Home » Renegade Discussions » Mod Forum » C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix
| C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #220956] |
Thu, 21 September 2006 20:35  |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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I was over my friends house the a few weeks ago, and wanted to play a map I put up on CnC-source. Well, I go there, download the map "C&C_Dust_Storm.mix"
I played it and I'm like "o_. WTF?!?! I MADE THIS?!? THIS IS NOT A MAP IT IS McDONALDS THAT WAS THROWN INTO A SPINNING HELICOPTER PROPELER!"
So I went back, and remastered it.  And I must say, 100% better than the crap-map it used to be.
anyway here: http://files.filefront.com/CC_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2mix/;552980 0;;/fileinfo.html
It is Version 2, cause version 1 was sort of... an internal beta test. but this one is better.
The map has less AI infantry bots than the old one, but it makes up for it with a massive AI Tank battle. (Thank you neo_vehical_AI)
The battles are intence. And I also added a secret area. Look up, down, and listen for odd sounds.
The map still uses the old terrain, but you wont notice cause of how much fun the tank battles are XD
(Removed Nod APC and replaced with Nod recon bike <-- Settings thanks to nameme99. Also Spet5 (I think his name on this forum >.>) supplyed the tiberium silo modles)
[Updated on: Thu, 21 September 2006 20:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #221216 is a reply to message #221096] |
Fri, 22 September 2006 12:52  |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Yea, I know that... I just figured you guys would be smart enough to fix it.
(I think I told you how to fix it on filefront in the discription)
Just rename it and put it in the data folder, it will work. (File front takes out the "&" from the file name by itself... And I am too lazy to zip it... lol)
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Ok, little late but here: discription of the map.
It is Weapons Factory/Silo/Repair Pad vs AirStrip/Silo/Repair Pad
It is full of vehical AI, and a few bot AI. There are small base defences on the map (GDI has 4 guard towers, Nod has 3 turrets. The turrets are tweeked, they shoot faster, and have a stronger gun)
The Nod purchase settings where edited so that the APC was replaced with a recon bike for 300 credits. (And the 3 Recon AI vehicals are l337 )
^^^
The recon bike settings were given to me by nameme99.
There are 2 hidden secrets on the map. One hidden weapon spawner, and one hidden area which has some more hidden weapons, and 2 hidden vehicals
I tweeked the vehicals so that they are unteamed when you build them, so the vehicals bought won't count to the limit. (You could mass an army of 1000 mammoths and it still won't max out!)
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Known Bugs:
-Vehical Limits: Since there are so many vehicals already on the map, the limit is maxed at the start. (If I make another version, I will fix it, I know how) But what you do (If you have a recent version of Scripts.dll and bhs.dll) is ingame, in the beginning of the map, open up command mode (~ or F8) then type "vlimit 20" that pushes the limit to 20 and you will be able to build.
-Stupid bots. There is 1 bot on each team that spawns in a building... they are rather... stupid.
-Name of file starts with a "CC" instead of "C&C" File front changes it on me, so just make it "C&C" before you put it in your Data folder.
-If you find the secret vehicals, try to keep them away from the guard tower, they tend to get stuck.
-Clipping errors on the wep and the repair facilities
-It is rather hard to get some vehicals up on the Nod repair facility. So just go up where the red flashing lights are.
[Updated on: Fri, 22 September 2006 13:07] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #221463 is a reply to message #220956] |
Sat, 23 September 2006 15:15 |
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cmatt42
Messages: 2057
Registered: July 2004
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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I love this map! It has several nifty features:
Missing textures:
Something that appears to be some sort of space/time anomaly:
More missing textures:
Useless propaganda:
Ultimate Flying Semi-Hills of Unprecedented Doom™:
There's more! The "secret area" has aircraft and is located in the back of Nod's base. GDI has no such counterpart and the one in the Nod base is much too far out of reach of GDI. Nod's beacon pedestal is back there, too, unlike GDI's pedestal, which is in the front area of GDI's base.
Who doesn't love a vehicle limit of only one? To add to that, if your vehicle gets stolen from the other team, you can't buy a vehicle until you destroy or steal it back. Until then, your team is severely screwed!
Advanced infantry? Who needs them? All you have are the forces of the basics. "Oh, but you have weapon pick ups to complement the simplicity!" you may say. I say, "Screw that. You might as well give everyone Ramjet rifles with one clip when they spawn."
The dust is great and everything, but the entire mass of it coupled with the probably large group of unnecessary garbage lowers my FPS rate in ways that Glacier could not. You, sir, win the prize for such.
Yes, this map is one of the most team-biased maps I've ever played on. Thanks, razorblade001, you've made my day!
GunKataGaming.net
[Updated on: Sat, 23 September 2006 15:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #221742 is a reply to message #221463] |
Sat, 23 September 2006 22:02 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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ok, My fault for not including the right textures.
But your missing the point of the map.
It is not ment to be played online. AI means Lag online.... That
And if you read any of the readme files, or anything besides just downloading and playing... you would know how to fix the vehical limit problem.
...I mean really:
This is a quote from my post, right above yours!
| Quote: |
Also, read the readme's "Known Bugs" section, because there are somethings you will have questions about, it tells you how to go about them.
Like the maxed vehical limit, for example. It explains how to fix it.
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And you are wrong about the other team stealing vehicals, cause I fixed that. I made purchased vehicals unteamed.
You could by as many vehicals as you want, and there is no limit (asside from the limit of the AI vehicals)
You need to type the command "vlimit" and put a number that will allow you to build (Just put like 20 or something)
The pedistals are just there so the game is possible to end fast.
of course... that is what the quit button is for... but who cares.
the hills are like that cause this map isn't ment for flying. Just some people were bugging me to put flying stuff in.... So i did secretly.
It is there, cause you wouldn't think to look there (If not for the hints and crap I gave... and asside the fact of someone using W3D viewer)
The static thingy... was supposed to be a repair pad.... I honostly don't know why it didn't show up.
Just basicly, since this map isn't supposed to be played online, that eliminates the "One sided" theme to the map.
The point is to play in the AI battle.... Alone. If I was making a map for online play, I quadruple check to see if the map is fitting, backgrounds, no "half-cliffs", flight roofs, correct textures (which again, is my fault), ect.
Oh, and btw:
Your frame rate, is your problem. I am pretty sure I said something about that in the readme... something like if your computer isn't crappy-ish, you should be able to play without a low FPS.
I get 30 when I play on it, and it runs really smooth. So, either not play the map, or get a better card...
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EDIT: Question, Does Nod have the same static thingy in their base? Or can you actually see the repair pad?
[Updated on: Sat, 23 September 2006 22:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #221836 is a reply to message #220956] |
Sun, 24 September 2006 08:53 |
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LR01
Messages: 842
Registered: April 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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It is a fun map, but since this is ment to be played alone, you should make something like a mission, that would nicer, no endless respawn battle
Moding can be real Fun...
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #222954 is a reply to message #220956] |
Wed, 27 September 2006 20:23 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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people don't like to read posts... First off, It is MY map and I said it sucked...
Look at the discription in the 1st post -_- ...
I said it before, I'll say it again. This map was a REMAKE of an OLD crap-map I did 2 years ago.. If you care to go check out the other 1, I dare you to say that the old 1 is better. (If you do, you should be shot)
And @ cmatt's quote where he said flip-flop. Notice that I said "(That I know of)" meaning your the only person who has said anything.... dosn't mean your the only person with the problems.
and actually. Average speed to most integraded cards is about 25-40 Fps, which is very playable.
50-75 is for most cards. Which is good. Anything over is either a really good card, or is using that thing you stick in the folder and change the config with a config2.exe
Cause getting 100-200 fps... normally... without that patch... should not be possible..
I mean the game can only run so smooth, and when the game runs on 75 fps... it seems to me like it runs TOO smooth... so 100-200 is just ... wow
[Updated on: Wed, 27 September 2006 20:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #223115 is a reply to message #220956] |
Thu, 28 September 2006 09:44 |
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Halo38
Messages: 955
Registered: February 2003
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I've been following this thread since it was first posted and it's a shame it has decended into a rich source of sarcastic jokes and insults, so I have decided to play the map and give my opinion based on 'experience' aimed at helping you razor in your future ren projects. please bear in mind i'm a perfectionist too 
I'm giving you my views as you made this map maybe becasue your creative or you liked the challenge and will most likly make something else for ren.
So I download it no problems there some screenshots would have been nice though to entice me
Started playing on 1 player Lan-
The battles are pretty good made me feel like I was playing single player at some points while fighting on foot though the vehicels on the right seem to be much more aggresive than on the left I'm certain I was never attacked by vechiles on the left but the ones on the right couldn't get enough of me 
You implied that it was the "experience" you wanted people to pay attention to so here is my thoughts on that.
To start with you can't tell people "this is the way you have to play this map" it just don't work like that everything you do when making the map has to compliment your ideas in this case the "experience" you were trying to create.
For example in C&C_Arid I wanted to create a town that infantry would fight in and around to gain an advantage over the other team for this reason going into the town has to give an advantage to the player entering into it or he won't enter the town he will go around it (smiple really) for this reason I made sure that players had a better attacking position against the enemies harvester and silo, made healing points in the town (beds) extra weapons and ammo spawns too. and players could leave the town easily by jumping over the walls to suprise attack the enemy this makes the town 'sexy' and it will often be used by players I hope we will see when it is added the UNrules new maps rotation.
So back to your map - here is a list of things which I think were good in adding to the experience you were trying to create.
The Experience - Enhancing points
- There is only 1 buildings you spawn in, the wf, which is good, as you can control the players movements indirectly directing him from that start point (i bet most players when beginning if they didn't buy a vechile went left as i did as that was where the eye is drawn to - if they bought a vehicle they went right as that was where they were faceing) this may sound a bit trivial but it can be essential when trying to direct players to do what you want them to in a subconcious way.
- It was good that I met a very chatty GDI AI unit as soon as I left the building it felt like we were in the same fight as each other, and with a bit of prodding but he soon ran of the battle field with me (left) - using AI in this way greatly enhance the experience.
-The tank battle on the right was quite fierce
-There was an objective to destroy (the nod base) giving purpose to the map.
-Spawned weapons were a good thing
-No default advanced characters which was a good thing (come to why in a minute)
-Soldier AI did fight alot.
-The tank battle on the right had light tanks at the frontline and artilery behind them (how they would normally attack in ren online and in real life)
The Experience - Detrimental points + my opionion on how to improve them
Ok now the things that were detrimental to the experience you were trying to create.
-Battle's don't seem as fierce from the camera angle in a vehicle as it is so high and almost detached from the battle - for this reason I would say remove the wf all together and replace it with a barracks and to keep the advanced characters out of the game modify the purchase setting so that there are no charcters to buy or you could change the presets of all the charcters so that which ever one you bought they would have 100 health armour and a standard weapon c4 etc.... allowing someone to play as there favorite character is a plus on any ren map. to add variation to game play you could create alot of diffrent weapons spawners just outside the barracks in maybe a low sand bag walled weapons cache type area so as you run out you can grab some weapons and off to the battle, I say a low sand bag walled area as i didn't even realise that there were weapon spawns in the wf till i watched your video, and with only 1 exit to the barracks no one will miss them. The weapon spawners should have a long respawn time and a fairly long variation time as most players will grab all the weapons first time round die and then only a few will be available when they respawn creating variation in game play through the weapons you grant the player.
The main problem with vechiles is that they make the experience too easy to win players want a challenge if you have ever played the online mission maps you will understand why they are so popular mainly because they are very hard! - players love a challenge. I was able to march my mammoth tank through the right side through the entire nod army to their base destroying the airstrip before I was stopped.
Repair guys should be left out if you have vehicles or have limited ammo if you have vehicles in as it makes the game too easy.
The AI you first meet as you say is a little stupid which is a shame if they could be made to spawn somewhere where they run with you to the battle that would add to the experience.
The inclusion of a secret area with the air vehicles and extra weapons is also detrimental it's far away from the combat and also makes it too easy with the orcas.
The recon bikes don't seem to attack with weapons so if your in a vehicles there is no need to fear them, on foot how ever they seem to want to try to run you over one even tried to chase me up the hill that leads to the secret area it was nice that they took the initative to attack me while I was unaware - think how you can add more of that (spawning enemy round corners etc..)
Nod needed alot more turrets, base walls too something to make players want to fight to get inside and kill nod scum!
the tunnel shortcut don't help with the experience it keeps you away from the main battle.
what would make it brilliant is if you did nothing the gdi base would eventually be over run by nod AI (troops at least - I know the limitations of vehicle AI) of course this would require alot of tweaking
Too many gdi GT makes the above impossible - IMO, none would be better putting the onus on the player to defend his base.
If your hell bent on including vehicles in this type of map give them very very long spawn times low health and armour limited ammo etc.. and no repair guns as I said.
I also saw GDI AI attacking unmanned Nod gun emplacements.
Music would be good too like some from the single player or if you really did pull of the experience well some dramatic orchestral piece maybe?
Art wise - comments
I like the tree is has an intersting eye catching distressed form
More diffrent textures would be good
The thanks you give to the people that helped you is quite tacky a readme comment is enough - unless you use some of my stuff then I would condone a huge banner 
The vegitation you dotted around the battle field is great
Technical stuff
Every modder knows that when you use a battles worth of AI in ren it's like kicking your system in the balls in terms of performance. you seem to have judges the impact that AI have on performance well i personally get 38 FPS average in battle i have to go to the back of the nod base climb a small hill so i can look at everything before i notice it dropped to around 28.
Lets remember that in the US TV's NTSC format in 30 FPS and in the UK PAL is 25 FPS, so in my opinion for an AI fan map where your not getting paid not going below 30 fps when it counts (during battle) is acceptable and you have done this I have no complaints about frame rate any one that goes against that really dosn't understand how much effort goes into making a fan map or the impact that AI has on the game.
Thats about it really haven't had a chance to proof read everything but i hope it helps in your future ren projects
Online Portfolio - www.chettle1.com
Renegade projects - Halo38's Den hosted by www.laeubi.de
Creator of : C&C_Arid, C&C_Ancients, C&C_Bio, C&C_Duel Arena
Mod Wars Veteran
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #223157 is a reply to message #222954] |
Thu, 28 September 2006 12:23 |
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disclaimer226
Messages: 11
Registered: September 2006
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| razorblade001 wrote on Wed, 27 September 2006 22:23 |
and actually. Average speed to most integraded cards is about 25-40 Fps, which is very playable.
50-75 is for most cards. Which is good. Anything over is either a really good card, or is using that thing you stick in the folder and change the config with a config2.exe
Cause getting 100-200 fps... normally... without that patch... should not be possible..
I mean the game can only run so smooth, and when the game runs on 75 fps... it seems to me like it runs TOO smooth... so 100-200 is just ... wow
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Ehh, My card isn't even that good.
Anyway, what is this "patch" you spead of?
Ohh You must mean the DirectX 9 suport. No, I do not use it. I keep my renegade totally clean (LOL). I know having the FPS higher than your refeash rate is pointless, but having it is something to brag about.. as you can see.
I have VSYNC turned off in the card drivers, so the FPS goes above my refresh rate of 75hz... for all my games.
My WHOLE POINT IS:
When you said it is ONLY cmatt42 lagging, it is not. I only have one computer that this map is playable on, and it is the one that is get average of 55fps on.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 September 2006 12:26] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #223181 is a reply to message #223115] |
Thu, 28 September 2006 13:23 |
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R315r4z0r
Messages: 3836
Registered: March 2005
Location: New York
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Thank you Halo, that is the exact kind of post I was looking for.
And I can build off of it.
Btw, thanks for the Good things you said about it in the enhancement points, and the art part, cause most of the stuff there, is what I was aiming for.
Ok, now onto the rest. The first comment in the Ditermental points is to replace the Wf with the Barr.
I was actually thinking of doing that. But as I said before, I wanted to do a remake of the old version, so that I didn't want to change the key buildings.
So I decided, I would make a new map (with the AI tanks, cause I loved it so much) and to make it barranks vs hand.
I am glad to hear that that idea might work out better than I hoped.
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You said that the battle was too easily won. I couldn't agree more with you.
I tryed so many things to make it harder. But the Neo_Vehical_AI didn't work to capacity. I had set vehicals to use certain weapons for certain targets... but it had no such luck. For example, the AI Mammoth tank was supposed to use its cannons for Vehicals, and Rockets for Infantry and Air Vehicals.
The other vehicals without rockets weren't supposed to shoot in the air, cause I left that field on 0 (Neither primary or secondary fire)
But.. they still all attacked, and still all used primary fire.
And If I added more vehicals... it would of been low on FPS. (Which is the reason there isn't as many Infantry bots. Tanks bots, believe it or not, consume a lot less FPS than Inf bots. That is why I was able to include so many without the frame rate dropping too drasticly. (The low frame rate is because of the inf that are there, and some of the vehicals)
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About the recon bikes, you said they didn't attack.. really They seem to run chase me down in vehicals all the time... lol
Like this one time I was a GDI apc, I was pelted with a few artillery shots, and dropped to like 23 hp, so I drove off the battle field. Then When I thought I was in a safe place, I turn the camera around, and a reconbike is gaining. It got close then fired a rocket into the back of the vehical, then drove past me. Then going at full speed, it skidd and turned around then Head shotted me with another rocket.
I was all like "OMG HAX" lol. But your the second person who has said the recons don't fire. Could it be something with the scripts?
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Ok, another thing you said was vehical health, ammo, and respawn time. It is funny you should mention that. You see, notice the map name has a "V2" at the end, meaning Version 2. Version 1 was a private release on another forum. There the vehical healths were normal, the respawn times were 2-3 times longer than they are currently, and the ammo was the same. (Also there weren't as many vehicals)
The problem that I faced with the respawn times was that, once the battle ended between a bunch of vehicals. They would take a long, long time for the battle to start up again. And since they had died at different times, they would spawn individualy. So Say GDI killed the Nod tanks, from then on another Nod tank would spawn, and wonder its way into the battle. But since I had to use M03_Base_Patrol, they went very slow, and had to wait untill they got into possision. And the GDI tanks would destroy them before they were able to fire back.
So the fix was:
-Add more vehicals
-Lower the respawn times
-Kick up the health for vehicals
And yes, I tryed many scripts for way paths, but they cancelled out Neo_Vehical_AI, and once I entered the battle ALL tanks (GDI AND Nod) Shot at me!
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I admit, I made it too easy to find the secret stuff. (Has anyone found the hidden weapon spawner?)
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Another point you bring up that I was concidering. Music. It turns out that there IS music in the map, but you don't realize it. The music is the wind blowing. Cause normaly, the weather like rain and wind die out after a while. So I figured I would fix it up to always have the wind blowing.
I also didn't want any other music on the map, cause the stuff I tryed didn't fit, and also cause I liked the natural feel to it.
So yea... thats the deal with the music
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Tunnal shortcut. If you ever played the Old version of the map, the tunnal was used a lot. The old version had about 20 bots on both sides, and The tunnal was used a lot. And Although I was thinking to remove it, I didn't want to. (Plus it is fun to drive the recon bike through it )
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(Lol, now that I look at it, the complementing thing on the back of the buildings was a little dumb... lol)
Anyway, thank you for that post, it allowed me to clear somethings up, and also I liked the way you posted it.
(Btw, I was talking to another person who played the map, and they said the fix for the vehical limit worked. So what I am going to do, and for those who it dosn't work for, check to see if you have the latest Scripts.dll
I believe that maybe the problem. If it is, the vehical limit will automaticly be set to 20 vehicals, thus you won't have to put the command in)
[Updated on: Thu, 28 September 2006 13:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: C&C_Dust_Storm_Redux_V2.mix [message #223489 is a reply to message #220956] |
Fri, 29 September 2006 09:28 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
Location: Moved a long time ago (it...
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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I removed most of the discussion about FPS and back-and-forth bickering between razor and cmatt to give this thread one more shot, but I left cmatt's initial post stand because it seems to point out legitimate problems. If you didn't like that your post was removed--sorry. I still think this thread could be productive.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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) and I get 55 average on your map.
