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Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 10:11 Go to next message
fl00d3d is currently offline  fl00d3d
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Viva la Resistance!
Justin Schultz (aka {WG}sm0ke) is up to his bullshit again, apparently.
Let me explain:

About a month ago I recognized that Crimson had cut Justin a break and gave
him a chance to clean up his act. She gave him access to the private
server owners forum (which he still has to the best of my knowledge). I
figured that was enough for me ... plus his persistant promises that he was
done flooding. He said that his clan was interested in joining my
community. When I explained the details of the community structure he said
he would discuss it with his members, vote on it, and get back to me with a
decision.

About a week ago Nightma12 and I pursued an option to silence "teh pwnerer"
who owns RenCorner and try to get the 04 nickname that he's been using. We
spoke with Kamuix and worked out a deal. The deal was as follows:
"The 04 nickname will be property of The Tsunami-Alliance for no less than
six months. Kamuix will be compensated with a dedicated server."

Justin said "don't worry I have this covered" and volunteered to cover the
expenses of this server. He already had a dedi paid for and just handed it
over to Kamuix so that we could get this rolling quickly. He said he was
doing it because of his mutual hatred for "teh pwnerer". He also said his
clan would be joining The Tsunami-Alliance.

This past week went by, no apparent problems ... pretty quiet on all
fronts, actually. I had created the forums for {WG} to use as well as a
teamspeak channel for them to use on our community teamspeak. I gave sm0ke
SA.

A day or two ago {WG} played #GW clan and there was some drama between them
saying "{WG} cheated" and "#GW flooded our server". I never saw proof of
either but I warned Justin that cheating would not be tolerated in Tsunami.
Though I do tend to believe #GW more than I would trust {WG} all things
considered. It was also at this time that I confronted sm0ke and said
something close to "look man you need to have your members using our forums
and teamspeak otherwise it defeats the purpose of joining the community" -
cuz they were still using their old forums. He told me that he wouldn't
force them to do anything, would not shut down their forums, etc.

I said, you guys voted on this and agreed if you can't hold your end of the
bargain I will will shut down your forums and teamspeak channel (took his
SA) and when you're ready ... you can join. I made it VERY clear that it
was not personal. I just cannot compromise the structure of my community
by making exceptions. He seemed OK with it and said he would talk to his
members.

Yesterday, Cpt.Howdy of _OZ_ who has been helping him with their website
and is also my new webmaster told me that Justin said I "did him wrong". I
had no idea wtf he was talking about so I asked him. Justin assured me
that he never said that and that there were no problems.

Today, I wake up to find that Justin told Kamuix to reset the password so
that he could use it on his server -- or he'd shut down the box he gave
him. So now 04 is running on {WG}The Wargrounds AOW/CCM.

This nickname is property of my community and I am declaring it as STOLEN.
The original agreement is that the nick is property of Tsunami Alliance in
exchange for a server. Under NO circumstances was it said that if Justin
decided to pull his funding/box that the nick would become his. Nightma12
and I will provide Kamuix with a box since Justin has decided not to. But
that does NOT make the nickname his.

I gave him a chance to be a part of our community. I gave him confidence
where many others would not. And this is how he "does me wrong".

Tell me, Justin ... where did I do YOU wrong? What justifies:
--You lying to me about everything being ok
--You stealing a nickname that you know is not your property

I have a feeling this was premeditated and done intentionally. Justin has
always been looking for a way to forward his community/server and I think
this was just another plot to do just that. Why else would he want to
join the community - but not actually join it ... at the same time that
this nickname deal was going down? Why else would he volunteer hundreds of
dollars "just cuz"? This is really low and unexpected.

I have countless MSN conversations and IRC logs backing up every
conversation him and I have had. I also have Crimson as my witness to the
04 nickname agreement.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 October 2006 12:17] by Moderator

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Re: To all the clans [message #228126 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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not to worried about it fl00d3d, you wanna go after Howdy. go for it. You tried burning me, but it didnt work. Go for revenge, Now after seeing the crap you pull, your no better then matix(teh-pwnerer)

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Re: To all the clans [message #228130 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fl00d3d is currently offline  fl00d3d
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Viva la Resistance!
Oh, please do explain. You stole a nick and have a history of flooding people's servers.

I've never stolen a nick and I've never flooded anyone's servers. I spoke with Cpt.Howdy yesterday because I knew you were scheming something.

Be thankfull that I haven't made my post on these forums about your shit yet. Cuz if I do, you'd be flamed as bad as Matix. I gave you a chance to be honest with me and instead you chose to lie. You're in a poor situation right now and it would be in your best interest to make things right. I never did you wrong - you did yourself wrong. And I have plenty of logs and Crimson to prove that.
Re: To all the clans [message #228132 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12 is currently offline  Nightma12
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Justin, can you please PM me with what the hell has happened??
Re: To all the clans [message #228133 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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Well considering Ive already spoken to crimson fl00d3d. I dont foresee that being of much help.

1. I paid for the box that got the nick.

2. I setup the deal with Kam.

3. I didnt get what was suppoed to be given to me from you guys.

4. I took the nick back.


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Re: To all the clans [message #228134 is a reply to message #228133] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fl00d3d is currently offline  fl00d3d
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Viva la Resistance!
jschultz9 wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 14:36

Well considering Ive already spoken to crimson fl00d3d. I dont foresee that being of much help.

1. I paid for the box that got the nick.

2. I setup the deal with Kam.

3. I didnt get what was suppoed to be given to me from you guys.

4. I took the nick back.


1. The deal that CRIMSON WITNESSED was that Tsunami-Alliance owns the 04 nickname for no less than six months and Kamuix would be compensated with a dedicated server.

2. You volunteered to pay for the box. Thanks. Now you don't want to - fine, but thats not YOUR nick. Sorry, pal. It was VERY clearly worded to be property of Tsunami in front of Crimson and Kamuix. You did not set up the deal, you were a part of the deal. And now I see why.

3. What didn't you get from us? Please share with the community. Also, while you're at it, please explain why you told me just yesterday that you never said "I did you wrong" and that everything was OK. I'd like an answer for that. ALSO please tell me when you EVER had a complaint about something or tried to resolve it with Nightma12 or I? Oh wait, you didn't.

4. You stole the nick. The nick it Tsunami's and you grabbed Kamuix's nuts by threatening to shut down his server if he didnt reset the nick. Kamuix will be getting the box we promised him and we will be getting OUR nickname back.

Thief.
Re: To all the clans [message #228135 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tunaman
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Why are you guys posting this here?
And this is all over a nick? Lol?


http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9055/tunamanlmao.png
Re: To all the clans [message #228137 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nightma12 is currently offline  Nightma12
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What was you promised?

28 player server hosted for free under the 0e nick (as far as i was aware)

you asked me on MSN to set u up FTP a few days ago, which i did, what else was offered that i was unaware of?


EDIT: and yes, this needs to be put into another topic

[Updated on: Wed, 25 October 2006 11:46]

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Re: To all the clans [message #228138 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fl00d3d is currently offline  fl00d3d
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Viva la Resistance!
Lee, even IF there was something that he wasn't happy with ... why didn't he say something? I gotta hear this reponse, its going to be good.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228145 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave is currently offline  Dave
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its like he didnt got what he wanted and then because he didnt got what he wanted took TSUNAMI'S 04 NICK away. Thats low by the ground. Lame action of you. But thats not my problem although i play on that server often. You are fucking people who like to play on renunderground server ! Thanks these guys (sm0ke, Matix etc) are fucking up renegade for people. I hope you will get punished. Because i heard this is not the only thing you have done to people.

Little thief get friends ...
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228147 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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First post edited

I'm the bawss.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228148 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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in order for it to be TSU nick, they have to pay for the box. Which fl00ded didnt do. I pay for the box, I was being nice trying to help fl00d3d out.

I will not turn this into a flame fest like it did with matix, Fl00d3d you can pull are your little TSU guys in ehre flame me all you like, Threaten to make me look bad by Sending me PMS on here.

I DO NOT CARE. You want the nick 04 so bad? You used me to get it from matix. It just didnt work out the way you wanted it to. Now your pissed.

Get over it. I broke no Rules what so ever. Theres no LEGAL binding Contract between you and Kam. Theres a deal, a box for a nick. I own the box, he owns the nick. Plain and simple. I was being nice trying to help you out.

Quote:

I never did you wrong and you fucking know it. I reccommend you get your ass on MSN and explain what the hell all of this is about before it makes you look bad. I never made the post I intended to make because I got a hold of Crimson and I was trying to deal with it silently. I've been asking you for days if something was wrong and you said no. Now I found out that was a lie and you're backstabbing me by stealing Tsunami's property. This will not turn out pretty for you if you're trying to make a run for it. Trust me. I gave you my trust and now you're spitting on it just like the little kid "matix". YOU are the one that is no different. You need to speak with me liek I've been trying to do for the last couple of days, come clean, say what is on your mind, and do what is right. The nickname is property of Tsunami. Crimson witnessed that. And we will hold our end of the bargain. But since you gave us NO warning, you pressured Kamuix into working with you -- and everyone sees that. It will all be cleared up very soon...


Your little PM doesnt worry me fl00d3d. Like I said fl;ame me all you like, Bring up the past. I dont give a shit.

Quote:

Today, I wake up to find that Justin told Kamuix to reset the password so
that he could use it on his server -- or he'd shut down the box he gave
him. So now 04 is running on {WG}The Wargrounds AOW/CCM.


I never once gave kam an option of that sort
I simply spoke with him, told him the situation and had him reset the password for the server.

The owner of the nick, changed the password and handed me the nick in trade for the box I gave him. So where u stand in this situation is nowhere fl00d3d.


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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228150 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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Based on what I've seen posted here, is that the nick goes back to Kamuix.

Quote:

Theres no LEGAL binding Contract between you and Kam.


Consideration was exchanged, so there was a legal contract.

From what I've seen the contract was among TA, jshultz and kamuix. TA gets use of the nick, in exchange for the box, which was to be provided by jshultz. The person who pays for the box does not get the nick, as it was not part of the agreement.

jshultz, you may have been doing something nice for fl00ded, but you screwed yourself here. As long as Kamuix has the box, TA gets the nick; as per that "deal" (all deals are contracts, by the way) you stated.

The only two problems now, is whether or not Kamuix gets any of the blame for (innocently or not) breaking the contract, and how any correction of this breach will be enforced.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228151 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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I am inclined to agree with you, warranto. I "witnessed" the agreement and Kamuix specifically said that the deal was made between himself and Tsunami. If jschultz is unwilling to pay for the server, then Kam should allow Tsunami a reasonable amount of time to replace the server from their end of the deal before breaking it.

I'm the bawss.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228152 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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Little snip from a convo with Crimson:

Quote:

15[Crimson15] but if the deal with you and fl00ded doesn't work out then you are the one with the power since you are paying for the box
15[sm0ke15] I didnt wanna get screwed, and use the nick, then get banned for "breaching" a contract fo some sort
15[sm0ke15] lol
15[sm0ke15] k
15[sm0ke15] thats what I thought
15[Crimson15] There's no legal binding


Crimson can of course check her logs to see if its edited, which it isnt.


There is no legal binding contract. Kam was trading the nick for a box, which is Controlled by me. Kam and I and Lee will be getting together this afternoon to work this all out.

Since fl00d3d cant maintain a simple conversation with me and Lee in a MSN confrenece.


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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228154 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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Unfortunately, there is a legally binding contract.

Consideration was exchanged; TA got the nick, Kamuix got the box. That is what makes it a contract. Unless you can prove someone was mentally challenged, or there was no meeting of the minds, then it is legally binding.

Quote:

Kam was trading the nick for a box


Kamuix was trading a nick TO TA, for a box. removing the parties involved doesn't make you more right.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228155 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crimson is currently offline  Crimson
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Oct 18 15:28:43 <Kamuix> Me and tsunami are making a deal for the A00000004 nickname Smile, I have promised him the nickname for at least 6 months, as he promised me a server and a few other things

He said the deal was with Tsunami. Tsunami should have the opportunity to pay for the dedicated server in the deal if jschultz is no longer willing to do so.


I'm the bawss.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228156 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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exactly, so you cant remove me from it either warranto.

because without me there was no deal period. This situation wouldnt even be here. The host name would still be in the hands of Matix(teh-pwnerer)



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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228157 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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Well end result is that its up to Kam, ill respect Kams decision. Its his nick. So he will have to choose who gets the nick.

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[Updated on: Wed, 25 October 2006 13:03]

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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228159 is a reply to message #228156] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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jschultz9 wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 15:56

exactly, so you cant remove me from it either warranto.

because without me there was no deal period. This situation wouldnt even be here. The host name would still be in the hands of Matix(teh-pwnerer)



The contract is with Kamuix and Tsunami. The agreement you and Tsunami had was NOT directly related to the deal with Kamuix and Tsunami. Therefore, you are NOT entitled to the nickname because you paid for it.

However, I'm wondering that if you took the server out from underneath Kam if it would then break the contract between him and Tsunami, allowing for you to make a deal with Kam for the nickname.


whoa.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228160 is a reply to message #228156] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warranto is currently offline  warranto
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jschultz9 wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 13:56

exactly, so you cant remove me from it either warranto.

because without me there was no deal period. This situation wouldnt even be here. The host name would still be in the hands of Matix(teh-pwnerer)




Exactly, which is why I said that the nick should go back to Kamuix. TA is no longer able to provide the box, therefore the contract is void. You don't automatically get it simply because you are paying for the box.

Quote:

However, I'm wondering that if you took the server out from underneath Kam if it would then break the contract between him and Tsunami, allowing for you to make a deal with Kam for the nickname.


Correct. Providing that what we see here is the entire story.

Underhanded, yes... but very much able.

Edit: just to make a clarification:

So long as TA (through jshultz) is providing Kamuix with a box, they get the use of the name. That's what the arguement is about: Kamuix is still getting the use of the box that TA agreed to provide, but no longer has the nick.

[Updated on: Wed, 25 October 2006 13:09]

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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228161 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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OK heres how the whole MSN deal went down.

I approached Kam. While I was in with fl00d3d. I made the deal with Kam for the box. Kam came back to me and said fl00d3d isnt offering him a box, hes offering him webhosting and some other misc. stuff. I said I would trade the box for the nick, so fl00d3d can use it for Renunderground. This is all in connection with me and fl00d3d and Nightmas agreement. Which Was a0000000e, and a 28 player server, and Admin with TSU, and A part in the hosting services with TSU and aohost, as well as fl00d3d making the next payment.

Sean was told it was due on the 24th. He made no payment for the box thats is used to trade for the nick. I did not get admin, did not get in with the hosting.

I approached Kam, as well as Crimson. had lengthy discussions with them both. fl00d3d did not hold up to his end of the deal with me. SO Kam and I spoke, and he likes the server hes on, wants to keep it. SO since Kam was witness to the original deal, where I was involved. Kam knows I made the original deal.

fl00d3d and TSU did not offer him a server box. I did, and I allowed fl00d3d to use the nick for renunderground. I asked fl00d3d if he wanted me there to make the deal with Kam in front of Crimson, he said no. Now I see why.

But end result like I said before. Its up to Kam, you may have scammed and ran Matix in the ground fl00d3d, all for this nickname. But you wouldnt have ever gotten this nick if it wasnt for me.



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Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228162 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave is currently offline  Dave
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but you guys made a deal that it goes to TA ... And they didnt forced you to give kamuix a box. You did it yourself. So if i watch from that point of few i think the nick belongs to TA...
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228163 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cheesesoda is currently offline  cheesesoda
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If fl00d3d didn't hold up his end of the agreement with you, then he voids your contract. In doing so, you have no agreement to keep letting Kamuix use the box, allowing you to take it from him, thus voiding his and TA's contract. If both of those incidents took place, then you having the nick is neither morally or legally wrong, in my eyes.

whoa.
Re: Dispute between WG and Tsunami [message #228164 is a reply to message #228121] Wed, 25 October 2006 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
jschultz9 is currently offline  jschultz9
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fl00d3d failed to make his payment on the box, I kept the box online, made the payment, kam was able to keep his servers and everything online. Without having to switch everything to a new box.

Kam agreed to this, as it was in his best intrest since fl00d3d didnt make his payment to me for the box.

I could have shut down the box, and left everyone sitting high and dry, but I didnt, I made things easier for Kam and good for me. Sorry fl00d3d, but I dont fork out cash of 200 a month to get screwed over. You dont pay me, ill let box go offline, Kam looses his stuff, you loose nick. I get Kam a new box, i get nick.

All has the same end result. Just without all the extra leg work.


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