Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Sour Egg Releases NoFear
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239852 is a reply to message #239851] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 11:10   |
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Zion
Messages: 2722
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 1
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General (2 Stars) |
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| StealthEye wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 18:02 |
...than having to alt tab to irc and make renegade crash when going back ...
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Many people nowadays (especially popular server owners) will have a dual monitor configuration. So that'll save time and crash at 'alt-tab'bing out.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 11:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239855 is a reply to message #239798] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 11:14 |
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Renx
Messages: 2321
Registered: April 2003
Location: Canada
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General (2 Stars)
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| trooprm02 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 11:17 |
I see this NoFear thing as a HUGE cheat. Why would you have made/use this, let alone release it? It sure doesnt help your story. ALthought, i do really see you go, ALOT will get done slower (including rg1.04). But its funny, most of the people who keep complainging they want rg 1.04 to be released sooner, want you out. This is going against their own logic, and anyway even if you did cheat, i think you saw the error of your ways, and I'd rather have you cheat (but still working on rg 1.04) than have ALOT more cheaters because of the slow down of rg 1.04....
BUT I also think more info should be released about the supposide SK and v00d00 thing 
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1) Dead6re has absolutely nothing to do with BHS or RenGuard
2) What on earth is this "v00d00 thing?" Last time I checked, v00d00 has just come back after months of inactivity to work on something that allows you to reconstruct buildings server-side. Is that a cheat now too? Everything else seems to be these days.
~Canucck
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 11:16] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239859 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 11:37 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (3 Stars)
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1. Why do you think the NoFear dll is a cheat? From what I have seen (havn't actually tried it), it provides enhanced kill messages, and team vehicle information...I don't see how any of that is a cheat??
2. v00d00 never left BHS, like the rest of us, he has a life and responsibilities that take up his time. It's true that he was absent for awhile, but it's because he was extremely busy, not because he "left" or "quit".
3. v00d00 has done some work on a mod that would enable server owners to have an option for re-purchasing a building. The idea being that for example, if the entire team donated all of their money, a building could be "turned back on". This would be a server-side mode and certainly not a cheat.
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239884 is a reply to message #239877] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 13:25 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 |
Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game?
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I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239886 is a reply to message #239884] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 13:31 |
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 |
| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 |
Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game?
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I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly.
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The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else.
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239896 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 13:58 |
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havoc9826
Messages: 562
Registered: April 2006
Location: California, USA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 |
| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 |
Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game?
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I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly.
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| Renx wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:47 |
That doesn't mean information is a cheat... I have my Renegade running full detail, that mean I can see SBH flicker when they jump and I can see them kick up dirt when they run. Someone with low detail cannot see this, and therefore I have an advantage over them. Am I cheating?
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Those people may be unfortunate, but your advantage came shipped with the game straight from EA. You may have a financial and technological advantage, but that doesn't make it your fault that you have a better machine than they do, so you shouldn't be punished for it.
| AmunRa wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:31 |
The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else.
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Let me present an example scenario:
I doubt regular users (if allowed to do so) will be constantly alt-tabbing between IRC and Renegade (note that Windowed mode only allows someone to see the last few lines of IRC output unless they move the window, which is analogous to alt-tabbing) to see if there are any SBH units left after GDI destroys the HON. Seeing a SBH unit make a kill after the HON is destroyed will allow GDI to know that there still is/are a/some stealth unit(s), whereas they may not have had such knowledge otherwise (e.g. if a Nod player had just purchased the SBH in the Power Plant when the HON died). Now, with this knowledge, GDI will actively try to prevent this/these unit(s) from entering their base, and will be more conservative about base defense than they would have if they had assumed there were probably no remaining SBH units.
I'm sure many other scenarios exist in which there could be an unfair advantage gained from this. However, as I stated before, my greatest concern is the constant accusations that we'll get from ignorant players who 1. don't understand that the weapons in the kill messages refer to those the person is currently holding, rather than what they were killed with, and 2. have the naïveté to believe that anyone who killed them and is not using RenGuard must be cheating, and/or that noone who uses RenGuard could possibly be cheating (which is already an issue, but combine this with #1 and it gets even worse). Unless you plan to have all C4 and beacon detonations (with their corresponding owners) displayed ingame, I predict that if people who are too dumb to understand what this is get their hands on it (through direct download or a future scripts.dll/core patch release), the problems this may create would outweigh the benefits (at least until someone invents an ingame !shun command).
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239900 is a reply to message #239897] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 14:21 |
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havoc9826
Messages: 562
Registered: April 2006
Location: California, USA
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| Caveman wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 13:11 |
I can see where you're going with this but then again why would a average joe have this? If someone wants to download this then they must have SOME knowledge of the weapon presents and whatnot. As for the !shun command. That already exists.
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Unless it comes with a future core patch, in which case a great many players will have it, regardless of whether or not they're smart enough to understand it. Also, who has a !shun command that works for ingame players and not just people in IRC?
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 14:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239919 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 15:13 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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If you want an exemple: the mere fac u know an engee killed your teammate which was in the base and not a hotwire is enough to decide not to go after it.
My problem is not that people know this info, the problem is some know it and some don't, making it an unfair advantage.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239939 is a reply to message #239896] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 16:00 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 14:58 |
| Goztow wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 15:25 |
| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:05 |
Does the information benefit the player that has it to a point that gives them an easier time playing the game?
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I do believe that it can, just like advantage skins/sounds, clearscope and radar hack can. You can benefit from all information you get more as long as you use it correctly.
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| Renx wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:47 |
That doesn't mean information is a cheat... I have my Renegade running full detail, that mean I can see SBH flicker when they jump and I can see them kick up dirt when they run. Someone with low detail cannot see this, and therefore I have an advantage over them. Am I cheating?
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Those people may be unfortunate, but your advantage came shipped with the game straight from EA. You may have a financial and technological advantage, but that doesn't make it your fault that you have a better machine than they do, so you shouldn't be punished for it.
| AmunRa wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 12:31 |
The information provided by this dll gives the user no advantage over anyone else, atleast from what I can see. Its really not that different from looking in irc, even a "public" channel. I see no way that this could be used to give a regular user advantage over anyone else.
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Let me present an example scenario:
I doubt regular users (if allowed to do so) will be constantly alt-tabbing between IRC and Renegade (note that Windowed mode only allows someone to see the last few lines of IRC output unless they move the window, which is analogous to alt-tabbing) to see if there are any SBH units left after GDI destroys the HON. Seeing a SBH unit make a kill after the HON is destroyed will allow GDI to know that there still is/are a/some stealth unit(s), whereas they may not have had such knowledge otherwise (e.g. if a Nod player had just purchased the SBH in the Power Plant when the HON died). Now, with this knowledge, GDI will actively try to prevent this/these unit(s) from entering their base, and will be more conservative about base defense than they would have if they had assumed there were probably no remaining SBH units.
I'm sure many other scenarios exist in which there could be an unfair advantage gained from this. However, as I stated before, my greatest concern is the constant accusations that we'll get from ignorant players who 1. don't understand that the weapons in the kill messages refer to those the person is currently holding, rather than what they were killed with, and 2. have the naïveté to believe that anyone who killed them and is not using RenGuard must be cheating, and/or that noone who uses RenGuard could possibly be cheating (which is already an issue, but combine this with #1 and it gets even worse). Unless you plan to have all C4 and beacon detonations (with their corresponding owners) displayed ingame, I predict that if people who are too dumb to understand what this is get their hands on it (through direct download or a future scripts.dll/core patch release), the problems this may create would outweigh the benefits (at least until someone invents an ingame !shun command).
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Tack on the fact that if you knew there were no sbhs or not that you could also safely repair in the field or not, whereas the average person doesn't know this.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239943 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 16:12 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Why should they be able to figure that out? Just because someone hasn't died or killed in a while doesn't mean they're sbhs. My point is that if it were me, and i actually wanted to download this, i would use this as obvious assurance if there is an sbh or not. You can guess all you like and you may be right in "assuming" but if you see sbh kills whatever, then you KNOW there is an sbh. Quite different to just assuming there might be.
Anyways, like I said, I would use it to my advantage that way, and that's what could make it unfair. Tantamount to cheating, I don't really know - I guess it depends on what you would count as cheating.
edit: oh and just a question, is the ta-Kane or however it's capitalized the same guy as who was in [NE]?
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 16:15] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239948 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 16:25 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
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Colonel |
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and with this you won't need that supposed smart person. Besides, I don't remember a single time where the HON was down and someone said that there was an sbh when there was one. Like I said, with this you don't *need* to have someone say there was an sbh that whoever got killed by him. That is an advantage, you can't discount that it is. Now the question is that if it's an advantage does that mean that only everybody should get it or no one, and that's not a question I can certainly answer. To be fair, it would be either no one or everyone, and since not everyone can... that would imply that it can only be fair if no one did.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Sour Egg Releases NoFear [message #239971 is a reply to message #239592] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 17:12 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (3 Stars)
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So you guys are saying that knowing what someones current character is, and what weapon they killed you with, is a cheat? As if 99% of the time you don't outright see them kill you.
* In many servers, the enhanced kill messages not only show in IRC, but are broadcast via host messages...I guess they are forcing "cheats" onto their players?
* I play with dual monitors, and can see IRC while I play...I guess I'm using the dual monitor cheat, since I can see the kill messages? And no, I don't spy on team chat, which is displayed in a seperate admin-only channel.
* I often check the IRC kill messages to make sure someone else is not cheating. Like I'm driving my stank and suddenly it pops although nobody is around, I'm like WTF OMG HAX...then I check IRC and see that it was timed c4 that I obviously didn't see get tossed on me 
* As mentioned, ALWAYS assume that SBH are about, even if the hand is destroyed, as that is the best time for SBH to be sneaky and own careless players. Seeing that an SBH killed you in a kill message shouldn't be considered a cheat, as you should always assume they are about.
* I've often been sniped out of the blue and the killer will say in F2 chat "lol sbh sniper ownz u"...I guess he forced me to use the "know what killed you cheat"?
Seriously...you guys need to relax, lol.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 17:13] Report message to a moderator |
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), however I have not used that information a lot in finding and stopping cheaters.
