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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251569 is a reply to message #251550] Sun, 25 March 2007 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
puddle_splasher is currently offline  puddle_splasher
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JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 06:21

Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 01:28

Actually, there are tonnes of passive ways of testing whether or not someone has a cheat userside. If you are repeatedly subject to being targetted from unreasonable distances, being shot from unreasonable distances, or otherwise being subject to unreasonable hositility ingame from the same player; you're dealing with a cheater. You don't need to affect MY game in any appreciable way to test whether some fucktard is cheating.

Of course, you could always just take my suggestion from before and program your OWN renguard and run it the way you like.


OK I'll try a step for step procedure this time. I'm going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that even someone that seemingly combines arrogance and ignorance should be able to follow me on this:

1. Do you agree that this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmFTGTH-k0) is a cheat?
2. Do you want people to continue being able to use this sound in Renguard protected servers?
3. How are you possibly going to catch someone using it if a) it's not picked up by anti-cheat software and b) it doesn't even increase the range of the sound, thus always leaving open the possibility of fair play?

I think if you dodge these simple and fair questions, your opinion on this matter can be disregarded. Actually, anyone can ask themselves these questions to determine which side of the fence they're on. Having compulsive cheaters like SilentKane agreeing with you should be a subtle hint...


JD, 1) Yes, 2) No, 3) You won't.

If you had left your questions, closed (answering yes or no)!!! Then you would have done yourself a lot of credit for summing up this whole topic with a few direct questions.

However, by leading players to agree with your opinion is an un-acceptable ploy. To state that an adverse opinion CAN!! be disregarded is unfair, as that is only your opinion of right and wrong. What is wrong for you, may be be correct for someone else. Having to influnece players to vote your way, by dredging up in your words, "Having compulsive cheaters like......". is also wrong. Again you are evidently attempting to influence the players. "SK"....I have never met or played against him and I steadfastly refuse to accept someones word as "The Gospel Truth" regards them cheating until verified by myself. Oh do not get me wrong, I will always be suspicious of any said person, until proven otherwise.

IMHO, The questions that you pose, if answered honestly, by any player, without taking due regard to your last part of the statement, will indeed give you the result that you so evidently seek.

Is it now possible for "JD" to run a poll on his questions and if so, "WHAT" can, in reality, be done with the results?


[Updated on: Sun, 25 March 2007 07:56]

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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251575 is a reply to message #251550] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 07:21

Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 01:28

Actually, there are tonnes of passive ways of testing whether or not someone has a cheat userside. If you are repeatedly subject to being targetted from unreasonable distances, being shot from unreasonable distances, or otherwise being subject to unreasonable hositility ingame from the same player; you're dealing with a cheater. You don't need to affect MY game in any appreciable way to test whether some fucktard is cheating.

Of course, you could always just take my suggestion from before and program your OWN renguard and run it the way you like.


OK I'll try a step for step procedure this time. I'm going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that even someone that seemingly combines arrogance and ignorance should be able to follow me on this:

1. Do you agree that this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmFTGTH-k0) is a cheat?
2. Do you want people to continue being able to use this sound in Renguard protected servers?
3. How are you possibly going to catch someone using it if a) it's not picked up by anti-cheat software and b) it doesn't even increase the range of the sound, thus always leaving open the possibility of fair play?




It's adorable that you think grade 10 debating tactics will win you any kind of merit points, but you're still making a piss poor case here.

I would question several things about that video. Most importantly being how the 'cheat' was implemented. If you changed an objects.ddb file; hence the radius of effective sound, then yes; it is a cheat. However, if you simply changed the .wav file, I'll continue to tell you to go fuck yourself (and rightly so). If that is the case, then your quam is with the discernability of a sound in relation to other sounds. Considering the stealth tank and the medium tank in that video have sounds that play at similar frequencies they are more difficult, but not impossible to discern. Considering some players have totally different sounds (my medium tank isn't the default engine sound either), then even if I chose to have a stock stealth tank sound I would be able to discern it extremely easily over my own engine sound. If the tank is within the radius the game sets that you can hear the sound, then you should never be judged for legitimately being allowed to call shenanigans if you so happen to hear a stealth vehicle.

All in all, at the end of the day I don't care if someone else is using a more discernable stealth tank sound; mostly because it isn't cheating, but also because a player with any talent would be able to discern a stealth tank anyway. If a player has editted their objects.ddb file, then they are quite literally cheating and ought be banned without respite. They can easily be found out by having renguard check the objects.ddb file for consistency (which I believe it already does) and banning those who aren't.



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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251576 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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SK has already admitted to cheating after he was pressured by Crimson...there was this big thread and drama because of it...I'm sure someone can dig up the link.

lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251579 is a reply to message #251575] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 10:17

JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 07:21

Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 01:28

Actually, there are tonnes of passive ways of testing whether or not someone has a cheat userside. If you are repeatedly subject to being targetted from unreasonable distances, being shot from unreasonable distances, or otherwise being subject to unreasonable hositility ingame from the same player; you're dealing with a cheater. You don't need to affect MY game in any appreciable way to test whether some fucktard is cheating.

Of course, you could always just take my suggestion from before and program your OWN renguard and run it the way you like.


OK I'll try a step for step procedure this time. I'm going out on a limb here, but I have a feeling that even someone that seemingly combines arrogance and ignorance should be able to follow me on this:

1. Do you agree that this: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmFTGTH-k0) is a cheat?
2. Do you want people to continue being able to use this sound in Renguard protected servers?
3. How are you possibly going to catch someone using it if a) it's not picked up by anti-cheat software and b) it doesn't even increase the range of the sound, thus always leaving open the possibility of fair play?




It's adorable that you think grade 10 debating tactics will win you any kind of merit points, but you're still making a piss poor case here.

I would question several things about that video. Most importantly being how the 'cheat' was implemented. If you changed an objects.ddb file; hence the radius of effective sound, then yes; it is a cheat. However, if you simply changed the .wav file, I'll continue to tell you to go fuck yourself (and rightly so). If that is the case, then your quam is with the discernability of a sound in relation to other sounds. Considering the stealth tank and the medium tank in that video have sounds that play at similar frequencies they are more difficult, but not impossible to discern. Considering some players have totally different sounds (my medium tank isn't the default engine sound either), then even if I chose to have a stock stealth tank sound I would be able to discern it extremely easily over my own engine sound. If the tank is within the radius the game sets that you can hear the sound, then you should never be judged for legitimately being allowed to call shenanigans if you so happen to hear a stealth vehicle.

All in all, at the end of the day I don't care if someone else is using a more discernable stealth tank sound; mostly because it isn't cheating, but also because a player with any talent would be able to discern a stealth tank anyway. If a player has editted their objects.ddb file, then they are quite literally cheating and ought be banned without respite. They can easily be found out by having renguard check the objects.ddb file for consistency (which I believe it already does) and banning those who aren't.


So basically you're saying that the file extension and not the effects determine if it's a cheat? Sorry, but that's the most retarded shit I've heard in the course of this thread.


lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251580 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Actually, the game doesn't care what file you use. The sound is always going to be enclosed in the same radius of effective hearing. All of this seems to be leading up to you being unable to discern even a stealth tank sound over other sounds in the game despite all your small twinging over how great you are at this game. Which roughly translates into you sucking balls according to Webster's. Looks like you truly do not have any idea how this game operates. For the third time, thank God you don't have any say on the final outcome of this.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251586 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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So now you're saying that this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wmFTGTH-k0 isn't a cheat? Wow...good to know that your opinion can be ignored from now on. Blazer has already assured me that this cheat will be blocked by the next Renguard and I think every honest player will support his decision especially after watching that video.

Oh and my 2v1 challenge is still active...in case you want to back up your arrogance.


lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251587 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Sorry kiddo, it's not a cheat if you can still hear the tank without the altered soundfont; which you can. Sad


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251589 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Keep telling yourself that, cheat supporter.

lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251591 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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???

If it isn't cheating, how can I be supporting cheaters? Remember pinko? We established this already!



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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251596 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Too bad that the BHS leaders decide what they consider cheating and not two desperate n00bs or that compulsive cheater SK...even skeptics such as Puddlesplasher have come to their senses after watching the video - you're just arguing out of arrogance.

lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251599 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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Actually, I'm arguing against yours. Shouldn't be surprised you thought otherwise though.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251601 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JPNOD is currently offline  JPNOD
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Pfft.. that stuff is really gay I don't see how anyone can play with that. ( it totally leaves out the point of Nod having stealth technolegy )All that stuff should be blocked by default, same goes for the bright sniper skins really/other crap out there..

And leagues should be run in pure mode imo.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251610 is a reply to message #251599] Sun, 25 March 2007 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 11:02

Actually, I'm arguing against yours. Shouldn't be surprised you thought otherwise though.


Has it ever dawned upon you that there's a reason why only 2 other people are supporting your cause and one of them is a convicted cheater?


lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251611 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Javaxcx
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I imagine not too many players give two shits about this topic enough to care either way. You, on one hand are suggesting (from a opinionated standpoint mind you) that we force players to conform to what you believe is fair. I'm telling you that your little crusade is against a triviality that does nothing for people like me and my clanmates other then cause us to change our games when we shouldn't have to just to suit your twisted sense of 'right' gameplay.

I fail to understand why you don't simply play on pure servers, which, I would remind you would have this inherently blocked on the grounds that it isn't pure to have custom sound files. Otherwise, kindly fuck off and leave the people to do what they want with their game. Why don't you take heed and make your own version of renguard for clanwars subpar servers? That way you can just go back to your hovel and we never have to see you again Smile



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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251612 is a reply to message #251548] Sun, 25 March 2007 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sniper_De7 wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 07:14

Deathgod wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 03:07


Why isn't clanwars run in puremode??

because renguard obviously doesn't work for everyone.
because puremode blocks things that isn't really advantageous (reticle, etc.)



So you have people playing clanwars that don't use renguard because it doesn't work for them? How do you vouch for them? Sounds like a hole in the dam waiting to bust.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251613 is a reply to message #251579] Sun, 25 March 2007 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deathgod is currently offline  Deathgod
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JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 11:23


So basically you're saying that the file extension and not the effects determine if it's a cheat? Sorry, but that's the most retarded shit I've heard in the course of this thread.


You must be forgetting all the shit you've posted.

He's right, though... if you don't change objects.ddb the effective radius of the sound won't change at all. You'll just instantly hear it once you're within the radius instead of hearing it slowly build as the tank approaches. You can hear the default stealth tank engine and also spot them from a large distance if you've got good eyes as it is.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251616 is a reply to message #251613] Sun, 25 March 2007 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Deathgod wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 20:13

JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 11:23


So basically you're saying that the file extension and not the effects determine if it's a cheat? Sorry, but that's the most retarded shit I've heard in the course of this thread.


You must be forgetting all the shit you've posted.

He's right, though... if you don't change objects.ddb the effective radius of the sound won't change at all. You'll just instantly hear it once you're within the radius instead of hearing it slowly build as the tank approaches. You can hear the default stealth tank engine and also spot them from a large distance if you've got good eyes as it is.

Can you watch the freaking video that was posted before continuing to spit your crap?

If that video doesn't show that some stank sound replacements are a cheat, then I donno what u need.

I proposed before that it should be up to the serevr owners to decide which files can be used but apparantly this is harder technically. hence blocking all stank sound replacements seems the best option to me as well. It's not perfect but it's way better option than to let people continue to cheat with these retarded sound replacements.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251621 is a reply to message #251616] Sun, 25 March 2007 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deathgod is currently offline  Deathgod
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I did watch the video and it supports my point because as I have been stating: it doesn't change the distance you can hear the sound at, just the intensity. You could crank up the regular stealth tank engine sound 10x and hear it just the same, or change any number of other sounds that fade with distance to minimize the fade effect. You can hear the tank from about the same distance you can see it at, so I can't really imagine this 'cheat' being of help to many people. Calling it as such is a tenuous statement at best, and including it in puremode is a sensible solution to the problem since it would be a per-server option, not a forced option on the entire Renguard-using populace.

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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251623 is a reply to message #251616] Sun, 25 March 2007 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Goztow wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 12:57

Deathgod wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 20:13

JohnDoe wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 11:23


So basically you're saying that the file extension and not the effects determine if it's a cheat? Sorry, but that's the most retarded shit I've heard in the course of this thread.


You must be forgetting all the shit you've posted.

He's right, though... if you don't change objects.ddb the effective radius of the sound won't change at all. You'll just instantly hear it once you're within the radius instead of hearing it slowly build as the tank approaches. You can hear the default stealth tank engine and also spot them from a large distance if you've got good eyes as it is.

Can you watch the freaking video that was posted before continuing to spit your crap?

If that video doesn't show that some stank sound replacements are a cheat, then I donno what u need.

I proposed before that it should be up to the serevr owners to decide which files can be used but apparantly this is harder technically. hence blocking all stank sound replacements seems the best option to me as well. It's not perfect but it's way better option than to let people continue to cheat with these retarded sound replacements.


Exactly, let those two idiots ignore the painfully obvious, it's like arguing against a wall...a particularly ignorant one. All that really matters is that Blazer considers them a cheat...they can cry and slit their wrists all they want.


lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251635 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I hate to flog a dead horse, but you can hear the stealth tank without the underpants gnomes helping you out in that video. You'd be surprised just how much MORE you'd be able to hear it when you're not idling in a medium tank. Sorry kid, still not a cheat.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251639 is a reply to message #249251] Sun, 25 March 2007 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
=HT=T-Bird is currently offline  =HT=T-Bird
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All I have to say about this is:
1) the only sound or skin I use is the FPS Doug "Boink" sound
2) I have no problem hearing stealth tanks at close range
3) this would be a waste of the RenGuard team's time to chase around while bigger, badder cheats still, sadly, go undetected in many places
4) This thread needs to be locked. END OF DISCUSSION!


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #251682 is a reply to message #249251] Mon, 26 March 2007 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnDoe is currently offline  JohnDoe
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Blazer said blocking those cheat sounds is no problem at all, so that's a moot point.
This isn't about short ranges, this is about medium ranges. The video clearly shows that it's virtually impossible to make out a stank while simply sitting in a medtank...you don't even have to add shots and explosions...with the augmented sound even those wouldn't let you ignore the stank.


lol
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #252066 is a reply to message #251611] Wed, 28 March 2007 09:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 25 March 2007 11:31

I imagine not too many players give two shits about this topic enough to care either way.

Nine out of ten players in my community, probably more in fact, are perfectly aware what an extremely palpable advantage a custom stank sound gives you in a top-level clanmatch... but then, the official answer to the question was given on page two.

edit: after spending 30 seconds checking, I am in fact wrong: it was 45 out of 46.


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Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #252636 is a reply to message #249251] Mon, 02 April 2007 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Homey is currently offline  Homey
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Anything that gives you a distinct advantage, regardless of what type of file it is is cheating. The only question is what qualifies as an advantage and that's all a matter of opinion. That sound file is a huge advantage from the looks of the video and gives the player using it an unfair advantage. To me that's cheating, judging by a file type is just silly.

Homey
Re: Renguard vs sound files + advantage skins [message #252644 is a reply to message #249251] Mon, 02 April 2007 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
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take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfEJblflVZE


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