someone deliberately acts in a threatening way towards a law enforcement officer, with the goal of provoking a lethal response, such as being shot to death. Similar phrases include death by cop, suicide-by-police, and officer- (or police-) assisted suicide
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop
So, as he know what was going to happen and infact welcomed it, this you could say, is the same thing.
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| Re: question to christians about jesus [message #316781 is a reply to message #314167] |
Tue, 12 February 2008 17:05 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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Sorry, but that is faulty logic.
Suicide by cop is NOT simply knowing the police will kill you, and allowing it to happen. This is where you deliberately take actions in which you know the police will respond by killing you.
The suicide part comes in because of the ACTION you take, not in "waiting around to let it happen", because there is no waiting, there is a forced response by the individual to the police.
With what Jesus did (and anyone else who simply waits around and wait for the inevitable to happen) is not suicide, but rather allowing himself to be sacrificed for a greater cause (whether people believe in the cause or not, this is what it was done for).
Socrates did the same thing. He preached against the state, the state captured him and sentenced him to death. He accepted that sentence without attempting to escape (and according to Plato, he was given the chance to escape but chose to stay behind and face his captors).
I don't know ANYONE who said that Socrates committed suicide by doing that.
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