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What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 09:25 Go to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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I'll take my anger out on the right-wingers first. I, generally, have a bias towards conservatives because much like libertarianism, conservatism views liberty to be more important than the flawed viewpoint of equality of results. However, there are still plenty of flaws that I have an issue with, and I intend to rip them a new one.

First of all, the Christian-right has to go. I have nothing against Christianity, being a Christian myself, but it has no place in politics. This whole ideology of regulating morality is absurd. I understand the concept of wanting to create a better world for everybody. I desire that for people, too, but regulating morality isn't the way to do it. I mean, nobody shares the same morals, so how could you possibly be right on what morals are for the "common good"? Simply put, you can't. It's just NOT possible. Just let me live my life the way I want to live, and I'll let you live the way you want to live. As long as we don't impede on each other's rights, there should be NO reason why we should be regulated.

For instance, the issue of Gay Marriage seems to be a hot button issue for a lot of America, especially the right-wing. I, like many Christians, disagree with homosexuality. I still feel that it's a lifestyle choice, but that's a different argument for a different day. While I may disagree with their lifestyle does not mean that I should be able to decide that they can't live their lives the way they see fit. I know most wouldn't agree with the way I live my life in its entirety, and I know most won't agree with the way you life YOUR life in its entirety. Who's right or wrong? Again, as long as I don't impede on your rights as defined in the Bill of Rights, you have no place to tell me how to live my life as I don't have the right to tell you how to live yours.

Another example of this morality crusade is the War on Drugs. While I understand the dangers of drugs, and I do not do drugs, I see no reason why others should be kept from doing what they want with their bodies. What people do in their homes and to themselves is none of our business. We don't have to like it, and we don't have to do it ourselves. We should just let it be and live OUR lives the way we want it, instead of deciding on how someone else should be living theirs. What if vegetarians were the majority and decided that eating animal meat should be illegal and they pass a law against eating meat? What would right-wingers think of that then? I know they wouldn't like it. After all, it's their bodies that they're putting the meat into. It's their bodies that are digesting the meat. Why would the right-wingers be putting up such a stink about this (and would rightfully be doing so)? Because it's not the vegan's right to tell the right-wingers how to live their lives and to regulate what is fine for human consumption. It's time right-wingers get off of their morality trip.

Another one of my dislikes about the right is the new neo-con ideology that we need preemptive war to stop our would-be attackers. Do you know how silly that is? Should I shoot someone on the street because they don't like me, and there's a "chance" that they could do bodily harm to me? Just because someone wants to do me harm doesn't mean that they will. Threats are not to be taken lightly, but deciding on a whim that these people are too much of a threat to be taken lightly and attack them makes us just as bad as them. Their ideology says that they're trying to protect their way of life, so they're fighting their oppressors. Isn't that what we want to do, as well? Don't get me wrong, I think their idea of us oppressing them is absurd, but it's their viewpoint, and if we attack them first, we just prove their thoughts to be correct, and THEY have no respect for themselves, so they're going to go all out and take as many of us as they want. Even if we start a war with them, they're going to harm us. The only thing we're doing is giving them even more of a reason to do it.

Yet another big issue I have with the right-wing goes along with what I was talking about before: preemptive strikes against would-be criminals. Again, sure it sounds like a good idea. Who wouldn't want to stop bad things from happening before they did? However, infringing on the rights of people is not the way to go about doing this. How dare my government spy on me and my family? The whole idea that it's protecting me is a farce. No, it's not protecting me. It's treating me like I'm a criminal. I don't want to be video-taped. I don't want my conversations listened upon. I don't want to be under the suspect of trying to commit an act of treason because I speak ill of my overbearing and unruly government.

The whole argument that if I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't have anything to worry about is just ridiculous. Yeah, if I am not doing anything wrong, the government will pass me over, and I'll be able to continue to live my life accordingly. However, that's not the problem. The problem is that my privacy was being invaded. I am not sure about everybody else, but I don't want my phone conversations or IM conversations listened to and read even if it's nothing more than a casual conversation about sports. It's the principle that the Bill of Rights is being ignored. I was given those rights by our fore fathers for a reason. I was to be able to speak ill of whatever I see fit whether or not the government or someone else likes what I'm saying. Why is the government now scrutinizing what I'm saying and possibly my words against me? That's not what our fore fathers intended. It was my actions that I am supposed to receive due process of law for, not my words or intentions. Just because I may intend to pay my bills this month doesn't mean that I am. Therefore, not only is my government capable of spying on me, but they're capable of arresting me for my words that are protected under my Bill of Rights. Something's wrong there, and the right-wing is ignoring it.

Just like the left wing, the right wing desires to increase the size of our government. As if our government isn't big enough, they want our government to now be a bigger police state to protect us. It's fine to want to be protected. We do have to give up some liberties in order for our government to protect us, but our privacy is not one of them.

Regardless, if our government knows everything about us, we may be "safe" from outside threats, but what about us being safe from our government? If our privacy is invaded and we put our lives in the hand of our government, we put our lives in the hands of inept and corrupt politicians who are only looking out for themselves, and certainly not for us. Not only do we then lose our privacy, but then the rest of our freedoms seem to fade. What's to stop our government if we, The People, no longer have the element of surprise? If the right wing doesn't want their freedoms, then they're free (how ironic) to give them away to whoever or whichever government they want to. I just don't want them making the decision for me to give up mine. I like mine, and I'm not about to lose them.

Overall, I think the right wing wants what's best for our nation. They want people to live a free life and one without worry, but they're misguided on how to achieve this. They want to give up essential liberties just so they may feel a little extra safe at night. That's fine if they want that, but I don't, and it's not their right to make that decision for me or anybody else. Our founding fathers gave us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They said this for a reason, and thanks to the right-wingers, they are probably turning in their graves.


whoa.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 September 2007 09:26]

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Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284108 is a reply to message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Herr Surth is currently offline  Herr Surth
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Quote:

I have nothing against Christianity, being a Christian myself, but it has no place in politics.
Finally a point where I can agree with you :>
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284170 is a reply to message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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No matter how much you want morals to stay out of politics, they will always be there. What drove many of our current laws? They were based upon the rules that the founding fathers deemed morally fair. Our country is based on their morals.

What is right and what is wrong? Morals dictate that.
What is right and what is wrong? Laws dictate that.

Separation of morality from law will never happen because laws are based on morals.


http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9146/hartyn4.png

[Updated on: Thu, 13 September 2007 13:49]

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Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284176 is a reply to message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Canadacdn is currently offline  Canadacdn
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PLECOS MASTER
Politics. Serious business.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284181 is a reply to message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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Uhh... duh? It runs our world, so why would it be something to take lightly?

whoa.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284258 is a reply to message #284103] Thu, 13 September 2007 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nikki6ixx is currently offline  nikki6ixx
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Firstly... there are conservatives (note the uncapitalized 'c') and then there are Republican's. Huh

A lot of things you mention are also characteristics of leftist governments too.

I agree wholeheartedly with your complaints... and I'm a conservative. If you read up on Adam Smith, and neo-liberalism, you'll generally see what a real conservative stands for.


Renegade:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56

The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284352 is a reply to message #284103] Fri, 14 September 2007 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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I'm talking about the American right. I thought that me being an American would make that clear, but I guess not.

As far as Adam Smith is concerned, he pretty much paved the way for libertarianism.


whoa.

[Updated on: Fri, 14 September 2007 11:35]

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Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284369 is a reply to message #284352] Fri, 14 September 2007 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nikki6ixx is currently offline  nikki6ixx
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cheesesoda wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 13:34

I'm talking about the American right. I thought that me being an American would make that clear, but I guess not.


Fair enough, but except for some small details, I don't see any real difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Just that the Republican's rake up the major deficits and debt. Reagan can be forgiven for that though, mostly because Reagan owns.


Renegade:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56

The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284378 is a reply to message #284103] Fri, 14 September 2007 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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There's a huge difference between Republicans and Democrats.

Democrats want equality of results. They want everybody to have an "equal" shot at getting a job, even if they don't deserve it. An "equal" shot at earning the same income as most, even if they don't deserve it. Democrats are leaning towards Socialism, and that's just complete lunacy, as far as I'm concerned. I don't like them spending MY money on anything but me. As selfish as that sounds, it's my fucking money.


whoa.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284383 is a reply to message #284103] Fri, 14 September 2007 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryan3k is currently offline  Ryan3k
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Quote:

While I understand the dangers of drugs, and I do not do drugs, I see no reason why others should be kept from doing what they want with their bodies. What people do in their homes and to themselves is none of our business. We don't have to like it, and we don't have to do it ourselves. We should just let it be and live OUR lives the way we want it, instead of deciding on how someone else should be living theirs. What if vegetarians were the majority and decided that eating animal meat should be illegal and they pass a law against eating meat?


This is not a good example. You should have thought it out more carefully.

Anti-drug laws exist because of the general idea that drugs injure the common good (simply put). This is due to their ability to addict, harm, and kill people who would otherwise be of contribution to society at large.

Eating meat is not injurious to the common good.


[Updated on: Fri, 14 September 2007 13:58]

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Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284393 is a reply to message #284383] Fri, 14 September 2007 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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Ryan3k wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 16:55

Quote:

While I understand the dangers of drugs, and I do not do drugs, I see no reason why others should be kept from doing what they want with their bodies. What people do in their homes and to themselves is none of our business. We don't have to like it, and we don't have to do it ourselves. We should just let it be and live OUR lives the way we want it, instead of deciding on how someone else should be living theirs. What if vegetarians were the majority and decided that eating animal meat should be illegal and they pass a law against eating meat?


This is not a good example. You should have thought it out more carefully.

Anti-drug laws exist because of the general idea that drugs injure the common good (simply put). This is due to their ability to addict, harm, and kill people who would otherwise be of contribution to society at large.

Eating meat is not injurious to the common good.

Why do my analogies of the PRINCIPLE always fly over everybody else's heads? I don't care if eating meat is equivalent to snorting cocaine or not. I care about the principle that a group of people is restricting another group from putting a substance into their bodies.


whoa.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284541 is a reply to message #284103] Sat, 15 September 2007 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocko
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do you really think people choose to be gay and that some just aren't born like that? lol

black and proud
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284548 is a reply to message #284541] Sat, 15 September 2007 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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Rocko wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 19:58

do you really think people choose to be gay and that some just aren't born like that? lol

It's certainly not genetic. If identical twins can have differing sexual orientation, then it's something other than being hardwired. Either way, this is a different discussion for another time... as I stated.


whoa.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284600 is a reply to message #284548] Sat, 15 September 2007 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rocko
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cheesesoda wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 19:45

Rocko wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 19:58

do you really think people choose to be gay and that some just aren't born like that? lol

It's certainly not genetic. If identical twins can have differing sexual orientation, then it's something other than being hardwired. Either way, this is a different discussion for another time... as I stated.

Twins even have different finger prints. They're not entirely identical by any means. I don't think any is going to argue the rest of your points. You made some good ones. So lets talk about it anyways. It was a little unclear but do you think that gay dude shouldn't have the right to be married? What makes you disagree with it at all? Because you're told that as a christian?


black and proud

[Updated on: Sat, 15 September 2007 22:09]

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Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284605 is a reply to message #284103] Sat, 15 September 2007 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aprime
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Ugh, I have a hard time taking your opinions seriously when it comes to politics and to what's right and what isn't. In some cases, your views sadly remind of Hitler's. Inhuman. I don't personally stick to a camp when it comes to politics, so I'm pretty safe from the right/left crap...

Sorry Jake, as much as I like you... Don't try and make the world "better" (as in: according to you).


FUCK
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284641 is a reply to message #284103] Sun, 16 September 2007 07:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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Rocko: Fingerprints are created by skin growing and bunching up. That has nothing to do with genetics, either. I thought I made it clear that the right-wing has no right to tell homosexuals what they can and cannot do according to love and marriage. I was making a point by saying that even if you disagree with it (as I do), it doesn't make it right for you to make the decision for them.

Aprime: At least, my view point allows people to make the world as they want it. My view point gives people the ability to make decisions of their own and to live accordingly. It's far from "inhuman". If anything's inhuman, it's trying to justify stealing from taxpayers and giving the money to people who don't deserve it in this whole farce of an idea of "common good". Just because you want to be Robin Hood doesn't make it right. Did you even read my post?


whoa.
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284672 is a reply to message #284103] Sun, 16 September 2007 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aprime
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Colonel

I wasn't limiting my comments to the ones you posted (as I matter of fact, I agree with some of them), but your opinion of how poverty and all that should be dealt with...

FUCK
Re: What I Hate About the Left and the Right: Right [message #284680 is a reply to message #284103] Sun, 16 September 2007 11:44 Go to previous message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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So you're saying that the government should play the role of Robin Hood?

I have compassion for the homeless. I have passion for the sick and dying. I donated money to the children's hospital in Detroit over the past Christmas. I'm not heartless, I just see better ways of handling poverty than with the government stealing from its citizens and giving it to people, especially the undeserving.

This defends my point much better than I can: http://www.lp.org/issues/welfare.shtml


whoa.
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