Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users
Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 10:08 |
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The Elite Officer
Messages: 602 Registered: September 2007 Location: Chapel Hill, North Caroli...
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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What is your Opinion?[ 32 votes ] |
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Yes they should pass out free needles. |
16 / 50% |
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No, this is more trouble then it is worth they should stop doing this. |
12 / 38% |
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Netural |
4 / 13% |
I bring your attention to this.....
Quote: | Anti-drug campaigns are being run all over the world, but the message is not getting through.
The abuse of intravenous drugs is spreading from the US, western Europe and Australia to just about every other region of the world.
Countries now report that the number of injecting drug addicts and the spread of Aids through sharing needles is reaching epidemic proportions in Asia and parts of Eastern Europe.
At a conference in Geneva last month scientists, politicians and drug users met to discuss the project.
The idea behind 'harm reduction' is to prevent drug addicts from harming themselves and society. It is about prescribing drugs to addicts so they do not have to buy from drug dealers, as well as providing clean needles for addicts to prevent the spread of HIV.
Quality of life
Conference president Dominic Oiser says society has a moral duty to support the policy.
"My moral question or my ethical point of view is that as public health people, as medical doctors, as social workers, we have to find ways to maintain and improve quality of health, quality of life, of individuals and of the society where we are living in and that there is no reason to not choose a method that is effective," he said.
Studies show that harm reduction does save lives, as well as improving addicts' quality of life.
But critics say that governments should be encouraging them to kick their habit completely, instead of supplying clean needles and methadone.
The Director of the International Harm Reduction Association, Pat O'Hare, disagrees.
"Giving methadone to drug users - what it does is it stabilises their life," he said.
"The evidence is very clear about methadone, it stops people injecting, although some people do inject methadone. It stops them using street heroin, it reduces the amount of sharing of needles and it reduces the amount of crime that those people commit. Now, that sounds to me like a pretty good deal."
Needle exchange
The HIV epidemic has added weight to arguments in support of harm reduction. Provision of clean needles for drug-injecting addicts is seen as vital to curb the spread of the disease.
Brazilian politician Paolo Tishera says for poor, developing world countries it is the most cost-effective way of preventing Aids.
"It's easy for us to make programme like that, because it's too expensive to treat people living with Aids," he said.
"And when you have a needle exchange programme, the number of people living with Aids also decreases. So treating people once they have Aids is more expensive than making a prevention programme like needle exchange programmes available to addicts."
But the costs of needle exchange programmes are still too high for many developing countries.
Remains controversial
Non-governmental organisations are having to step in to fund schemes in central and eastern Europe, where HIV rates have soared, mainly because of unsafe drug injecting.
Glen Baksis, Director of the Open Society's harm reduction programme, said: "We're working in central and eastern Europe and in particularly the former Soviet Union - Russia, Moldova, Belarus and Ukraine - because they are the new centre of HIV in the northern hemisphere.
"The number of cases that happened in Russia and Ukraine alone last year surpassed all of north American infections and all of European infections last year."
Ten years after the "harm reduction" approach was first tried, it still remains controversial.
Offering clean needles to addicts is becoming more acceptable - but supplying them with substitute drugs is still too radical for many to accept.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/338633.stm
What is your opinion? Do you think this is right? That they pass out free needles to help lower AIDS and HIV by people sharing needles.
But at the same time this is also consirdered wrong because it seems to incourage the use for drugs and drug addiction.
They can get a liquid form of herion in Russia and the surronding parts for a very cheap prive and then use it to enject it into the users blood strem.
The reason Uranus is tilted 90 degrees is because god got angry and kicked it over.....
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301628 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 10:11 |
qwertwert125
Messages: 73 Registered: August 2007
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it should be done so that strange viruses dont start comming up, this way they wont bring theyre germs over here and wipe out half the population, causeing us to nuke them acusing them of useing bio weapons. this will start a nuclear war of epic porportions. everything will die.
this is why they should do it.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301645 is a reply to message #301641] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 12:14 |
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The Elite Officer
Messages: 602 Registered: September 2007 Location: Chapel Hill, North Caroli...
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Not that easy. In places like the Ukraine it is so poor and rural in these areas that they can't affoward to stick druggies into cells. They have no money for medicines for AIDS patient's. So they die and there hospitals are not that even big, like a max of 25 people.
The reason Uranus is tilted 90 degrees is because god got angry and kicked it over.....
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 12:17] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301651 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 12:35 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468 Registered: June 2003 Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
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General (3 Stars) |
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Hard to argue either way.
1 Syringe $0.40
1 Hospital $5,000,000 (With build cost and standard equipment) Each
Really they should just take everyone in the back that shows up and start giving out euthanasia treatments.
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 12:36] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301661 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 13:20 |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812 Registered: May 2007 Location: Ottawa,Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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Free needles means they won't need to share, means less HIV infection rate, and other diseases. (Hepatitis, for example)
EDIT: In Ottawa, we had a free needles program for drug addicts, but the city took it down. It reduced infection rate pretty well, until it went without funding.
Quote: | [19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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Quote: | [22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 13:21] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301673 is a reply to message #301649] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 14:01 |
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IronWarrior
Messages: 2460 Registered: November 2004 Location: England UK
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General (2 Stars) |
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cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 13:26 |
IronWarrior wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 14:09 | Just stick the fucking druggie in a cell for 6 weeks, he can climb the walls in there till he gets over it.
So fucking simple.
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So governments should be spending tax payer money on jailing people for putting substances into THEIR bodies? Nope, that doesn't cost a shitload of money. GOOD IDEA.
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In fact, is it a really good idea in the long run, open your mind.
The entire cost of a druggie impact on society is more then it would to keep them in a cell for a few weeks till they get over it.
Most people who take drugs, do crime, though-out that crime, people can get hurt, so there is medical costs, the cost of fixing whatever they just done, like breaking in a car or something, the cost of the police dealing with them, the time for the police to deal with them, then, the court costs, honesty, the list goes on and on.
All you need to do is stick them in a room for 6 weeks, not let the fuckers out expect for walks in a closed space and showers.
You can feed people for a day on less then 1 pound, depending how cheap you wanna go, yes, there is the cost of guards and the costs of running a building, but that is small to the cost they do on the outside.
That's if you wanted a building to house them, myself, I would use a unused ex army base, build a few wooden buildings with small rooms, could even use tents, shit, the little details like that, could be thought off later.
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 14:03] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301674 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 14:09 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468 Registered: June 2003 Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
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General (3 Stars) |
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6 weeks in a cell wont fix anything. The second they go home and get back in to their environment they will just pick up where they left off.
Druggies do drugs because they want to, addiction is just an excuse to justify the terrible things they do.
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301676 is a reply to message #301674] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 14:12 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488 Registered: February 2004
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General (1 Star) Not everything is as it appears Untouchable |
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Oblivion165 wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 16:09 | 6 weeks in a cell wont fix anything. The second they go home and get back in to their environment they will just pick up where they left off.
Druggies do drugs because they want to, addiction is just an excuse to justify the terrible things they do.
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That is probably the most uneducated thing I have ever heard you say.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301677 is a reply to message #301676] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 14:18 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507 Registered: March 2003 Location: Jackson, Michigan
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General (5 Stars) |
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luv2pb wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 16:12 |
Oblivion165 wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 16:09 | 6 weeks in a cell wont fix anything. The second they go home and get back in to their environment they will just pick up where they left off.
Druggies do drugs because they want to, addiction is just an excuse to justify the terrible things they do.
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That is probably the most uneducated thing I have ever heard you say.
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I, actually, agree with him. I doubt most of the "addicts" are truly addicted. It's just a cop-out, so they can skimp on personal responsibility and keep doing what they desire.
Either way, you get rid of welfare, let people put whatever they want into their bodies, and then watch as nothing gets worse!
whoa.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301684 is a reply to message #301674] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 15:01 |
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IronWarrior
Messages: 2460 Registered: November 2004 Location: England UK
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General (2 Stars) |
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Oblivion165 wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 15:09 | 6 weeks in a cell wont fix anything. The second they go home and get back in to their environment they will just pick up where they left off.
Druggies do drugs because they want to, addiction is just an excuse to justify the terrible things they do.
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I did think about that after I posted, but that is the real issue, soon we fix that, better everyone is off.
For a quick fix, could always dump them in the Army.
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 15:02] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301721 is a reply to message #301673] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 18:39 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751 Registered: October 2005 Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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IronWarrior wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 22:01 |
cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 13:26 |
IronWarrior wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 14:09 | Just stick the fucking druggie in a cell for 6 weeks, he can climb the walls in there till he gets over it.
So fucking simple.
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So governments should be spending tax payer money on jailing people for putting substances into THEIR bodies? Nope, that doesn't cost a shitload of money. GOOD IDEA.
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In fact, is it a really good idea in the long run, open your mind.
The entire cost of a druggie impact on society is more then it would to keep them in a cell for a few weeks till they get over it.
Most people who take drugs, do crime, though-out that crime, people can get hurt, so there is medical costs, the cost of fixing whatever they just done, like breaking in a car or something, the cost of the police dealing with them, the time for the police to deal with them, then, the court costs, honesty, the list goes on and on.
All you need to do is stick them in a room for 6 weeks, not let the fuckers out expect for walks in a closed space and showers.
You can feed people for a day on less then 1 pound, depending how cheap you wanna go, yes, there is the cost of guards and the costs of running a building, but that is small to the cost they do on the outside.
That's if you wanted a building to house them, myself, I would use a unused ex army base, build a few wooden buildings with small rooms, could even use tents, shit, the little details like that, could be thought off later.
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To bad that having a drug addict convicted (in a country with trias politica) is time consuming and costly.
Besides that I know for a fact that having someone locked up in a cell in the Netherlands costs about 300 euros a day (which will probably be not much different from most western europe countries), excluding any help to get rid of the addiction...
Besides that, you would need to make extra cells avaible, which would mean building more prisons, or releasing more serious criminals.
And, locking them up doesn't some the (potential) AIDS problem, which seems to me like the primary concern in this case.
As of course, none wants drug addicts.
Then again, something worse then a drug addict is a drug addict with AIDS.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
V, V for Vendetta | People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301726 is a reply to message #301721] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 19:25 |
bat66wat6
Messages: 331 Registered: September 2007
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I voted "Yes, they should hand out free needles!" as it might encourage drug use yes. I don't like this and believe in all manors that Illegal drug use is wrong! But think about those who really do need the needles. You can'y just leave them out to dry because there's a chance that some drugy will come along and use it to carry on fueling his addiction.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301729 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 19:36 |
z310
Messages: 2459 Registered: July 2003
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General (2 Stars) |
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They shouldn't pass out needles for free. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for that shit.
I bet outside of programs like this, needles are hard to get. They shouldn't be hard to get. Let them take the damn drugs. It doesn't DIRECTLY infringe on others' rights. Others' rights are infringed on when the drug user or addict DECIDES to do that for their next dose.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301734 is a reply to message #301661] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 21:08 |
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sadukar09 wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 15:20 | Free needles means they won't need to share, means less HIV infection rate, and other diseases. (Hepatitis, for example)
EDIT: In Ottawa, we had a free needles program for drug addicts, but the city took it down. It reduced infection rate pretty well, until it went without funding.
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Wait a second, you live here?
Shit.
z310 wrote on Fri, 07 December 2007 21:36 | They shouldn't pass out needles for free. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for that shit.
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Logic behind this: stopping the spread of blood/sexually transmitted diseases to cut expenses related to said diseases, be it lawsuits or treatments. And it's more likely that they'll start asking for help if they're getting their needles from the government (also chances of some sort of follow-up) than from other junkies, which helps reducing the number of junkies.
"omg taxpayers money" - if you turn the junkie into a regular citizen it's like an investment anyway, as that money is likely to come back - keeping in mind that governments are non-profit (supposed to be) organizations that provide services that its population wants. And you're also implying that everyone who does drug doesn't pay taxes.
Beyond preventing the spread of diseases I don't know why I'd have to add anything, but I have anyway.
FUCK
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 21:18] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301736 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 21:50 |
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Viking
Messages: 1692 Registered: July 2005 Location: Earth
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General (1 Star) |
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I remember reading they did this in the USA somewhere and the stopped because the druggies were just selling them to other druggies.
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Crimson wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 05:22 |
Memphis wrote on Tue, 15 May 2007 03:54 | ...fatally die to death...
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I don't know if you meant to do that, but triple redundancy for teh win. I LOL'ed.
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301747 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 23:12 |
bisen11
Messages: 797 Registered: December 2004
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Kind of a side issue here but, this will also bring more money into their government since they'll be the ones giving the drugs (it did mean the government was selling them to people now, right?) That would bring money away from the dangerous drug cartels and such but do you think it could also corrupt the government some now that they're getting this money? (shrugs)
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Re: Free Needles in Ukraine to Drug Users [message #301748 is a reply to message #301626] |
Fri, 07 December 2007 23:24 |
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Gen_Blacky
Messages: 3250 Registered: September 2006
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General (3 Stars) |
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i say yes because it may stop some disease that get passed by sharing needles, but it just encourages people to go slam it up ...............
Most use needles for heroin because the greater high u get from it. there are other ways to take the drug like crushing it up and snorting it.
[Updated on: Fri, 07 December 2007 23:28] Report message to a moderator
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