Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second
| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283510 is a reply to message #283422] |
Mon, 10 September 2007 18:11   |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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The single best deterrent to crime is an armed and trained general populace. Nothing stops aspiring felons quite like the knowledge that they'll more than likely end up dead if they act on their impulses- nothing. Guns are the proverbial genie in the bottle- there's no way to rid society of them, and if you enact legislation to prohibit gun ownership then the only people who will be unable to acquire them are people who obey the laws in the first place. The bottom line is that a person hell-bent on crime will find the means to commit that crime regardless of what the law says, and the police are by and large a reactive force (they act after a crime has already been committed)- without a reliable protective force in place (and many, myself included, would be somewhat put off by any authority with that much power), the next best thing is a gun. There doesn't exist a single non-lethal or less-than-lethal defensive weapon or technique which has yet been able to rival a gun for the fast, decisive, and utterly final elimination of a threat. People have been known in extreme situations to shrug off pepper spray, tazers, and just about any hand-to-hand defensive move, but a bullet in the head stops anything- period.
Yes, there are and always will be morons who slip through the cracks and use guns to do harm to the innocent- however, it is important to note that violent crime rates are lower overall (not just for gun crimes, but all violent crimes) in areas which have enacted right-to-carry legislation- whereas other areas which have enacted handgun bans or all-inclusive gun bans have some of the highest crime rates on record- places like Washington D.C. and New York, for example. Ever wonder why Sweden, a country where nearly every adult is armed and trained, has the lowest crime rate of any country in the world? There is no better deterrent to crime than death, as cold as that fact may be. Criminals are by and large selfish creatures by nature, and they stand to gain very little from a populace armed, willing, and able to defend against their actions.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283514 is a reply to message #283422] |
Mon, 10 September 2007 18:32 |
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nikki6ixx
Messages: 2545
Registered: August 2007
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I believe all guns should be pink, and restricted only to women.
Not only are chicks with guns a turn on for some men, but seeing as women are the 'fairer' sex, they should be the ones who are heated.
Plus, women tend rationalize their actions better than men (still scientifically debatable). If this guy were a lady, and wasn't a former NASA astronaut, I doubt he/she'd have done this.
Renegade:
| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 10 January 2014 16:56 |
The only game where everyone competes to be an e-janitor.
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[Updated on: Mon, 10 September 2007 18:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283556 is a reply to message #283510] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 03:50 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| NukeIt15 wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 03:11 |
The single best deterrent to crime is an armed and trained general populace. Nothing stops aspiring felons quite like the knowledge that they'll more than likely end up dead if they act on their impulses- nothing. Guns are the proverbial genie in the bottle- there's no way to rid society of them, and if you enact legislation to prohibit gun ownership then the only people who will be unable to acquire them are people who obey the laws in the first place. The bottom line is that a person hell-bent on crime will find the means to commit that crime regardless of what the law says, and the police are by and large a reactive force (they act after a crime has already been committed)- without a reliable protective force in place (and many, myself included, would be somewhat put off by any authority with that much power), the next best thing is a gun. There doesn't exist a single non-lethal or less-than-lethal defensive weapon or technique which has yet been able to rival a gun for the fast, decisive, and utterly final elimination of a threat. People have been known in extreme situations to shrug off pepper spray, tazers, and just about any hand-to-hand defensive move, but a bullet in the head stops anything- period.
Yes, there are and always will be morons who slip through the cracks and use guns to do harm to the innocent- however, it is important to note that violent crime rates are lower overall (not just for gun crimes, but all violent crimes) in areas which have enacted right-to-carry legislation- whereas other areas which have enacted handgun bans or all-inclusive gun bans have some of the highest crime rates on record- places like Washington D.C. and New York, for example. Ever wonder why Sweden, a country where nearly every adult is armed and trained, has the lowest crime rate of any country in the world? There is no better deterrent to crime than death, as cold as that fact may be. Criminals are by and large selfish creatures by nature, and they stand to gain very little from a populace armed, willing, and able to defend against their actions.
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Now, please tell me, that in my country, the Netherlands, you are safe? Unless you got a special license you can't get a gun, and that license only allows you to carry it in a special locked case between your home and the shooting club. Also, before you can get one they'll look into your (criminal) records etc, additionally, you can't get the gun until you have proven capable to use it properly, at the shooting range.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283570 is a reply to message #283568] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 06:18 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468
Registered: June 2003
Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| AoBfrost wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 09:10 |
Actually with a test or licensce you can still kill people, just because you pass those requirments it doesnt mean your going to be a good person and not use them to kill others, in the USA they do a background check in gun shops and check your social security, you could come with a fake SS number and they will approve you.
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Err no.
When the clerk of court or a license gun dealer does a background check the name given is always checked against their database. You wont just be able to put in another number because the computer will instantly flag it.
Also the background check is done off of your drivers license, not your social security card.
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283571 is a reply to message #283542] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 06:21 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Ryu |
Remember that 11 year old that got killed last week?
A gun did that.
Still support selling guns without a license now?
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Yup. My rights are inalienable, in my opinion. Isolated incidents are going to happen. Accidents happen.
Should we rid of automobiles? They kill more innocent people per year than guns do. Still support manufacture of automobiles?
Yes? That's what I thought.
Edit: I would support having to own a gun license in order to purchase a weapon, but the license should be the equivalent of a driver's license. You have to know how to operate the gun, and know the laws regarding operation, but no background checks or anything more in-depth.
| Ryu |
That's what I thought.
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No, it's not.
whoa.
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 06:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283574 is a reply to message #283571] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 06:39 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 14:21 |
| Ryu |
Remember that 11 year old that got killed last week?
A gun did that.
Still support selling guns without a license now?
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Yup. My rights are inalienable, in my opinion. Isolated incidents are going to happen. Accidents happen.
Should we rid of automobiles? They kill more innocent people per year than guns do. Still support manufacture of automobiles?
Yes? That's what I thought.
Edit: I would support having to own a gun license in order to purchase a weapon, but the license should be the equivalent of a driver's license. You have to know how to operate the gun, and know the laws regarding operation, but no background checks or anything more in-depth.
| Ryu |
That's what I thought.
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No, it's not.
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However, this WASN'T an accident. How many people get killed by a car by purpose and how many get killed by a gun by purpose.
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283575 is a reply to message #283574] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 06:47 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Caveman wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 09:39 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 14:21 |
| Ryu |
Remember that 11 year old that got killed last week?
A gun did that.
Still support selling guns without a license now?
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Yup. My rights are inalienable, in my opinion. Isolated incidents are going to happen. Accidents happen.
Should we rid of automobiles? They kill more innocent people per year than guns do. Still support manufacture of automobiles?
Yes? That's what I thought.
Edit: I would support having to own a gun license in order to purchase a weapon, but the license should be the equivalent of a driver's license. You have to know how to operate the gun, and know the laws regarding operation, but no background checks or anything more in-depth.
| Ryu |
That's what I thought.
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No, it's not.
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However, this WASN'T an accident. How many people get killed by a car by purpose and how many get killed by a gun by purpose.
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That's irrelevant. It's obvious that there are more murders by gun than automobile. That's not the issue, as NukeIt pointed out. Those who are doing the shooting are, generally, criminals. Those criminals don't purchase their guns legally. Eliminating the ability for a law-abiding citizen to own a gun doesn't stop the criminal from owning a gun.
If we're talking about murders committed by people properly licensed for automobile and guns, I'd say the amount is about equal. People do maliciously run each other over in a fit of rage.
whoa.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283576 is a reply to message #283571] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 06:50 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2498
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 2
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General (2 Stars) |
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Well said, cheesesoda.
I find it disgusting that people say guns should be removed because IT is causing problems. The gun did not commit the crime but the irresponsible idiots wielding it.
No one seems to understand what individual responsibility is. Those who want guns removed because it kills people are simply ignoring the facts. Oh yeah...let's put the multi-billion dollar industry out of business because it automatically solves everyone's problems. 
How many kids end up dead after playing with guns? Whose fault is that? The gun manufacturers? BS...it is the fault of the idiot parents/guardians for not keeping their guns locked away out of sight and reach.
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 06:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283581 is a reply to message #283578] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 07:32 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Yes I agree that its down to the person who has the fucking gun in his hand. The gun didn't pull its own trigger, however, to go into a shop and walk out 15 mins later with a pistol is STUPID. You sure as hell can't do that over here.
From my understand I am a sane person. So if I lived in the US I could probably goto the shop and purchase a gun? Now I know im not going to walk out of the shop and hold some old granny for her purse that probably has like $10 in it. But if I was at home and lets say my best friend has been sleeping with my girl. I am fairly certain that the thought of shooting him would go through my mind a good few times, which could lead into something that I would later regret. If I didn't have the gun in the first place then the thought wouldn't have had been there.
That is what im trying to say. Most of us here are sane normal people but if someone pushes the right buttons, god knows what will come over you.
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 07:33] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283584 is a reply to message #283422] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 07:45 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9735
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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5 year old boy can't sleep, goes down the stairs and grabs something to drink. Father hears something and thinks it's a burglar.
Father A has a cell phone next to his bed
Father B has a shotgun next to his bed
Guess who has most risk of killing his own son, cheesesoda? And don't say this never happened before... oops: accident?
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 07:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283585 is a reply to message #283581] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 07:49 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Caveman wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 10:32 |
But if I was at home and lets say my best friend has been sleeping with my girl. I am fairly certain that the thought of shooting him would go through my mind a good few times, which could lead into something that I would later regret. If I didn't have the gun in the first place then the thought wouldn't have had been there.
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Wait, so it's the gun's fault that you can't deal with your anger? Yes, let's blame the gun for that! This goes right back to my automobile argument. You could murder your friend with your car. By that argument, automobiles should be illegal.
It's called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you should. Just because I have a tongue doesn't mean I should go around licking people. Just because I have hair doesn't mean I should rip it out in a fit of rage. Let's shave everybody's heads and cut off their tongues!
Yes, a gun would make it EASIER to kill your best friend, but if you want to kill him, you're going to do it regardless of what you have to use. Whether it be a car, bat, knife, your fists, or the HORRIBLE gun.
whoa.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283591 is a reply to message #283587] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 08:03 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| Caveman wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 10:56 |
You don't seem to understand, theres a point where personal responsablity isn't a factor anymore because you're so enraged. You don't think. (Yes this is your fault) but once you reach this point its kinda hard to stop and think.
What im trying to say is, Guns are designed to kill people, cars aren't. I'd rather have someone beat the shit out of me because I pissed them off to the level of no return than to get shot by him because he has a gun that he just bought 15mins ago for a store.
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No, you don't understand the concept of personal responsibility, then. Your actions are your own REGARDLESS OF YOUR MENTAL STATE. Sure, it's more understandable why you would react a certain way in a situation, but it still doesn't change the fact that YOU did the act.
Again, if we use your logic, automobiles could be used in the same fashion. What makes that any better? Because automobiles serves an alternate purpose? Guns server an alternate purpose than to murder people. They serve to protect others, and they're also great for recreation.
whoa.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283592 is a reply to message #283422] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 08:13 |
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Oblivion165
Messages: 3468
Registered: June 2003
Location: Hendersonville, North Car...
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General (3 Stars) |
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I have pistol that I carry in my pocket (recent mugging just one building over) that I've had since I was 13 and I haven't shot one round out of it in those 7 years.
This is a very nice apartment complex and even it has the occasional crime. Some people walk around with guns like a kid with a walkie talkie. They think they have some power or authority and want to show it so they take any chance they can to use it.
Any and all decent gun safety course cover those types of situations. They teach you how to keep your cool and use a gun safely.
Now keep in mine that my handgun is very illegal in 3 ways, so that does make me hide the fact of ownership a lot more but never once shooting it in 7 years shows that I can handle myself and use a gun wisely.
Big Note: Yes I have shot many, many other guns in my life. Growing up in Texas requires you to have a gun. When I was a kid the sheriffs office would even train kids on gun safety to ensure that the kids would be safe and that the parents would trust their kids with a weapon.
Texas summers are like so: (Lake dallas Texas, just north of Dallas.)
113 degree summers and animals in order of quantity: Snakes, Scorpions and Tarantulas. You had to be on your toes and know how to use a gun incase you got in a situation that required one.
The rules as I remember them:
Ages 8 and under - No guns at all and adult required supervision just to play in the woods.
Ages 9 - 11 BB Guns with a certain amount of power
Ages 12 - 15 Pellet Guns
Ages 16 and up - .22 Caliber Rifles, CB caps only.
As long as your gun and age fit then you had no trouble from johnny law carrying them around your neighborhood or around the woods where us kids played. It was just the way of life.
I don't know how many snakes I've killed as a kid but I never once shot one just to shoot, the high temperatures made them pissed off and they didn't mind chasing you to show you just how mad they really were.
The other two seemed to always corner you in your own home. Scorpions are the worst, they are not afraid of you at all and they ALWAYS trap you somehow.
EDIT: Oh and I forgot to mention that never once did I hear of a kid shooting another kid in our neighborhood. Snake bites and Scorpion stings out the ass but even as kids we all knew it was not a toy.
WOL: Ob165ion Skype: Oblivion165 Yahoo Instant Messenger: CaptainJohn165
[Updated on: Tue, 11 September 2007 08:17] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283600 is a reply to message #283571] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 09:09 |
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Ryu
Messages: 2833
Registered: September 2006
Location: Liverpool, England.
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Isolated incidents are going to happen. Accidents happen.
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Who the fuck kills a 11 year old by accident and doesn't admit to it?
It's obvious he was murdered.
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Should we rid of automobiles? They kill more innocent people per year than guns do. Still support manufacture of automobiles?
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Obviously, Now, If people weren't retarded to drink alcohol and drive at the same time, them figures would be reduced alot.
Also, Looking both ways and using traffic lights to cross the road helps alot, Unless you're an idiot and have a death wish.
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 08:21 |
Edit: I would support having to own a gun license in order to purchase a weapon, but the license should be the equivalent of a driver's license. You have to know how to operate the gun, and know the laws regarding operation, but no background checks or anything more in-depth.
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Okay, So a nursery shouldn't be allowed to do background checks on someone they're about to employee? no?
The police shouldn't do background checks on people they're about to employee?
You don't know who you're selling the gun to, Back ground checks can tell you a little about what the person could do with the weapon.
Presence is a curious thing, if you think you need to prove it... you probably never had it in the first place.
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| Re: Man returns gun ammo to walmart at 1300 feet per second [message #283601 is a reply to message #283600] |
Tue, 11 September 2007 09:12 |
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EvilWhiteDragon
Messages: 3751
Registered: October 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Starbuzz wrote on Tue, 11 September 2007 15:50 |
Well said, cheesesoda.
I find it disgusting that people say guns should be removed because IT is causing problems. The gun did not commit the crime but the irresponsible idiots wielding it.
No one seems to understand what individual responsibility is. Those who want guns removed because it kills people are simply ignoring the facts. Oh yeah...let's put the multi-billion dollar industry out of business because it automatically solves everyone's problems.
How many kids end up dead after playing with guns? Whose fault is that? The gun manufacturers? BS...it is the fault of the idiot parents/guardians for not keeping their guns locked away out of sight and reach.
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All I'm saying is this: in the USA, where every dumb fuck can get a gun, you have loads of accidents with guns. As if that's not bad enough, how often can you actually use a gun to protect yourself? I'm not talking about your home because, wtf do I care about some idiot that wants to steal my stuff? I surely wouldn't want to kill him. Of course, it might differ a bit on what he's taking, but as long as it isn't personal stuff, the insurance will pay. For me that's not worth the risk anyway. Besides, because everyone can get a gun, what makes you think the criminal doesn't have one? He has nothing to lose, as you might kill him. He'll now probably kill you first. On a side note: how often you get robbed when you're home?
In the Netherlands you do have burglary of course, just like anywhere else. But not more then in other countries where you can easily legally get a gun. Also, you're saying that criminals can always get a gun. Perhaps this is true, but here you know that if someone is found to have a gun, he is a criminal and will get arrested. Also, in the USA there will be many many more guns, simply because everyone has one. Thus, the burglar we just mentioned can steal your gun, and there you go, another gun in criminal hands.
on your last point: if you keep your gun safely locked away, how can you (quickly) use it when there is a situation you can solve with a gun? So one way or another, that doesn't work. Now if you want to kill innocent children, be my guest, as long as I don't have to be a part of it.
BlackIntel admin/founder/PR dude (not a coder)
Please visit http://www.blackintel.org/
| V, V for Vendetta |
People should not be afraid of their governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people.
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