Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272026 is a reply to message #272005] |
Mon, 09 July 2007 15:56   |
Romaner
Messages: 355
Registered: January 2007
Location: edmonton, canada
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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oh sure stick it in my arm... and while you are on it you should put a chip in my brain that makes me think better...
a fuck it just rape me already since thats all that is! its really like the government having you...
if bush wants to go with this let him get one first then mayb i will do it (prob not).
its bullshit and if i need to i would take a ship over to europe than have them stick some shit in me... since knowing how the states are, in 5 years they will find out that this chip causes you to have cancer in 9/10 cases or some stupid shit like that.
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272081 is a reply to message #272072] |
Mon, 09 July 2007 21:56 |
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Starbuzz
Messages: 2492
Registered: May 2007
Karma: 2
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General (2 Stars) |
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| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:21 |
I don't know why everybody goes, "well, it's eventually going to happen" as if that's a logical reason to not try and prevent it. It's a pathetic cop-out. Maybe it is inevitable. I won't deny that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit by until it happens so we can say "See, I knew it would happen!"
Those under 18 may not have a voice, but those of us 18 and older should be fighting for what's right instead of sitting back and letting our freedoms fade away as if they never existed.
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So you are indirectly saying that I am below 18? Maybe you should learn to not make stupid hasty assumptions. I am way older than you think me to be and I have a voice and I am a fucking arrogant SOB who thinks rationally and will kick the bullshit out of anyone who try to force their shit on me.
You greatly misunderstood my statement...to equate me with the "See, I knew it would happen!" statement is an insult against my personality. Cuz you have no fucking clue as to who I am in real life.
I meant that eventually the majority of the people will be sold on the idea as to make the cause of the few hopeless.
This trend is quite true...when a radical concept is proposed, there is a lot of opposition initially. But as time goes on, people get used to it and adapt to the situation. Even those who vehemantly opposed it get tired and settle in. In the end, only a few will be left defending what they believe.
I don't want to derail the topic but take the case for the acceptance of homosexuality. In 1999, there were more Americans who were opposed to it...now in 2007, that percentage has drastically fallen. Why? The idea became more accepted...it looked very "wrong" at first but more and more people came to realize that it was harmless after all. And this will continue.
So likewise, I am sure that will be the case with this chip too...what? You think people are gonna learn how to live in the woods and not go buy groceries? Hell, people will give up too easily.
Forget Bush's bill...this is gonna take a long time, maybe decades to implement (but this will come true). This is a progressive thing...like a slow (but very active) spreading cancer. The government is not going to fix a day and set up centers to inject you with this chip...they are gonna do it one area at a time. And the technology to make it all work in a massive scale is not everywhere yet and it will cost money. It's not gonna happen overnight. And this is the greatest disadvantage (to the people) because time is in the hands of the government...and the longer it takes, the more time people have to think about it and let the idea sink in. And the more people put the idea into the bottom drawer thinking it will not happen any time soon. Eventually, thanks to them putting it off, they will be forced to become accustomed to it, accept it as the reality and Mr. Government will come out on top.
That's why we need to fight right now...we must fight right now and cripple the development of such privacy-invading technologies. But how many people will stand up today, right now against this? Count me in but just a few will resist...because to many people, this is a far off thing. They think it will never affect their lives but they will be surprised when it catches them...and they will lose then.
But I am sure, the government will face a very difficult battle because this involves your own physical body...the last place you want the government to invade.
But the populations of the future (the babies of today and their descendants) will have a different mindset...an attitude that makes it easy for the governemnt to implement such technology on a personal level. Recall how fast technology grew in the 20th century? Likewise, our descendants will grow in a technology rich environment...since they will grow up surrounded by these things, they will be more used to it and more open to technology.
Look around you...do you see any senior citizens with a fucking godamned iPhone? Or a cellphone or laptop or a computer as a matter of fact? The vast majority of them do not embrace these things because it is new to them...but the generations that came after them do because they grew in a technology-rich place....and this trend is only going to accelerate even further as time goes on. I will let you decide if that is good or bad.
We have people today who camp outside the Apple store to get thir hands on a iPhone like as if it's a shit they can't live without. I don't blame them...they (and us) grew in an age of technology...some embrace it and others are more conservative...but the conservatives in this matter are vastly outnumbered and eventually, unless they are all prepared to live in the desert/jungle OR rise up right now, they will have to bow down to the harsh reality.
[Updated on: Mon, 09 July 2007 22:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272189 is a reply to message #272081] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 06:30 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| BuzzOfTheStar wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 00:56 |
| cheesesoda wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 11:21 |
I don't know why everybody goes, "well, it's eventually going to happen" as if that's a logical reason to not try and prevent it. It's a pathetic cop-out. Maybe it is inevitable. I won't deny that possibility, but that doesn't mean that we should just sit by until it happens so we can say "See, I knew it would happen!"
Those under 18 may not have a voice, but those of us 18 and older should be fighting for what's right instead of sitting back and letting our freedoms fade away as if they never existed.
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So you are indirectly saying that I am below 18? Maybe you should learn to not make stupid hasty assumptions. I am way older than you think me to be and I have a voice and I am a fucking arrogant SOB who thinks rationally and will kick the bullshit out of anyone who try to force their shit on me.
You greatly misunderstood my statement...to equate me with the "See, I knew it would happen!" statement is an insult against my personality. Cuz you have no fucking clue as to who I am in real life.
I meant that eventually the majority of the people will be sold on the idea as to make the cause of the few hopeless.
This trend is quite true...when a radical concept is proposed, there is a lot of opposition initially. But as time goes on, people get used to it and adapt to the situation. Even those who vehemantly opposed it get tired and settle in. In the end, only a few will be left defending what they believe.
I don't want to derail the topic but take the case for the acceptance of homosexuality. In 1999, there were more Americans who were opposed to it...now in 2007, that percentage has drastically fallen. Why? The idea became more accepted...it looked very "wrong" at first but more and more people came to realize that it was harmless after all. And this will continue.
So likewise, I am sure that will be the case with this chip too...what? You think people are gonna learn how to live in the woods and not go buy groceries? Hell, people will give up too easily.
Forget Bush's bill...this is gonna take a long time, maybe decades to implement (but this will come true). This is a progressive thing...like a slow (but very active) spreading cancer. The government is not going to fix a day and set up centers to inject you with this chip...they are gonna do it one area at a time. And the technology to make it all work in a massive scale is not everywhere yet and it will cost money. It's not gonna happen overnight. And this is the greatest disadvantage (to the people) because time is in the hands of the government...and the longer it takes, the more time people have to think about it and let the idea sink in. And the more people put the idea into the bottom drawer thinking it will not happen any time soon. Eventually, thanks to them putting it off, they will be forced to become accustomed to it, accept it as the reality and Mr. Government will come out on top.
That's why we need to fight right now...we must fight right now and cripple the development of such privacy-invading technologies. But how many people will stand up today, right now against this? Count me in but just a few will resist...because to many people, this is a far off thing. They think it will never affect their lives but they will be surprised when it catches them...and they will lose then.
But I am sure, the government will face a very difficult battle because this involves your own physical body...the last place you want the government to invade.
But the populations of the future (the babies of today and their descendants) will have a different mindset...an attitude that makes it easy for the governemnt to implement such technology on a personal level. Recall how fast technology grew in the 20th century? Likewise, our descendants will grow in a technology rich environment...since they will grow up surrounded by these things, they will be more used to it and more open to technology.
Look around you...do you see any senior citizens with a fucking godamned iPhone? Or a cellphone or laptop or a computer as a matter of fact? The vast majority of them do not embrace these things because it is new to them...but the generations that came after them do because they grew in a technology-rich place....and this trend is only going to accelerate even further as time goes on. I will let you decide if that is good or bad.
We have people today who camp outside the Apple store to get thir hands on a iPhone like as if it's a shit they can't live without. I don't blame them...they (and us) grew in an age of technology...some embrace it and others are more conservative...but the conservatives in this matter are vastly outnumbered and eventually, unless they are all prepared to live in the desert/jungle OR rise up right now, they will have to bow down to the harsh reality.
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I never implied that you are under 18. I included everybody who reads this when I said that, including you in case you're under 18.
It is a cop-out to just say that it will eventually happen. At least, that's what it came across to me, and far too many people use it.
While I agree with most of what you said, the difference between the iPhone and the microchip is that the iPhone is just a possession. A microchip will be much more than that. It'll be a tracking device. It'll destroy whatever privacy we thought we had. The iPhone just makes you look cool (or so one thinks).
whoa.
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272200 is a reply to message #272195] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 07:30 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 09:58 |
And? Who cares if they know where you are at any given point.
Unless you're suggesting you will end up being somewhere you shouldn't be?
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Do you leave the door open when you go to the bathroom? Do you like it when people are listening in to your conversations? Do you want someone to just watch you wherever you go?
I don't know about you, but I don't like the idea of my privacy being invaded whether or not I'm doing something illegal. Even more so than that, I hate the idea of being tracked for the simple fact that it's the principle of my freedoms being taken from me.
I don't do anything wrong when I go to the bathroom. Afterall, it is natural to have to go to the bathroom, yet I still shut the door. Even if my phone conversation is innocent chit-chat, I still don't care for people to be listening over my shoulder. I may just be going from home to work and vice versa, but I still wouldn't want someone to tail me.
What is it with you people and the screwed-up idea that I'm implying I want to do something illegal because I want my life to be... MY life?
Also, I own the government. I should know what they're doing at all times, not the government watching me.
whoa.
[Updated on: Tue, 10 July 2007 07:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272211 is a reply to message #272005] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 08:01 |
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Ghostshaw
Messages: 709
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I find americans so amusing.
On one ahnd they say: OMG NO KEEP US SAFE! and then when their goverment comes up with something that can potentially make a sever difference, they all complain that it infringes their privacy.
FYI this wouldn't be all that different from a normal ID as RFID range is very very limited. And when your for example inside a car, it won't work because it acts like a cage of farraday, blocking out all radiowaves.
-Ghost-
BlackIntel Administrator
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272219 is a reply to message #272005] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 08:58 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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Yeah, there would be pros to it, but the cons completely outweigh them. If you want to be tracked, then it should be a voluntary act to get a microchip implanted in your skin. If you want the government's protection, then you can pay for it by yourself.
How are you going to say that's a joke? If I can't have the freedom to choose, what's the purpose of living? I'm not going to be the drone of a few arrogant officials.
I'm not perverting what Benjamin Franklin said. My privacy is an essential freedom that would be exchanged for some temporary safety. I'm going to die, anyways, so why should I pretend that I'm invincible by having my government be my keeper? I am not my brother's keeper, and I certainly don't want big brother to be mine.
The blip on a screen is my privacy being eroded by the government.
I also know about that phone tracking.
whoa.
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272228 is a reply to message #272005] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 09:57 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Heh, sorry... lots of incomplete thoughts there. That's what you get for trying to answer questions in the middle of working.
"Liberty or death" is a joke because EVERYONE gives up some liberty by choice, whether they are aware of it or not. The second the government enacts any type of law, a liberty is eroded. Be it to prevent businesses lying to their shareholders, prevent murder from occurring, or to be able to locate someone at a given point and time. The concept of it is fine, but in practice it doesn't hold up.
"Privacy" being an essential freedom is correct, however you give up that freedom the moment you open a window or walk outside, or anywhere else someone can see you. That's all this does, with a lot less information than someone in visual range.
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272230 is a reply to message #272005] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 10:20 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Should you not be able to choose how much of your private life is available to people at any given time? When you open a window, people will see what you let them see. When you go outside, people will see you, and how much of you, or what you're thinking, you can express by your appearance or what you say; with these things, you choose how much of your privacy is invaded.
When you get a bank of credit card, you sign an agreement which states exactly what information can be collected about you. You agree to whatever privacy violations they pose to you; therefore, since you agreed to them, they aren't privacy violations at all. The data protection act is relevant here. If information is given to people that you didn't agree to, you can take the violater to court. You choose the terms by which information about you can be used. It looks to me as though this new technology will make certain things that people normally wouldn't agree to mandatory. If people don't want this stuff implemented, then it shouldn't be implemented.
Why am I reminded of The Matrix when I read about this stuff?
Sometimes I wish I had the money to go live in the country.
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| Re: Real ID Act and the Threat of a Police State [message #272232 is a reply to message #272228] |
Tue, 10 July 2007 10:22 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| warranto wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 12:57 |
Heh, sorry... lots of incomplete thoughts there. That's what you get for trying to answer questions in the middle of working.
"Liberty or death" is a joke because EVERYONE gives up some liberty by choice, whether they are aware of it or not. The second the government enacts any type of law, a liberty is eroded. Be it to prevent businesses lying to their shareholders, prevent murder from occurring, or to be able to locate someone at a given point and time. The concept of it is fine, but in practice it doesn't hold up.
"Privacy" being an essential freedom is correct, however you give up that freedom the moment you open a window or walk outside, or anywhere else someone can see you. That's all this does, with a lot less information than someone in visual range.
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Well, yes, I know there is some liberty given up. I do agree with some of it, after all, I'm not an anarchist. However, those aren't necessities being given up. I give up the ability to take the law into my own hands, and I'm fine with that.
Yeah, I give that up when I open a window or walk outside, but the huge GLARING difference between the two? I made the decision to open my window and walk outside. I did so under my own power. Letting the government know where I'm at without me doing so is the impeding on my privacy.
whoa.
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