Home » Archived Forums » RenGuard Client » RenGuard Update!
| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241199 is a reply to message #240999] |
Thu, 25 January 2007 13:27   |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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We could use a couple Vista or Windows 64-bit users. Please PM me.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241276 is a reply to message #241178] |
Thu, 25 January 2007 18:17 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| luv2pb wrote on Thu, 25 January 2007 13:28 |
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 25 January 2007 09:34 |
so... soon we will get to download a program coded by a cheater that an exploiter creater is standing by waiting to RE..
can you just feel my excitement?
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You are a moron. If you aren't going to read then go away. If you don't want to use RG then don't.
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Moron, eh? You know.. this is actually your fault for not specifying in the community rules that if you come clean via a forced confession you will be forgiven and everyone will stop talking about your transgressions..
Or, maybe one that says "If you serve us with a higher purpose, we'll overlook your cheating (shhhh, just don't tell anyone about it)"
How about this... apply it across the board. Anyone that has or does come to this forum and "apologize" for cheating, will be let back in and unbanned from the servers.
[Updated on: Thu, 25 January 2007 18:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241281 is a reply to message #240999] |
Thu, 25 January 2007 18:41 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
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Colonel |
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right, my mistake... since the most recent upcoming release was created by v00d00, my sincere concerns regarding the whole SK incident are completely without merit. Because, we all know he had nothing to do with anything other than this most recent upcoming release, and he also has nothing to do with any future iterations of anything to do with RG.
I apologize for my facetious response, and urge you to stop being disingenuous with yours.
The topic honestly does merit community discussion, whether you want it to or not.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241303 is a reply to message #240999] |
Thu, 25 January 2007 22:40 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (3 Stars)
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If if v00d00 was a "cheater", or let's say SK for example (apparently that's who you were thinking of), what does that have to do with the RenGuard update? Are you saying you don't trust it because you don't trust the programmer? I assume you know that most security experts were once hackers themselves.
I don't even know the whole story about SK's alleged cheating, but I do know that he is a smart guy that has vast knowledge of the inner workings of the renegade engine, and thus probably has his own development/test version of the game client where he can tinker around with most anything. BHS knew about all the possible cheats before they came out, because we have smart guys like SK and v00d00 who are very good at coding and understand how the game works, so believe me, its a good thing that they are on "our side". SK may have done the wrong thing if he let someone see him testing stuff in a public server, but not everyone is perfect and I prefer to think that the good he does far outweighs any bad judgement calls he made in the past.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that nearly any member of BHS is capable of creating and using cheats, but its that knowledge that is used to stop cheats, similar to how anti-virus coders probably have the ability to write a devestating virus. Just because one has the ability to do something bad with knowledge doesn't mean that by default that is what happens.
Either way, replying to a happy announcement about the RenGuard update with gloom and bitterness is just, heh well...I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but it would have made more sense to make a seperate topic saying that you dislike SK, than to bash the update because you thought he worked on it.
[Updated on: Thu, 25 January 2007 22:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241347 is a reply to message #241303] |
Fri, 26 January 2007 07:21 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
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| Blazer wrote on Thu, 25 January 2007 23:40 |
If if v00d00 was a "cheater", or let's say SK for example (apparently that's who you were thinking of), what does that have to do with the RenGuard update? Are you saying you don't trust it because you don't trust the programmer? I assume you know that most security experts were once hackers themselves.
I don't even know the whole story about SK's alleged cheating, but I do know that he is a smart guy that has vast knowledge of the inner workings of the renegade engine, and thus probably has his own development/test version of the game client where he can tinker around with most anything. BHS knew about all the possible cheats before they came out, because we have smart guys like SK and v00d00 who are very good at coding and understand how the game works, so believe me, its a good thing that they are on "our side". SK may have done the wrong thing if he let someone see him testing stuff in a public server, but not everyone is perfect and I prefer to think that the good he does far outweighs any bad judgement calls he made in the past.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that nearly any member of BHS is capable of creating and using cheats, but its that knowledge that is used to stop cheats, similar to how anti-virus coders probably have the ability to write a devestating virus. Just because one has the ability to do something bad with knowledge doesn't mean that by default that is what happens.
Either way, replying to a happy announcement about the RenGuard update with gloom and bitterness is just, heh well...I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but it would have made more sense to make a seperate topic saying that you dislike SK, than to bash the update because you thought he worked on it.
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So from what your'e saying Sir_Kane has NOT coded anything related to RenGuard in the most current release or in any future release?
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241350 is a reply to message #241303] |
Fri, 26 January 2007 07:59 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
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Colonel |
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| Blazer wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 00:40 |
Just because one has the ability to do something bad with knowledge doesn't mean that by default that is what happens.
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You're joking, right? There was a really long post he started where he admited he cheated, apologized, and promised not to do it again.. Is that what you mean by "default"? This is what pisses me off... it's not that someone with the knowledge of cheating or hacking is helping you with the application, and I think you know that.. which is why I asked you to stop being disingenuous in your remarks. It is the FACT that THE person you rely on to create this application actually DID cheat in open, public servers.. and the ALLEGATION that the server owner knew about it, slapped his hand and hoped he wouldn't do it again.
This isn't about a smart guy who knows how to cheat working with you to make sure that you create a program to stop people. It's about that same person using his knowledge to actually cheat, and hope that he could continue to get away with it. And it's about an organization that we are all supposed to trust and love for keeping the game cheat free, covering it all up to save face.
I don't believe that anything else produced will have a "trojan" in it, I won't refuse to install it because I'm "scared" of what it might contain. I just can't seem to understand why I would trust that this application would do anything other than the current one.. keep n00bs from cheating until they find the new, real cheats hidden online. Dont' you think we'll always be wondering what SK and his friends have come up with this time that none of us have thought about?
| Blazer wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 00:40 |
Either way, replying to a happy announcement about the RenGuard update with gloom and bitterness is just, heh well...I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but it would have made more sense to make a seperate topic saying that you dislike SK, than to bash the update because you thought he worked on it.
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I believe that actually was tried, and it was tried in the appropriate forums for that kind of discussion. Sadly, they too were removed, and the conversation was quietly killed. I don't dislike SK. Actually, at this point, I dislike BHS more for the way they are handling this whole situation, and for basically destroying any faith I may have in their future products peformance.
You know me Blazer.. You've known me for a long time, and I have never done anything other than stand behind you both, and help to defend you against baseless accusation from disgruntled idiots. We have always had the same thoughts in regards to how people should be treated and situations handled in our communities. We part ways here, I guess... I'm not here to just "expose you".. I'm here because I would love to be able to trust RenGuard for another 4 years, and trust that it honestly is doing what it claims to be doing. We've banned thousands of players off our servers for cheating, and shunned them from the game with no possible recourse except to buy another serial and change their IP/Identity... SK isn't "special", and he shouldn't be given the "special" treatment you are, simply because he is the backbone of what you are creating.. That makes your creation worthless, in my opinion. To me, this wasn't a "happy announcement" about a renguard update..
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241376 is a reply to message #241355] |
Fri, 26 January 2007 11:27 |
0x90
Messages: 142
Registered: September 2006
Location: Germany
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| warranto wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 16:37 |
I don't know... if a President of the United States can get special treatment just because of all the good that he did, why not someone like SK?
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[ offtopic]
silentkane for president (or bundeskanzler)!11
[/offtopic]
[Updated on: Fri, 26 January 2007 11:27] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241377 is a reply to message #241350] |
Fri, 26 January 2007 11:30 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (3 Stars)
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| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
You're joking, right? There was a really long post he started where he admited he cheated, apologized, and promised not to do it again.
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So you are just unforgiving and demand that everyone be perfect?
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
It is the FACT that THE person you rely on to create this application actually DID cheat in open, public servers.. and the ALLEGATION that the server owner knew about it, slapped his hand and hoped he wouldn't do it again.
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Yes, SK fucked up. To be honest our team is too small to "fire" someone just because they made a mistake. This doesn't mean he or anyone else has total immunity to do whatever and automatically be forgiven, but SK does provide valuable services to our team, and he made a mistake and was forgiven. If we had a team of a dozen programmers would we have been more harsh with him? To be honest probably not, because SK is more than just a team member, we have worked with him for years and he is also a friend, and when your friend makes a mistake you might be dissappointed in them and be angry, but you don't just turn your back on them, especially if they are sorry for what they did.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
This isn't about a smart guy who knows how to cheat working with you to make sure that you create a program to stop people. It's about that same person using his knowledge to actually cheat, and hope that he could continue to get away with it.
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I do not believe SK created cheats for the sole purpose of cheating. He created cheats because he can do *anything* with the game, and was just having some fun with his dev version of the game client (Yes the fun was the wrong kind of fun). If he was truly trying to cheat I doubt he would have been doing crazy things like spawning chickens in servers, and he would be near the top of the ladder instead of the bottom.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
And it's about an organization that we are all supposed to trust and love for keeping the game cheat free, covering it all up to save face.
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We do not expect trust or love (I know that these days either one is too much to expect no matter what you do or give someone). We just want folks who play Renegade to have a fair and fun game, and we spend hundreds of dollars per month of our own money and time towards that end. I know that as a former server owner, you know what its like to give to a community and just want them to have fun.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
I don't believe that anything else produced will have a "trojan" in it, I won't refuse to install it because I'm "scared" of what it might contain. I just can't seem to understand why I would trust that this application would do anything other than the current one..
keep n00bs from cheating until they find the new, real cheats hidden online. Dont' you think we'll always be wondering what SK and his friends have come up with this time that none of us have thought about?
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You make a valid point, but anti-cheat software is always a cat and mouse game. The RG update will stop ALL of current cheats. I have no doubt that at some point, another bypass will appear on the scene, but that is just the nature of this, and why we specifically designed the RenGuard system to allow easy auto-updates.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
Actually, at this point, I dislike BHS more for the way they are handling this whole situation, and for basically destroying any faith I may have in their future products peformance.
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Again, I fail to see the connection between the personal actions of a team member and the performance of a project that they wrote some lines of code for. Yeah I guess it's easy to say "SK cheated so he can't be trusted therefore anything he touches is tainted", but I refuse to believe you are that shallow.
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
You know me Blazer.. You've known me for a long time, and I have never done anything other than stand behind you both, and help to defend you against baseless accusation from disgruntled idiots. We have always had the same thoughts in regards to how people should be treated and situations handled in our communities. We part ways here, I guess... I'm not here to just "expose you".. I'm here because I would love to be able to trust RenGuard for another 4 years, and trust that it honestly is doing what it claims to be doing. We've banned thousands of players off our servers for cheating, and shunned them from the game with no possible recourse except to buy another serial and change their IP/Identity... SK isn't "special", and he shouldn't be given the "special" treatment you are, simply because he is the backbone of what you are creating..
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As I explained above...SK is not just some n00b to be banned away because we don't give a shit about him. Most of those players we (all server owners) have banned from our games were banned because we knew they could care less about our server or gameplay, and their sole intent was to cause misery, so to hell with them. Do you really think SK should be treated the same as those destructive anarchists? I'm not sure what special treatment you think he is getting. He has been forbidden from testing with his dev client in public servers, and he got more than an earful from Crimson for what he did. He was not "fired" from BHS because he admitted his mistakes and apologized. As I said he and the rest of us do not have total immunity, if he had done something truly bad with no remorse he certainly would have been treated harshly and not forgiven, but I guess what you are still failing to see is that in his mind he was doing no harm and was just testing his toys. Again, yes what he did and the way he did it was wrong, we know that, and he knows it, and he has said he is sorry. If you cannot forgive him for making a mistake that's your choice, but it makes no logical sense to transfer your distrust of him to the RG product just because he is on the team that created it, otherwise you might as well distrust MS Windows just because some of the developers have police records 
| msgtpain wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 09:59 |
That makes your creation worthless, in my opinion. To me, this wasn't a "happy announcement" about a renguard update..
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RenGuard was created to stop cheating, and that's what it will continue to do. We may not be able to get fixes and updates out within 24 hours like anti-virus companies, but we are just volunteers doing this because we want to keep the game alive. A lot of work and money went into the past RenGuard versions, and this update is no different. I'd hardly call it worthless, but try to keep in mind you are the primary "demographic" (people who love the game and play it seriously and often) that we are trying to serve.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241452 is a reply to message #240999] |
Fri, 26 January 2007 19:57 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Alrighty, Ive been reading quite a few things on cw.cc forums and here about various stories, and heres what I think:
1)people shouldn't have put so much pressue on Dead6re to leave, because the majority of those people are the same people who bitch about BHS not getting stuff done.
2)why the fuck is BHS even putting up with this? They have no obligation to fill any shoes, and without them, ren would prob be dead by now so everyone plz stfu.
3)SK did have an incident, and now I hear jonwil helped with 0x90's bypass? Weird. Anyway, heres v00d00:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3579/asdf6qf.jpg
The thing is tho, in all 3 cases (including Dead6re), which would you rather have? 3 potential cheaters (which are all fine now, no problems) who get stuff done for this community, or have them kicked, RG get nowhere and fast, and have 75% of players cheating basically meaning the end?
Think about it. BHS ftw 
My: Videos/Website/Forums
[Updated on: Fri, 26 January 2007 19:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241502 is a reply to message #241455] |
Sat, 27 January 2007 05:44 |
=HT=T-Bird
Messages: 712
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Renx wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 21:34 |
One programmer congratulating another programmer on creating a program that does what's it's supposed to do, and does it good. Set aside what the program actually does for a moment and that all sounds fairly normal to me. Not to mention that v00d00 posted that after he had already blocked it from working in a newer RG version.
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I'd be saying the same thing about 0x90's coding skills personally...*cheat name removed* does a remarkable job of running stably for an application of that level of low-level complexity
HTT-Bird (IRC)
HTTBird (WOL)
Proud HazTeam Lieutenant.
BlackIntel Coder & Moderator.
If you have trouble running BIATCH on your FDS, have some questions about a BIATCH message or log entry, or think that BIATCH spit out a false positive, PLEASE contact the BlackIntel coding team and avoid wasting the time of others.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241548 is a reply to message #240999] |
Sat, 27 January 2007 12:26 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488
Registered: February 2004
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General (1 Star)
Not everything is as it appears
Untouchable |
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msgtpain ... I'm sure since you have this all figured out Crimson will ban sk and you can take over for him and get the back end of the new RG done. Then everyone will be happy! Sound good? As for your twist to make this my fault, well, that is just retarded.
You can discuss it all you want but it isn't going to matter. The situation has been delt with on the n00bstories and the BHS ands and has been closed. If you don't want to use RG then don't, it is an OPTIONAL part of a GAME.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241618 is a reply to message #241199] |
Sat, 27 January 2007 17:51 |
Tunaman
Messages: 1190
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 2
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General (1 Star) |
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| Crimson wrote on Thu, 25 January 2007 15:27 |
We could use a couple Vista or Windows 64-bit users. Please PM me.
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I use a 64-bit processor with Windows XP professional but I don't know how to tell if I am using a 64-bit version of windows.. how do I tell?
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241739 is a reply to message #241347] |
Sun, 28 January 2007 05:35 |
Caveman
Messages: 2476
Registered: July 2005
Location: Wales, UK
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Caveman wrote on Fri, 26 January 2007 08:21 |
| Blazer wrote on Thu, 25 January 2007 23:40 |
If if v00d00 was a "cheater", or let's say SK for example (apparently that's who you were thinking of), what does that have to do with the RenGuard update? Are you saying you don't trust it because you don't trust the programmer? I assume you know that most security experts were once hackers themselves.
I don't even know the whole story about SK's alleged cheating, but I do know that he is a smart guy that has vast knowledge of the inner workings of the renegade engine, and thus probably has his own development/test version of the game client where he can tinker around with most anything. BHS knew about all the possible cheats before they came out, because we have smart guys like SK and v00d00 who are very good at coding and understand how the game works, so believe me, its a good thing that they are on "our side". SK may have done the wrong thing if he let someone see him testing stuff in a public server, but not everyone is perfect and I prefer to think that the good he does far outweighs any bad judgement calls he made in the past.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that nearly any member of BHS is capable of creating and using cheats, but its that knowledge that is used to stop cheats, similar to how anti-virus coders probably have the ability to write a devestating virus. Just because one has the ability to do something bad with knowledge doesn't mean that by default that is what happens.
Either way, replying to a happy announcement about the RenGuard update with gloom and bitterness is just, heh well...I guess you are entitled to your opinion, but it would have made more sense to make a seperate topic saying that you dislike SK, than to bash the update because you thought he worked on it.
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So from what your'e saying Sir_Kane has NOT coded anything related to RenGuard in the most current release or in any future release?
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...
| CarrierII wrote |
BLUEHTHEN YOU AR NOT JUST A BIG CHEATAS AND YOU THE BIG HEAD JUST YOU USE FLY H4X FUCK YOU BIG CHEATAS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD YOU WANT I WRAUGHT THIS YOUR CHEATZ IS BAD HEY IS 1 YEAR YOUR PROMESS A FLY HAX IN MULTIPLAYER AND IS DONT JUST TROOPRM02 I TELL IT ALL WHO REPLYER IN THIS FORUM YOU CHEATZ
Please don't make me type something like that again, not using puntuation is annoying.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #241753 is a reply to message #241739] |
Sun, 28 January 2007 07:30 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488
Registered: February 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Not everything is as it appears
Untouchable |
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He had nothing to do with the update. However has a lot to do with 1.04 wich follows the update (in theory but they said that after the last "hold over" as well).
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #242171 is a reply to message #240999] |
Tue, 30 January 2007 00:39 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I'll wait and see how this turns out, but I still feel the best way to combat cheats is server-side.
I understand that client-side has its advantages, but it puts the protection within the reach of people who can then play with it. This update will be bypassed, and I have no doubt 1.04 will be bypassed.
What this buys is a window in which RG users will not be able to cheat, the quality of the updates will define the window. It could take anything from hours to days for a bypass to come out.
My main concern is that once this bypass comes out, people will still think RG is bullet proof. (That's my biggest issue with it, people believe it's 100%, heck, some still do!) It took me quite a while to convince a few server owners/admins that RG is useless, I don't feel any desire to go through that again.
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| Re: RenGuard Update! [message #242179 is a reply to message #240999] |
Tue, 30 January 2007 01:05 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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server side = best but will never be able to block/catch all cheats - period.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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