Home » Renegade Discussions » Tactics and Strategies » n00bjet-no
| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197036 is a reply to message #197028] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 19:23   |
Tunaman
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| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 |
You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card?
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If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you.
1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost.
2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously.
3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy.
4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you?
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197039 is a reply to message #197036] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 19:37 |
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nukchebi0
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| Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 |
You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card?
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If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you.
1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost.
2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously.
3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy.
4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you?
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1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise.
2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers.
3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters.
4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197040 is a reply to message #197035] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 19:39 |
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nukchebi0
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:16 |
Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters, they didn't care to actually make it fair though, which is exactly the point i'm trying to say. Westwood had no real intentions to making the ramjet be overpowered. They had no knowledge that people would abuse the fact people would use it to get massive points and have 5 n00bjets on one team. If they would have known they'd have made another unit and make it so that it takes a small amount of skill to kill a copter. Not make it so everyone can, as everyone does. So to answer your question, it WAS intended to be just to kill infantry. That's what a sniper rifle is for. You don't hear stories of the white feather shooting down tanks. It's because it's impractical. And besides even yet
And even so, it stilld oesn't explain why it's good against artys or anything, since tanks are aplenty good anti-arty or anti-mrl unit, so logically it doesn't fit at all.
Here let me stretch a story to make a point, if westwood had a gun that killed all copters in one hit, but copters could kill other things well, does that mean that it makes that specific gun any more or less fair? If it's going to be fair, make it so that it takes more skill to kill a copter. I'm fine if it's anti air and everything, but it shouldn't be able to kill a copter in 5 hits, if it was say 10 or something, than it would require a lot more skill for a person. Now do you understand? Just because it's anti-whatever doesn't mean it should be overpowered so much that it makes that unit useless
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If it really wasn't fair, wouldn't someone have made a patch to fix it, especially Westwood, considering the amount of feedback they have recieved. Also, helicopters do need a counter.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197041 is a reply to message #196782] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 19:48 |
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Sniper_De7
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Uh because people didn't buy 5+ n00bjets back in 2002 when Westwood could make a patch to fix it. If you honestly think EA cares about Renegade enough so to make a patch for it, after 4 years of it, you'd be out of your mind. Westwood only put it in there at the last second, how could they possibly foretell that people were going to abuse n00bjets? They didn't. Let me answer why n00bjets are n00bjets.
If you're going to make a gun one of the things in question will be, "how fast does the gun reach its target?"
Now, for shooting a copter, having a gun that shoots INSTANTLY is already anti-air, since there's only few other guns that actually do this (pic/rave/pistol/others)
The second thing is...... "how far will the gun be able to shoot", in the case of a n00bjet, it shoots as far as the map allows it. Which is yet again another quality that makes it good for anti-air.
The last thing you want to ask is how much damage it does, now why in god's name would a gun have ALL OF ABOVE, and then have it's damage be MORE than any other infantry? This includes a PIC/Rave, which is specifically designed for killing tanks. If this doesn't sink in, i don't know what will. A ramjet is perfectly capable of being anti air if it did small amount of damage but kept the long range + instant shot. The fact that it has all three, makes it vastly over powered. Coupled with the fact that it can hide. It makes it even more so. Not to mention the supreme amount of points you gain by shooting over half-health vehicles just so that you can gain points (which people do, I don't give a damn if you don't, people do it all the time. Today there was a team of GDI sniping my arty so I decided to be like them and snipe the entire game, shooting at mammoth tanks and killing their n00bjets. I got MVP for basically doing nothing. A little pathetic, no?
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197043 is a reply to message #197039] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 20:11 |
Tunaman
Messages: 1189
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| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:37 |
| Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 |
You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card?
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If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you.
1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost.
2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously.
3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy.
4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you?
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1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise.
2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers.
3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters.
4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry.
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1) Then why do the rest of the infantry weapons suck compared to the Ramjet?
2) Just like any other infantry character.
3) It doesn't matter whether you're only talking about helicopters, its still a reason why ramjets are overpowered.
4) Taking account that the ramjet infantry can hide behind a wall after each shot and while reloading, it requires a lot more skill to snipe the ramjet infantry than it does for the ramjet infantry to kill the chopper/orca.
[Updated on: Wed, 19 April 2006 20:12] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197045 is a reply to message #197041] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 20:27 |
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nukchebi0
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:48 |
Uh because people didn't buy 5+ n00bjets back in 2002 when Westwood could make a patch to fix it. If you honestly think EA cares about Renegade enough so to make a patch for it, after 4 years of it, you'd be out of your mind. Westwood only put it in there at the last second, how could they possibly foretell that people were going to abuse n00bjets? They didn't. Let me answer why n00bjets are n00bjets.
If you're going to make a gun one of the things in question will be, "how fast does the gun reach its target?"
Now, for shooting a copter, having a gun that shoots INSTANTLY is already anti-air, since there's only few other guns that actually do this (pic/rave/pistol/others)
The second thing is...... "how far will the gun be able to shoot", in the case of a n00bjet, it shoots as far as the map allows it. Which is yet again another quality that makes it good for anti-air.
The last thing you want to ask is how much damage it does, now why in god's name would a gun have ALL OF ABOVE, and then have it's damage be MORE than any other infantry? This includes a PIC/Rave, which is specifically designed for killing tanks. If this doesn't sink in, i don't know what will. A ramjet is perfectly capable of being anti air if it did small amount of damage but kept the long range + instant shot. The fact that it has all three, makes it vastly over powered. Coupled with the fact that it can hide. It makes it even more so. Not to mention the supreme amount of points you gain by shooting over half-health vehicles just so that you can gain points (which people do, I don't give a damn if you don't, people do it all the time. Today there was a team of GDI sniping my arty so I decided to be like them and snipe the entire game, shooting at mammoth tanks and killing their n00bjets. I got MVP for basically doing nothing. A little pathetic, no?
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As far as I was aware, the PIC does more damage to tanks than the ramjet. However, I agree with you completely that the amount of points given for tank shots (14) is extraneous. However, a ramjetter within view of a helicopter should also be within view of a supporting sniper. Considering the strenght of helicopters against everything else, I think that a ramjet is perfectly fine. I have picked off three Sakuras in City Flying, protecting a transport helicopter rushing a base (I had help distracting) The Chinook had about one red bar left, but it dropped its payload sucessfully and killed the Nod powerplant. Of course, if I hadn't been there, it wouldn't have lived, thus showing the need for covering snipers when flying. I remember originally playing City_Flying and thinking that the Apache was sweet until getting blown out of the air by a ramjet. When my body landed on the bridge below, I was near a Medium Tank. Realizing my mistake, I decided to wait for the bridge to be taken by Nod before purchasing another Apache. I killed an Orca and two harvester that time, before accidentally pressing the 'E' button and falling to my doom.
Anyways, I have been scared away from helicopters. Based on mrpirate, you are a very good pilot, and obviously fly over hostile territory to rack up kills quickly. Could you maybe give me a few hints on flying so I can enjoy it again?
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197046 is a reply to message #197043] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 20:31 |
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nukchebi0
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| Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:11 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 22:37 |
| Ralphzehunter wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:23 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:47 |
You obviously didn't read close enough in my post about the balancing of the helicopter's power, or having a cover sniper. Anyway, what is your trump card?
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If you truly think that because the Ramjet Rifle is basically the only thing that can take down orcas and apaches besides other orcas and apaches, that this is a reason why it is not overpowered, then something is wrong with you.
1) The Ramjet Rifle is a sniper rifle... which happens to kill every character in 2 hits, and also decimates vehicles.. If you don't think its strange that an anti-infantry weapon severely damages vehicles, then my point will totally be lost.
2) The Ramjet Rifle does just the same or more damage to all of the light-armoured vehicle than any other infantry weapons can in the same amount of time, but with infinite range and instantaneously.
3) The Ramjet Rifle seems to be a all-purpose weapon! The amount of points that it gives just for shooting tanks is insane. If you think it takes any skill at all to pop a tank with a ramjet rifle, you must be crazy.
4) Part of the Ramjet's overpoweredness comes from it being the only weapon besides other orcas and choppers that can easily and effectively take them down, it severely outbalances the other weapons.. why bother buying something else when you can buy a ramjet and demolish the helicopters without them being able to take a shot at you?
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1. Conisidering Renegade's futuristic weaponry, that isn't a surprise.
2. Which comes at the expense of being an instant target for other snipers.
3. I don't like the benefits of shooting tanks. I was talking only about helicopters.
4. My experiences tell me other snipers can easily kill ramjet infantry.
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1) Then why do the rest of the infantry weapons suck compared to the Ramjet?
2) Just like any other infantry character.
3) It doesn't matter whether you're only talking about helicopters, its still a reason why ramjets are overpowered.
4) Taking account that the ramjet infantry can hide behind a wall after each shot and while reloading, it requires a lot more skill to snipe the ramjet infantry than it does for the ramjet infantry to kill the chopper/orca.
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1. The Volt-Auto Rifle, PIC, Laser chaingun, Chem Sprayer, to name a few that don't.
2. An annoyer is targeted first.
3. Over credited, more like it.
4. Not really, considering the ramjet infantry won't move around like a lunatic when not under direct attack, which makes headshots easy.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197052 is a reply to message #196782] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 21:11 |
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havoc9826
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 |
Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters
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First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down.
Secondly, would you prefer that the game be balanced as it was in singleplayer? If you ever play it, try shooting the buggy and apache with a sniper rifle, then a rocket, in the second level on Commando difficulty. Another important thing to note is that the rate of fire of the guns on the buggy, hummer, apaches, and APCs is also at least half of what it is in muitiplayer. Also, see what a remote C4 does to a building's MCT or a turret (or a rocket or grenade launcher to a turret), and what a Personal Ion Cannon/rocket/tank shell does to every vehicle. Would you prefer that the PIC take out everything through an APC in one hit, kill light tanks in two, and kill heavier vehicles in three or four shots? Would you like the slow rocket and grenade launcher to be capable of killing an apc in 3-4 hits, respectively? Would you want apaches restricted to chainguns, and orcas restricted to missiles, and have them refill on the helipad after discharging their payloads?
My philosophy on this issue is as follows: The default settings for the game have been the same as they were back in early 2003 when the 1.037 patch was released. Nothing is going to officially change, and the only differences you will see are made by specific server settings or community-made modifications. One example is Black-Cell's Veterancy system, which gives light vehicles increased resistance to the sniper rifle and Ramjet when you reach a certain score and kill a certain amount of enemy units. If you prefer to play in a vanilla (pure) Renegade server, and you've been playing since the game was released, you already know how it's going to be, so adapt your gameplay style to improve your success rate. If you possess this knowledge, yet you choose not to at least attempt to adapt, you have no just reason to gripe. Don't cry "n00bjet" if you're willing to fly into the fray as a lone forward assault unit while your team doesn't control the field enough to protect you from snipers. You have eyes and ears, and you know most of the game's possible strategies, as well as the preference of infantry-oriented players to buy snipers, so if you're not using your senses and knowledge, you only have yourself to blame for being blasted out of the sky.
[Updated on: Wed, 19 April 2006 21:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197053 is a reply to message #196782] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 21:17 |
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Dover
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Here's the arguement, pure and simple.
The noobjet is the noobjet because noobs buy them, and only them. In this case, a noob is someone who uses the ramjet for what it isn't intented (Shooting Mammoths, etc), and suck with them when faced with their actual task (Killing infantry).
My last game on C&C_City_Flying, Over half the team (12 people) were getting ramjets and nothing but ramjets. Coincidentally, all of those except for 1 or 2 had almost nonexistant score totals, with maybe 5 kills between them all.
You know what would balence the Ramjet? Making it the single-shot per clip variety like the kind you pick up from dead Sakuras. This makes a lot of sense, seeing how it's so high powered. Let it keep the range and the power and the instant shot, but make it a one-shot-at-a-time weapon.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197054 is a reply to message #197052] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 21:35 |
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Feetseek
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| havoc9826 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 23:11 |
| Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 |
Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters
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First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down.
Secondly, would you prefer that the game be balanced as it was in singleplayer? If you ever play it, try shooting the buggy and apache with a sniper rifle, then a rocket, in the second level on Commando difficulty. Another important thing to note is that the rate of fire of the guns on the buggy, hummer, apaches, and APCs is also at least half of what it is in muitiplayer. Also, see what a remote C4 does to a building's MCT or a turret (or a rocket or grenade launcher to a turret), and what a Personal Ion Cannon/rocket/tank shell does to every vehicle. Would you prefer that the PIC take out everything through an APC in one hit, kill light tanks in two, and kill heavier vehicles in three or four shots? Would you like the slow rocket and grenade launcher to be capable of killing an apc in 3-4 hits, respectively? Would you want apaches restricted to chainguns, and orcas restricted to missiles, and have them refill on the helipad after discharging their payloads?
My philosophy on this issue is as follows: The default settings for the game have been the same as they were back in early 2003 when the 1.037 patch was released. Nothing is going to officially change, and the only differences you will see are made by specific server settings or community-made modifications. One example is Black-Cell's Veterancy system, which gives light vehicles increased resistance to the sniper rifle and Ramjet when you reach a certain score and kill a certain amount of enemy units. If you prefer to play in a vanilla (pure) Renegade server, and you've been playing since the game was released, you already know how it's going to be, so adapt your gameplay style to improve your success rate. If you possess this knowledge, yet you choose not to at least attempt to adapt, you have no just reason to gripe. Don't cry "n00bjet" if you're willing to fly into the fray as a lone forward assault unit while your team doesn't control the field enough to protect you from snipers. You have eyes and ears, and you know most of the game's possible strategies, as well as the preference of infantry-oriented players to buy snipers, so if you're not using your senses and knowledge, you only have yourself to blame for being blasted out of the sky.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197065 is a reply to message #197056] |
Wed, 19 April 2006 23:03 |
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havoc9826
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I did a bit of Googling, and I found the patch notes for 1.014 and 1.015. Unless part of the "Multiplayer balance tweaking" and "Various modifications and bug fixes." listed in 1.014 include the MRLS rockets' seeker ability, I'm not sure when it was added. 1.014 came out 2 days after the game was released, and it included the "Q" button toggle and some other junk. 1.015 came out 1 day later to fix firewall problems. The next patch, 1.030, was released a month and a half later, and it included the flying vehicles. I'll attach the appended version I made of the patch history which is already on your computer at C:\Westwood\Renegade\patch.txt (mine includes the 1.014 and 1.015 notes).
[Updated on: Wed, 19 April 2006 23:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197087 is a reply to message #196782] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 05:25 |
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Sniper_De7
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I'm pretty sure it was said by aircraftkiller or someone else that worked with westwood said that they did it as such. But n00bjets completely lose their argument against Arties and MRLs and any other non-flying unit. There is a unit that's good against artys/mrls - Know what it's called? It's called a tank. Yet you see people n00bjetting them consistantly over and over. Why? Because they get massive points and it takes absolutely NO skill to shoot the tank since it's such a huge target. Like I said, I AGREE that a sniper can be an anti-air unit. The thing that needs changing is the fact that any dipshit can grab a n00bjet and hit a copter. Renegade isn't based around unit A kills unit B always. It's Person A, who has played the game 3times more than Person B (I'm not doing this on purpose mrp) Person A should normally always win, Despite if he uses a tib sydney or a havoc. Why? Because it's a skill for aiming at infantry. However, since it requires NO skill to shooot any vehicles in game (including a copter) Not to mention n00bjets do more damage over time than PIC (dealing with light armoured vehicles - 240 damage with 4 shots, meanwhile it takes 3 shots of a PIC/Rave to do the same thing, but they have to wait for reloading, meaning it takes longer) And besides, the idea of light armoured means that it has less health already. The fact that it needs to take irregular damage from ramjets makes it completely stupid.
Look, i don't know what else I need to tell you. Ramjets easily overpower copters. If you don't know what you're doing in a copter, you can do nothing to stop it. (Your own case is a very example of this, you stop coptering because it's useless) Which is the case for every other person who wants to try out a copter, they get owned so fast with snipers they don't stand a chance. I already admitted that anti-air is generally necessary the thing which fails to be addressed is that just because a unit is anti-whatever, doesn't mean that it should do massive damage to it. I mean if rockets did major damage to copters the people who buy n00bjets wouldn't buy rocket soldiers because that would require an ounce of skill to actually hit a copter. They specifically buy ramjets because it's extremely easy to use and it's overpowered. I don't know how much more clearer I can get.
edit: Also, I think I've already stated that I can usually kill most of the havocs anyways. I also said that anyone *else* who wants to be in a copter doesn't stand a chance against 5 ramjets. Snipers would perfectly be capable of being support against air if they did small amounts of damage, since it means that the copter can fight a partially injured copter. Instead, and a reason why it's overpowered, it can kill them in 5 shots and pretty much with ease kill all copters except for people who know how to fly in one (not very damn many)
As for your talking about single player. I don't think I've ever once suggested this and I don't know why you went out of your way to type about it. At one point did I ever say anything about copying single player or it to be like single player. Single player is a complete joke.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
[Updated on: Thu, 20 April 2006 05:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197115 is a reply to message #197108] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 11:27 |
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nukchebi0
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| SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 |
A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle.
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Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle...
It must be a sniper rifle.
And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles?
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A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197117 is a reply to message #197087] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 11:30 |
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nukchebi0
Messages: 58
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 0
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| Sniper_De7 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 07:25 |
I'm pretty sure it was said by aircraftkiller or someone else that worked with westwood said that they did it as such. But n00bjets completely lose their argument against Arties and MRLs and any other non-flying unit. There is a unit that's good against artys/mrls - Know what it's called? It's called a tank. Yet you see people n00bjetting them consistantly over and over. Why? Because they get massive points and it takes absolutely NO skill to shoot the tank since it's such a huge target. Like I said, I AGREE that a sniper can be an anti-air unit. The thing that needs changing is the fact that any dipshit can grab a n00bjet and hit a copter. Renegade isn't based around unit A kills unit B always. It's Person A, who has played the game 3times more than Person B (I'm not doing this on purpose mrp) Person A should normally always win, Despite if he uses a tib sydney or a havoc. Why? Because it's a skill for aiming at infantry. However, since it requires NO skill to shooot any vehicles in game (including a copter) Not to mention n00bjets do more damage over time than PIC (dealing with light armoured vehicles - 240 damage with 4 shots, meanwhile it takes 3 shots of a PIC/Rave to do the same thing, but they have to wait for reloading, meaning it takes longer) And besides, the idea of light armoured means that it has less health already. The fact that it needs to take irregular damage from ramjets makes it completely stupid.
Look, i don't know what else I need to tell you. Ramjets easily overpower copters. If you don't know what you're doing in a copter, you can do nothing to stop it. (Your own case is a very example of this, you stop coptering because it's useless) Which is the case for every other person who wants to try out a copter, they get owned so fast with snipers they don't stand a chance. I already admitted that anti-air is generally necessary the thing which fails to be addressed is that just because a unit is anti-whatever, doesn't mean that it should do massive damage to it. I mean if rockets did major damage to copters the people who buy n00bjets wouldn't buy rocket soldiers because that would require an ounce of skill to actually hit a copter. They specifically buy ramjets because it's extremely easy to use and it's overpowered. I don't know how much more clearer I can get.
edit: Also, I think I've already stated that I can usually kill most of the havocs anyways. I also said that anyone *else* who wants to be in a copter doesn't stand a chance against 5 ramjets. Snipers would perfectly be capable of being support against air if they did small amounts of damage, since it means that the copter can fight a partially injured copter. Instead, and a reason why it's overpowered, it can kill them in 5 shots and pretty much with ease kill all copters except for people who know how to fly in one (not very damn many)
As for your talking about single player. I don't think I've ever once suggested this and I don't know why you went out of your way to type about it. At one point did I ever say anything about copying single player or it to be like single player. Single player is a complete joke.
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Okay, I believe you have made your point. Maybe they should have a ramjet limit, like a mine limit. And please, may I have coptering tips.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197119 is a reply to message #197115] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 11:35 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| nukchebi0 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 11:27 |
| SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 |
A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle.
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Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle...
It must be a sniper rifle.
And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles?
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A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid.
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Ah, kind of like the God crate?
"There's this gun, and it can handle vehicles, and infantry, and aircraft, and it has unlimited range, a scope, and super-fast projectiles. Not only that but it has a 4-shot clip."
Is there anything it CAN'T handle? Heavy armor is easy to outrun, even on foot. I suppose the only drawback of the ramjet is that it doesn't harm structures. Otherwise everyone would use them.
Oh wait, they already do...
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197122 is a reply to message #197119] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 11:52 |
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nukchebi0
Messages: 58
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 0
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| Dover wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:35 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 11:27 |
| SpyGuy246 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 13:45 |
| nukchebi0 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:08 |
A ramjet was obviously designed to be more than just a sniper rifle.
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Looks like a sniper rifle...scopes like a sniper rifle...shoots like a sniper rifle...sounds like a sniper rifle...
It must be a sniper rifle.
And since when do fair AA weapons have scopes? And since when are fair AA weapons impossible to outmaneuver, due to their super-fast projectiles?
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A commando gun that can handle vehicles as well as infantry-a hybrid.
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Ah, kind of like the God crate?
"There's this gun, and it can handle vehicles, and infantry, and aircraft, and it has unlimited range, a scope, and super-fast projectiles. Not only that but it has a 4-shot clip."
Is there anything it CAN'T handle? Heavy armor is easy to outrun, even on foot. I suppose the only drawback of the ramjet is that it doesn't harm structures. Otherwise everyone would use them.
Oh wait, they already do...
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What is the God crate, and what about the APC, they are fast and not harmed.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197123 is a reply to message #196782] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 11:54 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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If rocket soldiers' rockets would properly seek and hit moving aircraft, rockets did a little more damage to all types of armour, and Nod soldiers did the same damage as GDI soldiers, then I believe it would be perfectly balanced to reduce n00bjet damage against light armour to exactly that of the 500 sniper's. There wouldn't be problems (or at least no more problems than there are now) with MRLS, Artillery or the orca/apache because there would be RELIABLE rocket soldiers, and if you don't have a HON/Barr (or can't afford a rocket soldier), then standard soldiers -- even the Nod ones -- would do reasonable damage! No misbalance at all, and the game would be more fun for both parties.
The problem though is that even with mods that make rockets seek, they absolutely suck at seeking aircraft and NEVER hit moving aircraft (I know this from the trial on the n00bstories server). If they seeked properly and stood a good chance of hitting, they would be fine for the job.
I don't believe that a single unit in the game should have so much strength. I'm talking about the ramjet here. Without ramjets, aircraft would indeed be more powerful, ***but not with the proposed changes above***. Those chances would balance everything.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197195 is a reply to message #197123] |
Thu, 20 April 2006 19:30 |
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nukchebi0
Messages: 58
Registered: April 2006
Karma: 0
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| flyingfox wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 14:54 |
If rocket soldiers' rockets would properly seek and hit moving aircraft, rockets did a little more damage to all types of armour, and Nod soldiers did the same damage as GDI soldiers, then I believe it would be perfectly balanced to reduce n00bjet damage against light armour to exactly that of the 500 sniper's. There wouldn't be problems (or at least no more problems than there are now) with MRLS, Artillery or the orca/apache because there would be RELIABLE rocket soldiers, and if you don't have a HON/Barr (or can't afford a rocket soldier), then standard soldiers -- even the Nod ones -- would do reasonable damage! No misbalance at all, and the game would be more fun for both parties.
The problem though is that even with mods that make rockets seek, they absolutely suck at seeking aircraft and NEVER hit moving aircraft (I know this from the trial on the n00bstories server). If they seeked properly and stood a good chance of hitting, they would be fine for the job.
I don't believe that a single unit in the game should have so much strength. I'm talking about the ramjet here. Without ramjets, aircraft would indeed be more powerful, ***but not with the proposed changes above***. Those chances would balance everything.
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You should design a game.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197249 is a reply to message #196782] |
Fri, 21 April 2006 09:17 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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The rocket launchers in APB already do track. Secondary fire shoots a rocket that's faster and homes onto targets, but does slightly less damage.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: n00bjet-no [message #197251 is a reply to message #197056] |
Fri, 21 April 2006 09:27 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| mrpirate wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 00:54 |
| havoc9826 wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 00:11 |
| Sniper_De7 wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:16 |
Not really, Westwood just threw it in there to counter copters
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First of all, that's inaccurate. The Ramjet Rifle was in the multiplayer game before the 1.030 patch introduced the flying vehicles to multiplayer a month and a half after the game's release. It was also used by one Black Hand Sniper on top of the Comm Center in the second to last mission of singleplayer. Unless you have evidence that EA was planning, before crunch time, to have Westwood finish user-operated flying vehicles after the game's release, that argument is shot down.
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If I remember correctly Westwood wasn't able to get seeking rockets to work in time for release with the 1.015 or whatever patch added aircraft, so the Ramjet was used as an anti-aircraft gun. Perhaps someone like Aircraftkiller who actually knows what they're talking about can clear this up because my memory is spotty.
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During the flying beta test, Devinoch had told us that n00b cannons were made the principal means of AA fire because WS didn't have the time to make missile equipped units lock on to targets properly. This is where everyone arguing for the n00b cannon is wrong; so please, shut up about it. I've been around since long before all of you were, in all the beta tests. I know exactly what happened, so if you want to tell me that n00b cannon Ramjet Rifles are balanced then you'd better start telling me that the sky is green, because I'm not going to believe either...
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