Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Election '08
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Re: Election '08 [message #310235 is a reply to message #310230] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 13:52 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399 Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Dover wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 20:48 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 10:19 |
Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:50 |
Jecht wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:12 | To you externals - Your governments have done atrocities that are JUST as bad, or worse in your past histories as we have in our past history. That includes ALL of you. Get over yourselves.
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That's a good idea. Let's generalize all governments together because all of them have commited evil.
You are wrong about my country's government.
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Name one that hasn't
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All of Scandonavia?
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Bad example, considering the fact that all of those nomadic Nordic peoples were some of the bloodiest and most powerful warriors ever to be alive. They had good reasons though, considering they were in a constant struggle with people like the Romans for dominace and survival.
AKA: Berserkers.
And yes, they did commit Atrocities. For example, there was once a magical place called Britania, and then, the Saxons showed up . . . . .
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Re: Election '08 [message #310245 is a reply to message #310227] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 13:59 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547 Registered: March 2006 Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 12:44 |
Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 14:23 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 12:19 |
Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:50 |
Jecht wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:12 | To you externals - Your governments have done atrocities that are JUST as bad, or worse in your past histories as we have in our past history. That includes ALL of you. Get over yourselves.
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That's a good idea. Let's generalize all governments together because all of them have commited evil.
You are wrong about my country's government.
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Name one that hasn't
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Switzerland.
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*Cough* Swedish Vikings *Cough*
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Uh...
Sweeden != Switzerland. There were Sweedish Vikings, but there has never been such a thing as a Swiss Viking.
But you knew that, right?
DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 | Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310257 is a reply to message #310245] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 14:28 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399 Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Dover wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 14:59 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 12:44 |
Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 14:23 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 12:19 |
Starbuzz wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:50 |
Jecht wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 09:12 | To you externals - Your governments have done atrocities that are JUST as bad, or worse in your past histories as we have in our past history. That includes ALL of you. Get over yourselves.
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That's a good idea. Let's generalize all governments together because all of them have commited evil.
You are wrong about my country's government.
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Name one that hasn't
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Switzerland.
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*Cough* Swedish Vikings *Cough*
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Uh...
Sweeden != Switzerland. There were Sweedish Vikings, but there has never been such a thing as a Swiss Viking.
But you knew that, right?
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I say Swedish since they both come from the same area originally. While there were no official ''Swiss'' vikings, they are essentially one in the same, coming from the same area originally. Sorry if I jumbled that together
Point being, all these tribes raided and plundered and even murdered. Its not suprising.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310288 is a reply to message #310260] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 16:04 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399 Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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Dover wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 15:37 | Firstly, like Starbuzz pointed out, we're talking modern governments. Lets try to confine ourselves to events of the past 5 centuries? Fair enough?
Secondly:
NOWHERE NEAR EACH OTHER. I thought that as a well-traveled man you'd take a gander at a map once in a while.
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I also would have thought someone like you, possessing moderately high intelligence would have known a little more about history.
I didn't say they lived right next to each other. I said they CAME FROM THE SAME PLACE. Just so you know, Germans, Nords, Swedes, Pollocks, Brits, and pretty much everyone in those upwardly cold and windy areas of the world all come from the same thing. They're all Anglo-Saxon tribes. For example, the English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh were originally Germans that migrated over. Then the Gauls, another Tutonic tribe came over, and then the Saxons, yet another Tutonic tribe came over. There were quite a few invasions of England and the surrounding areas, actually. Point being, blood wise, they're exactly the same. Lets not forget, the Swiss were the founders of modern day Russia.
Using your logic, people can't be the same thing if they live far apart. So I suppose all of the Roman soldiers stationed for 400 years in England meant they weren't Roman anymore, right?
The last thing you want to do is get into a debate with me over Tutonic history. I took about 5 different courses on this in College.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310330 is a reply to message #310326] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 17:16 |
cnc95fan
Messages: 1261 Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310336 is a reply to message #310330] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 17:21 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399 Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
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You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310337 is a reply to message #310288] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 17:24 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547 Registered: March 2006 Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 15:04 |
Dover wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 15:37 | Firstly, like Starbuzz pointed out, we're talking modern governments. Lets try to confine ourselves to events of the past 5 centuries? Fair enough?
Secondly:
NOWHERE NEAR EACH OTHER. I thought that as a well-traveled man you'd take a gander at a map once in a while.
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I also would have thought someone like you, possessing moderately high intelligence would have known a little more about history.
I didn't say they lived right next to each other. I said they CAME FROM THE SAME PLACE. Just so you know, Germans, Nords, Swedes, Pollocks, Brits, and pretty much everyone in those upwardly cold and windy areas of the world all come from the same thing. They're all Anglo-Saxon tribes. For example, the English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh were originally Germans that migrated over. Then the Gauls, another Tutonic tribe came over, and then the Saxons, yet another Tutonic tribe came over. There were quite a few invasions of England and the surrounding areas, actually. Point being, blood wise, they're exactly the same. Lets not forget, the Swiss were the founders of modern day Russia.
Using your logic, people can't be the same thing if they live far apart. So I suppose all of the Roman soldiers stationed for 400 years in England meant they weren't Roman anymore, right?
The last thing you want to do is get into a debate with me over Tutonic history. I took about 5 different courses on this in College.
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Ugh. If you're going to bail yourself out that way, pretty much everything we're looking at on the map (And large parts of the Middle East and India) can trace their liniage back to Aryan nomads from modern day Mongolia/Southern Russia. Common liniage means shit here, since we're all human and we all "came from the same place".
And again, for the fourth time this thread. MODERN GOVERNMENTS. I'm even willing to extend this past to 500 years ago (Which isn't modern anyway)
DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 | Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310376 is a reply to message #310336] |
Sat, 12 January 2008 18:59 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812 Registered: May 2007 Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:21 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
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You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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1.1,321,851,888
2. Have you seen the Anti-Satellite missiles they developed?
3. Not when you have a communist country and 281 million available conscripts. And, a simple nuke will wipe out millions.
4. And? They are on cold terms with us, Canada because Dalai Lama visited here. They don't like the US either, because of them supplying weapons to Taiwan.
Quote: | [19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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Quote: | [22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310443 is a reply to message #308124] |
Sun, 13 January 2008 02:38 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545 Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I find it absolutely hilarious that people here thought I was serious about Switzerland.
Renegade:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 | The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310469 is a reply to message #310376] |
Sun, 13 January 2008 03:44 |
cnc95fan
Messages: 1261 Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 02:59 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:21 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
|
You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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1.1,321,851,888
2. Have you seen the Anti-Satellite missiles they developed?
3. Not when you have a communist country and 281 million available conscripts. And, a simple nuke will wipe out millions.
4. And? They are on cold terms with us, Canada because Dalai Lama visited here. They don't like the US either, because of them supplying weapons to Taiwan.
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Yawn. Do you think they would conscript 281million Men, Women and children? Where do you think they buy their weapons from
They are not communist any more.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310470 is a reply to message #310469] |
Sun, 13 January 2008 03:45 |
cnc95fan
Messages: 1261 Registered: July 2007
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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cnc95fan wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 04:44 |
sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 02:59 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:21 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
|
You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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1.1,321,851,888
2. Have you seen the Anti-Satellite missiles they developed?
3. Not when you have a communist country and 281 million available conscripts. And, a simple nuke will wipe out millions.
4. And? They are on cold terms with us, Canada because Dalai Lama visited here. They don't like the US either, because of them supplying weapons to Taiwan.
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Yawn. Do you think they would conscript 1.3billion Men, Women and children? Where do you think they buy their weapons from
They are not communist any more.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310493 is a reply to message #310469] |
Sun, 13 January 2008 05:54 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812 Registered: May 2007 Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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cnc95fan wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 04:44 |
sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 02:59 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:21 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
|
You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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1.1,321,851,888
2. Have you seen the Anti-Satellite missiles they developed?
3. Not when you have a communist country and 281 million available conscripts. And, a simple nuke will wipe out millions.
4. And? They are on cold terms with us, Canada because Dalai Lama visited here. They don't like the US either, because of them supplying weapons to Taiwan.
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Yawn. Do you think they would conscript 281million Men, Women and children? Where do you think they buy their weapons from
They are not communist any more.
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Nice double post, quoting yourself, dumbass. And if you are in a war, yes. And since when does it all have to be Women and children? It could've been all men and women, you are sooooo fucking smart.
Quote: | [19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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Quote: | [22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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Re: Election '08 [message #310496 is a reply to message #310493] |
Sun, 13 January 2008 06:27 |
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Chimp
Messages: 399 Registered: December 2007
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 06:54 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 04:44 |
sadukar09 wrote on Sun, 13 January 2008 02:59 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:21 |
cnc95fan wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:16 |
MWright967 wrote on Sat, 12 January 2008 18:08 | Switzerland doesn't even have the technology, nor the funds or support to launch any kind of large-scale attack. I'd imagine that if theres anyone to take the place of America as #1 world power, it will either be Russia or China.
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Sigh, I don't understand why everyone thinks China is so powerful military-wise. The vast VAST majority of Chinese are peasants, there is little money per capita as it is spread out over 1.3 billion people. "China" has never trully been powerful. Most people mistake it for the Mongolian Empire. The only time "China" was powerful, was when it was a small, much easier state to manage, thousands of years ago. The amount of money pumped into a army matters very little, no offence, but the US military seems to phail against untrained militia.. The Chinese forces have over 2 Million members, but that means nothing. Take the Battle of El Alamein for example, the Germans outnumbered the British 1:3, and yet, they still won over the odds. It's all about who's the most dedicated, and the one with the most brains.
|
You assume its because they have tons of riches, or perhaps some kind of ''advanced'' technology. No. Its far simpler than that.
1. China has billions of people (2 billion if I'm not mistaken?) That means, they will never have funding problems.
2. China is technologically inferior in most ways to all of the other world super-powers. However, they have a huge amount of people, which means more people to choose from for the scientific field.
3. Having so many people simply means its not only harder to destroy them, its harder to keep control of them.
4. They are on VERY good trading terms with countries like America and England, which not only further supply them with money, but give them a chance to get some allies together if they ever go to war with someone.
You'de be correct in saying that china is not a super-power, and probably won't be for a long time. However, they are sort of the ''Neutral'' people right now. They trade with almost everyone, have huge funds, have huge amounts of people, and their government is comprised of some fairly tricky people. Who knows, they may never return to the days of yore where Mongolia ruled with an iron fist. Lets hope not. But I could definitely see it playing out in the end.
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1.1,321,851,888
2. Have you seen the Anti-Satellite missiles they developed?
3. Not when you have a communist country and 281 million available conscripts. And, a simple nuke will wipe out millions.
4. And? They are on cold terms with us, Canada because Dalai Lama visited here. They don't like the US either, because of them supplying weapons to Taiwan.
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Yawn. Do you think they would conscript 281million Men, Women and children? Where do you think they buy their weapons from
They are not communist any more.
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Nice double post, quoting yourself, dumbass. And if you are in a war, yes. And since when does it all have to be Women and children? It could've been all men and women, you are sooooo fucking smart.
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Sorry, I've got to side with Sadukar on this one
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