Home » Renegade Discussions » Clan/Community Forum » Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training
| Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271001] |
Thu, 05 July 2007 16:00  |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I want to head off the ugly, flame-filled 20-page forum thread over some clan gaining an unfair advantage over another clan using server-side stuff; hence, this thread.
Moderator/administrator abuse is a problem for any server; however, when the stakes become higher, the problem is simply magnified. What is worse is when a server-side modification introduces something that can be abused by one side or another. Hence, a consensus is needed on 1) what is this problem about and 2) what needs to be done/is being done about it. A rough outline of how I see this issue follows.
1) Administration
-- Normal problems (substitutions, disconnects, hopelessly stuck players, vehicle theft?)
-- Intruders (how to prevent them and what to do about one)
-- RenGuard issues (RG kicked me for some odd reason)
-- Server outages (somebody pulled the plug out of the wall, ...)
-- Auditing (what is enough?)
-- Avoiding abuse (just how should we define this in different environments?)
2) Modifications
-- What is allowed and what isn't
-- SSGM/SSAOW setup
-- Regulators, the RG SSC, and WOLSpy
-- BIATCH
-- The clientside (scripts.dll, RenD3D9, ...)
3) Environmental issues (training vs. funwar/scrimmage vs. CW.cc match)
4) What should be done and what is being done (break down by environment)
I hope that
1) this discussion will be constructive and
2) that this thread can be stickied for future reference
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271020 is a reply to message #271001] |
Thu, 05 July 2007 17:08  |
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sadukar09
Messages: 2812
Registered: May 2007
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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If this is really happening (can't deny it as it happens) maybe clan wars should be hosted in a trusted CW server e.g. C4U, Spoony's etc. BUT if it's clanwars.cc (spoony's stuff) maybe a suspension from clanwars.cc or make the clan that used serverside advantage lose points.
EDIT: Just a suggestion. You can have 2 installs of Renegade on your computer (not normal+TFD) One pure+renguard and one your normal file+skins+renguard. If you play on your normal server , you use the normal install, but if you go to clanwars you use the pure.
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[19:16:48] <APBBR> @ryan3k: THE ENFIELD DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BECAUSE THE BULLETS INSTANTLY HIT THEIR TARGETS LOL
[19:16:52] <APBBR> @ryan3k: CHRONO TECHNOLOGY IN TEH BULLETS
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[22:48]<APBBR> @V0LK0V: AOL COMING UR WAI K
[22:48] <APBBR> Host: Quitting due to Westwood Online connection loss.
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[Updated on: Thu, 05 July 2007 17:10] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271026 is a reply to message #271020] |
Thu, 05 July 2007 17:44 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| sadukar09 wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 19:08 |
If this is really happening (can't deny it as it happens) maybe clan wars should be hosted in a trusted CW server e.g. C4U, Spoony's etc. BUT if it's clanwars.cc (spoony's stuff) maybe a suspension from clanwars.cc or make the clan that used serverside advantage lose points.
EDIT: Just a suggestion. You can have 2 installs of Renegade on your computer (not normal+TFD) One pure+renguard and one your normal file+skins+renguard. If you play on your normal server , you use the normal install, but if you go to clanwars you use the pure.
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2)I don't use any skins personally, but that is a good idea, since I sometimes need to go do weird things to my Renegade anyhow!
1) Yeah, the SLAP thing that Spoony started up is a good idea. So is punishing clans that used serverside advantage illegally. Spoony: any input? 
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271028 is a reply to message #271026] |
Thu, 05 July 2007 17:59 |
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Spoony
Messages: 3915
Registered: January 2006
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Tactics & Strategies Moderator |
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as far as Clanwars.cc goes:
there is a thing called SLAP (Server/League Admin Partnership) a server can join. there are about a dozen servers in it so far (if you sort the advanced game listings by passworded, pretty much anything with 'Clanwars.cc' in it)
a SLAP server can specify alternate in-game rules, server modifications, etc. All they need is the green light from the league admins.
a non-SLAP server can't have anything other than default rules and settings.
Unleash the Renerageâ„¢
Renedrama [ren-i-drah-muh]
- noun
1. the inevitable criticism one receives after doing something awful
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271030 is a reply to message #271001] |
Thu, 05 July 2007 18:09 |
IR4p3dy0u
Messages: 121
Registered: March 2007
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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Normal problems (substitutions, disconnects, hopelessly stuck players, vehicle theft?) Vehicle theft, your your own clanmates steal your vehicle, you got a gay clan.
-- Intruders (how to prevent them and what to do about one)Thats why we have mods in about every active clan
-- RenGuard issues (RG kicked me for some odd reason) RG sucks dont use it
-- Server outages (somebody pulled the plug out of the wall, ...)Most servers arent based from home, so not normally an issue
-- Auditing (what is enough?)Explain?
-- Avoiding abuse (just how should we define this in different environments?)Explain?
2) Modifications
-- What is allowed and what isn't: Most clanwars.cc server are pretty much standard AOW no stupid game mods.
-- SSGM/SSAOW setup: Standard AOW without any crates or donate
-- Regulators, the RG SSC, and WOLSpy: Bot doesnt really effect gameplay
-- BIATCH: To my knowledge all clanwars.cc server run BIATCH
-- The clientside (scripts.dll, RenD3D9, ...): Scripts that are run dont really effect the overall outcome of the game due to clanwars.cc servers are strictly Standard AOW usually
3) Environmental issues (training vs. funwar/scrimmage vs. CW.cc match)You play a clanwars.cc clan in a slap server, its considered a clanwar pretty much
4) What should be done and what is being done (break down by environment)Renadmins oversee things for clanwars.cc, if we have suggestrions we take it to them or spoony, Clanwars outside of clanwars.cc Its for fun.
Also Im not aware of to many in game mods that make an advantage for 1 side or the other. IMHO all clanwars should be played at 2 credits per second no vehicle crates or any other dumb crates, No crates is best.
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271190 is a reply to message #271030] |
Fri, 06 July 2007 08:40 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| IR4p3dy0u wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 20:09 |
Normal problems (substitutions, disconnects, hopelessly stuck players, vehicle theft?) Vehicle theft, your your own clanmates steal your vehicle, you got a gay clan.
-- Intruders (how to prevent them and what to do about one)Thats why we have mods in about every active clan
-- RenGuard issues (RG kicked me for some odd reason) RG sucks dont use it
-- Server outages (somebody pulled the plug out of the wall, ...)Most servers arent based from home, so not normally an issue
-- Auditing (what is enough?)Explain?
-- Avoiding abuse (just how should we define this in different environments?)Explain?
2) Modifications
-- What is allowed and what isn't: Most clanwars.cc server are pretty much standard AOW no stupid game mods.
-- SSGM/SSAOW setup: Standard AOW without any crates or donate
-- Regulators, the RG SSC, and WOLSpy: Bot doesnt really effect gameplay
-- BIATCH: To my knowledge all clanwars.cc server run BIATCH
-- The clientside (scripts.dll, RenD3D9, ...): Scripts that are run dont really effect the overall outcome of the game due to clanwars.cc servers are strictly Standard AOW usually
3) Environmental issues (training vs. funwar/scrimmage vs. CW.cc match)You play a clanwars.cc clan in a slap server, its considered a clanwar pretty much
4) What should be done and what is being done (break down by environment)Renadmins oversee things for clanwars.cc, if we have suggestrions we take it to them or spoony, Clanwars outside of clanwars.cc Its for fun.
Also Im not aware of to many in game mods that make an advantage for 1 side or the other. IMHO all clanwars should be played at 2 credits per second no vehicle crates or any other dumb crates, No crates is best.
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Again, some good stuff pointed out here.
As for the auditing and avoiding abuse things, SLAP takes care of most of 'em. There is one point we haven't quite gotten to in this thread yet: Which logs should be used as evidence (and which shouldn't), as there is no single log file that contains everything needed to reconstruct what happened.
Auditing = recording what happened (one way or another) in case an admin needs to look at it later, btw
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: Server-sided issues wrt CWs and training [message #271252 is a reply to message #271220] |
Fri, 06 July 2007 16:39 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| IR4p3dy0u wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 12:27 |
Well with clanwars.cc SLAP servers, renadmins have access to any logs they request at any time if theres an issue that comes up. Each server is has an owner/owners they can request logs from if the need arises.
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again, SLAP FTW! (and a big shout out to Spoony and friends for working this idea out)
p.s. I should work on fixing the logging muckheap that we currently have 
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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