Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Who's the biggest retard on Renforums?
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239774 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 07:36   |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
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General (1 Star) |
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JohnDoe:
Unfortunately that analogy doesn't work. No one says that you MUST report all crimes (no one was questioned by a figure of authority here). Even if Crimson knew about it, it was not done in the name of BHS, therefor there is no connection that can be made. No court would deal a punishment against the business for the action of an individual done in his private time, even if that business knew about it. There was no association of the business with the crime, therefor the business can not be blamed for the crime.
No matter how you wish otherwise, all you have to rely on is your petty indulgence against them in trying to find whatever you can to make them look bad.
As for this lawyer thing, where do you get the idea that I'm going to be defending people?
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Please point out where in my analogy I'm suggesting that the owner committed a crime by not reporting the crime and should be punished by law? Good job finding flaws that never existent until you made them up. All I said is that I sure as hell wouldn't be buying there.
You know I'm right, so stop embarrassing yourself further by carrying on this ridiculous discussion.
Lawyer: I figured you're ambitious, guess I was wrong.
lol
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239803 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 08:38 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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You're saying that the business should be punished because of the actions of one of its employees. I'm simply pointing out how it does not work that way. If a business were to be punished for the actions of one of its employees, it would have... (refer to my previous post).
You don't have to defend people to be ambitious.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 08:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239814 is a reply to message #239803] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 09:13 |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
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General (1 Star) |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 08:38 |
You're saying that the business should be punished because of the actions of one of its employees. I'm simply pointing out how it does not work that way. If a business were to be punished for the actions of one of its employees, it would have... (refer to my previous post).
You don't have to defend people to be ambitious.
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Please quote where I say so. I'm talking about losing the trust of the people, not legal actions.
lol
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239825 is a reply to message #239757] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 09:53 |
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havoc9826
Messages: 562
Registered: April 2006
Location: California, USA
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Colonel |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 05:31 |
Unfortunately that analogy doesn't work. No one says that you MUST report all crimes (no one was questioned by a figure of authority here). Even if Crimson knew about it, it was not done in the name of BHS, therefor there is no connection that can be made. No court would deal a punishment against the business for the action of an individual done in his private time, even if that business knew about it. There was no association of the business with the crime, therefor the business can not be blamed for the crime.
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What are Accessory and Obstruction charges then?
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 09:58] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239885 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 13:29 |
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havoc9826
Messages: 562
Registered: April 2006
Location: California, USA
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Colonel |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 09:23 |
Acessory:
The act of helping someone commit a crime. Having knowledge of a crime does not constitute this.
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A person who learns of the crime after it is committed and helps the criminal to conceal it (my edit), or aids the criminal in escaping, or simply fails to report the crime, is known as an "accessory after the fact".
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Ah, I see now. I guess this is why people from different countries shouldn't argue the law. That aspect of accessory is not present in Canadian law. Nothing in Canadian law compels you to report a crime. That is particular to the United States.
Of course, if I were arguing American law, I'd probably not have the little Canadian flag beside my name.
Obstruction:
Basically its giving an authoritative body false information to prevent the investigation from finding the guilty person.
Too bad no authority figure had ever asked for assistance or information.
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Whoops, I guess I'm at fault for forgetting that Canada has different legal definitions than we do. Sorry about that. However, considering n00bstories and RenGuard are operated in the United States, I would assume that they are subject to the laws of the United States. Renegade itself is a product from the United States, and it conforms to its laws as well. Therefore, according to EA's EULA for Renegade:
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2. COPYRIGHT AND RESTRICTIONS. [...] You also may not copy, modify, adapt, translate, create derivative works of, publicly perform, publicly display, distribute, transmit, decompile, disassemble or otherwise reverse engineer or attempt to reverse engineer or derive source code from, all or any portion of the Product or anything incorporated therein, including any screen display, sound or accompanying documentation, or permit or encourage any third party to do so. [...] Further, if the Product contains a map or level editor, you may use the editor in accordance with the instructions in the accompanying documentation to create maps or levels for your personal use and enjoyment, and you may allow others to use such maps or levels for their personal use and enjoyment, but in no event may such maps or levels be exploited commercially in any manner, by you or any other person or entity. [...]
4. GAME SERVERS. [...] The only authorized method of accessing any server to use the Product is by using an unmodified copy of the Product as distributed by or for EA. You shall select and then use any such server all at your sole cost, expense and risk, including any communication costs, such as telephone charges and/or Internet access fees.
5. APPROPRIATE GAME PLAY; RESPONSIBILITY FOR GAME PLAY. You agree to not take any action or pass any communication, either in or through the Product, that interferes with another player’s ability to enjoy his or her play of the game or which is objectionable or inappropriate. [...]
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Technically, even though EA hasn't pursued any legal action against BHS, server owners, and mod makers for creating scripts.dll modifications/core patches/RenGuard/serverside mods/etc., or for creating/using cheats to ruin games, they could if they felt it was worth their time and expense, which I believe is not currently the case. EA could also formally endorse certain modifications and their use/incorporation, but I have yet to see any such endorsement. Also, should EA ever wish to have knowledge of the internals of RenGuard or any serverside modification that may include code intended for improper use (since their mere existence is a violation of the license agreement), or any information regarding derivative issues (e.g. hidden agendas, backdoors, exploits), if someone receives a court order requesting the production of documents, withholding such information would indeed constitute an Accessory and/or Obstruction charge. However, there is no telling whether it would ever come to that, and although possible, it's unlikely.
If my logic is flawed, please correct me. Also, feel free to split this discussion into a new thread if you wish, since we've gone a bit off-topic (although it's not like this thread can be improved anyway).
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 13:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239899 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 14:15 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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Technically, BHS could sue all the people who have ever used the RG bypass, too. All of you who installed the Core Patches are technically breaking the EULA, too. Whee!
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239903 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 14:24 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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Whoops, I guess I'm at fault for forgetting that Canada has different legal definitions than we do. Sorry about that.
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Meh, I'm just as much at fault for not realizing America had a different definition.
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Technically, even though EA hasn't pursued any legal action against BHS, server owners, and mod makers for creating scripts.dll modifications/core patches/RenGuard/serverside mods/etc., or for creating/using cheats to ruin games, they could if they felt it was worth their time and expense, which I believe is not currently the case. EA could also formally endorse certain modifications and their use/incorporation, but I have yet to see any such endorsement. Also, should EA ever wish to have knowledge of the internals of RenGuard or any serverside modification that may include code intended for improper use (since their mere existence is a violation of the license agreement), or any information regarding derivative issues (e.g. hidden agendas, backdoors, exploits), if someone receives a court order requesting the production of documents, withholding such information would indeed constitute an Accessory and/or Obstruction charge. However, there is no telling whether it would ever come to that, and although possible, it's unlikely.
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Oh, all that is true, and the logic is not flawed. There may be some exceptions to that rule, relating to the "greater benefit of enjoyment" (my own term, I forget the more appropriate one) but I don't want to get into semantics like that. The same with dealing with Internet-based jurisdictions/registered offices, etc. When no crime has actually been committed (I know that we are using criminal examples, but at the end of the argument they mean nothing other than to illuminate like-circumstances)
All I'm trying to argue is that despite what SK may have done, should BHS be punished for SK's actions as well?
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Are you going to quote yours truely to prove me wrong or do you acknowledge that I won an internet?
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I didn't forget about you, I just missed the post.
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Please quote where I say so. I'm talking about losing the trust of the people, not legal actions.
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I'm not specifying legal actions (that's just a similar circumstance that relates to this), I'm talking about blame, be it in the form of lost trust, legal actions, or any other sort of punitive act.
But to answer your question directly, you gave the "improved" analogy, and ended off by stating "I sure as hell wouldn't buy there."
You're putting the blame on the business for the actions of a person who happens to work there. I'm saying that there is no blame to be put on the business as the person did not do anything wrong in the name of the business. Did something wrong, yes... but not under the guise of the business he works for.
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239909 is a reply to message #238676] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 14:41 |
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JohnDoe
Messages: 1416
Registered: May 2006
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General (1 Star) |
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the fully aware owner keeping it a secret from the public and lying to the police when questioned
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This is why I wouldn't buy there...it's the actions of the owner, not the actions of the employee. Don't get it twisted.
lol
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239920 is a reply to message #239912] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 15:15 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| gamemodding wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 22:55 |
| Crimson wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 21:15 |
Technically, BHS could sue all the people who have ever used the RG bypass, too.
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on what grounds?
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Prolly the terms of use which they agree to when installing it.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #239928 is a reply to message #239757] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 15:38 |
Jimbo27
Messages: 148
Registered: February 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 08:31 |
| Jimbo27 wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 20:41 |
| JohnDoe wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 19:21 |
| warranto wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 23:02 |
| Dave Anderson wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 15:13 |
An employee's actions reflect upon the company.
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Only if they were done in the name of the company, or done by a person in a position of power within the company.
I don't know about you, but I'll continue going to the convenience store despite one of it's employees being caught stealing from someone else.
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Wrong analogy, try "...cought vandalizing someone's property and the fully aware owner keeping it a secret from the public and lying to the police when questioned." I sure as hell wouldn't buy there.
C'mon, we've gone down this road before...I know you see this as an opportunity to practice how to defend a clearly guilty client, but to people who don't know about your lawschool ambitions, you just seem like a mindless n00bstories drone.
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Well put. THAT explains why he goes so far out of his way (while looking like a complete retard) to try to prove us wrong.
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JohnDoe:
Unfortunately that analogy doesn't work. No one says that you MUST report all crimes (no one was questioned by a figure of authority here). Even if Crimson knew about it, it was not done in the name of BHS, therefor there is no connection that can be made. No court would deal a punishment against the business for the action of an individual done in his private time, even if that business knew about it. There was no association of the business with the crime, therefor the business can not be blamed for the crime.
No matter how you wish otherwise, all you have to rely on is your petty indulgence against them in trying to find whatever you can to make them look bad.
As for this lawyer thing, where do you get the idea that I'm going to be defending people?
Jimbo:
This coming from someone who financially supports n00bstories. "Crimson is bad, but I'll still give her money!"
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1. When did I say crimson is bad? for the most part I am in praise of what she has done.
2. When did I give her money?
Troopr: Don't even TALK to me about being a retard. You've been commonly accepted as the most PITIFUL person on these forum. Grow the fukk up nerd.
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #240011 is a reply to message #239930] |
Thu, 18 January 2007 21:28 |
Jimbo27
Messages: 148
Registered: February 2004
Location: Pittsburgh
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Recruit |
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| warranto wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 17:45 |
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When did I say crimson is bad? for the most part I am in praise of what she has done.
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My mistake, I thought your accusations about not being able to trust BHS because of what Crimson has said meant that you couldn't trust anyone who works with BHS (which includes, interestingly enough, Crimson)
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When did I give her money?
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Erm, premium account status at n00bstories.com costs money. Unless you were one of those lucky few who won the free lifetime premium status... then I retract that part of the statement.
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I never went off on any rants about not trusting BHS because of this. That was all of the other retards who actually care. I do, however, think the way all of this was handled (i.e. by Crimson) was very funny.I have accepted for a long time now that RG1.04 is unlikely to be released.
I cared when SK and crimson tried to hide it--when SK flamed angel6 and others for pointing out that he cheated (saying things like "WHERE'S UR PRROOF LOL UR SO FUCING DUMB GROW UP KID") and when Crimson admitted to angel that she knew SK was using exploits but she tried to deny it to the public. Now that he has come clean about his actions, things are different and time will tell what changes this brings in the long run. Hopefully a few individuals have learned a lesson from this.
This is my last word on the matter.
[Updated on: Thu, 18 January 2007 21:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Who's the biggest retard on Renforums? [message #240070 is a reply to message #238676] |
Fri, 19 January 2007 08:20 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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My apologies then, Jimbo, I thought when you had stated
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Well put. THAT explains why he goes so far out of his way (while looking like a complete retard) to try to prove us wrong.
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You had included yourself in that statement by the use of the word "us" in countering my attempts to show how BHS shouldn't be held responsible (in other words, should continue to be trusted).
I didn't realize that trying to prove you("us") wrong didn't actually include you, specifically.
[Updated on: Fri, 19 January 2007 08:21] Report message to a moderator |
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