Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Server owners, or servers in general...
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196185 is a reply to message #192863] |
Fri, 14 April 2006 10:36   |
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Aircraftkiller
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A restaurant is something the client would pay to eat at. The establishment doesn't pay the client to eat there, which is what's happening with game servers: You're paying for people to play there. While you do set up the rules, be aware that having a server is not just a "It's my way or the highway" kind of situation. It's an, almost unspoken, agreement between the server host and players - you agree to let them play under the terms of service (rules) and they agree to follow them or leave somehow, whether it be by banning or kicking.
Without servers, there'd be no way to play the game. Without people playing, the servers are useless. One would think, with Renegade's sorry state of player levels, that servers would do anything they could to attract more players instead of driving them away. This conclusion is supported by the a000352389a nicknames, because there's too many servers and not enough players. With this situation, having more than a few rules is just stupidity. You can run your server however you want, just don't expect us to play in it if you're going to limit what we can do. There's a hell of a lot more servers out there. 
[Updated on: Fri, 14 April 2006 10:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196214 is a reply to message #196185] |
Fri, 14 April 2006 14:14 |
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Goztow
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Goztoe |
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 13:36 |
A restaurant is something the client would pay to eat at. The establishment doesn't pay the client to eat there, which is what's happening with game servers: You're paying for people to play there. While you do set up the rules, be aware that having a server is not just a "It's my way or the highway" kind of situation. It's an, almost unspoken, agreement between the server host and players - you agree to let them play under the terms of service (rules) and they agree to follow them or leave somehow, whether it be by banning or kicking.
Without servers, there'd be no way to play the game. Without people playing, the servers are useless. One would think, with Renegade's sorry state of player levels, that servers would do anything they could to attract more players instead of driving them away. This conclusion is supported by the a000352389a nicknames, because there's too many servers and not enough players. With this situation, having more than a few rules is just stupidity. You can run your server however you want, just don't expect us to play in it if you're going to limit what we can do. There's a hell of a lot more servers out there.
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Renalert or however it's called now doesn't have that problem. Last time I checked there were 2 server with 10 players in it. GG
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196239 is a reply to message #196224] |
Fri, 14 April 2006 17:09 |
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Dave Mason
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| Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 14 April 2006 22:53 |
Wow, that was a brilliant post. I didn't expect to see the next Einstien in these forums... Who would have known where to find you, had you not come to this thread and graced us with your brillance in word form? 
I know someone as intelligent as you would know that a game like Renegade, which doesn't have many players, would have even fewer for a project that isn't known to all of them.
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He's famous for retarded posts that are either completely off the point, retarded, or both.
www.myspace.com/midas
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196478 is a reply to message #192863] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 20:14 |
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Dover
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Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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Allow me to restate myself:
What right do you, as a server owner, have to tell me what I can and cannot do, say, or type?
Just because the server is yours means you can make arbitrary decisions on how your guests should act? Does it mean you have the right to force your values on others? I really don't think so.
Renegade is rated "T" for "Teen", which means nobody under 13 can buy the game, legally.
Movies rated PG-13 have a mountain of "curse words" in them, yet a 13 year old can buy a ticket for one without a problem.
Given that, it's only common sense that you should see cussing in a game rated for 13 year olds. I'm too lazy to look up the exact name, but I believe that's called "The Transity Property Of Logic" or some shit. Don't quote me if I'm wrong.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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[Updated on: Sat, 15 April 2006 20:14] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196484 is a reply to message #192863] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 20:31 |
Berkut
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Registered: July 2005
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Colonel |
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| Dover wrote: |
Just because the server is yours means you can make arbitrary decisions on how your guests should act?
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Correct. | Dover wrote: |
Does it mean you have the right to force your values on others?
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Not entirely, but they will if they want. | Dover wrote: |
Renegade is rated "T" for "Teen", which means nobody under 13 can buy the game, legally.
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Incorrect.
| Dover wrote: |
Don't quote me if I'm wrong.
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Ok
[Updated on: Sat, 15 April 2006 20:35] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196497 is a reply to message #196478] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 21:53 |
msgtpain
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Registered: March 2003
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Colonel |
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| Dover wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 23:14 |
Allow me to restate myself:
What right do you, as a server owner, have to tell me what I can and cannot do, say, or type?
Just because the server is yours means you can make arbitrary decisions on how your guests should act? Does it mean you have the right to force your values on others? I really don't think so.
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You live in a house, right? For all intents and purposes, it is your house.. still with me?
If I walk in the door, and shit on your carpet... would you care? How about spray-painting grafitti on the walls? Or, what if I just followed you around in your house saying "fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker,fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker"
Think you'd get tired of it and tell me to stop?
What if that's just the way I was raised.. I mean, if I shit on my own carpet, spray paint my walls and call myself a fucker all my life... shouldn't I be allowed to do it in your house too?
Still don't get it?
[Updated on: Sat, 15 April 2006 21:54] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196506 is a reply to message #196497] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 23:34 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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| msgtpain wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 21:53 |
| Dover wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 23:14 |
Allow me to restate myself:
What right do you, as a server owner, have to tell me what I can and cannot do, say, or type?
Just because the server is yours means you can make arbitrary decisions on how your guests should act? Does it mean you have the right to force your values on others? I really don't think so.
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You live in a house, right? For all intents and purposes, it is your house.. still with me?
If I walk in the door, and shit on your carpet... would you care? How about spray-painting grafitti on the walls? Or, what if I just followed you around in your house saying "fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker,fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker, fucker"
Think you'd get tired of it and tell me to stop?
What if that's just the way I was raised.. I mean, if I shit on my own carpet, spray paint my walls and call myself a fucker all my life... shouldn't I be allowed to do it in your house too?
Still don't get it?
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Bad comparison. My house isn't open to the public. I don't welcome people I don't know into my house.
If these were private servers, there'd be no problem. But these are public servers I'm talking about. Anybody with a copy of Renegade and an internet connection can log onto the server. On the other hand, to get into my house you'll need a house key, or you'll need me to open the door for you.
What the servers are doing is presenting themselves open to the general public, leaving their doors wide open, and then getting pissed off if somebody doesn't flush. Of course people aren't going to act the way you want them to--they're total strangers who don't know you, and really could care less.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196507 is a reply to message #196484] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 23:41 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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| Berkut wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 20:31 |
| Dover wrote: |
Just because the server is yours means you can make arbitrary decisions on how your guests should act?
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Correct.
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Oh, so they can just say "For the rest of this server's life, no people of Jewish ancestry may play here. In addition, people must pledge their allegiance to Hitler before playing."
I don't think so. My example is excessive, but then where do you draw the line?
The answer: Don't all illegal activities, and allow everything else. Last I checked, cussing is defiantly legal.
| Berkut wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 20:31 |
| Dover wrote: |
Does it mean you have the right to force your values on others?
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Not entirely, but they will if they want.
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See above.
| Berkut wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 20:31 |
| Dover wrote: |
Renegade is rated "T" for "Teen", which means nobody under 13 can buy the game, legally.
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Incorrect.
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I beg to differ, unless it's 13 and younger. But even if it is, are you going to get hung up on technicalities?
You missed the point.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196510 is a reply to message #192863] |
Sat, 15 April 2006 23:57 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
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Location: Monterey, California
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In resturants, you pay for your food. They're capitalistic establishments, whose main function is to make money. For Renegade servers, you DO NOT pay for your admission, they are NOT capitalist establishments, and their main function is NOT to make money. I'm going to assume that their function is to provide entertainment for others. More similar to a theme park. Do you know anybody who's gotten kicked out of a theme park for cussing?
Besides, you're thinking of American resturants. In Bulgaria, restuarants are basically an extension of your dining room, where you pay slightly more for the food and don't have to cook. Not that it matters at all
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196512 is a reply to message #192863] |
Sun, 16 April 2006 00:12 |
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terminator 101
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Yes but you do not pay to come into the restaurant, just like you do not need a key to get into a server. No one says you have to buy and eat something in a restaurant, just like no one says that when you join a server, you have to play. However if you don't, hey will probably kick you from both places eventually.
In both examples, you come in a public place where you can just talk and nothing else for free. In both examples, the owners of the place/server can do whatever they want with you.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 April 2006 00:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196514 is a reply to message #192863] |
Sun, 16 April 2006 00:29 |
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Crimson
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Dover, your inability to understand this still amazes me. The house analogy is PERFECTLY VALID AND ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE. Renegade servers are not open to the public. They are open to people who have purchased the game. As the person who pays the bills, we have the right to say who can and can't play on our servers.
You can argue it all you like, but we have a kick command and we'll use it if we so choose. If you don't like it, complain to EA and see what they tell you.
In fact, on the contrary side, I could run a server that automatically says "FUCK ALL YOU <random racial slur>S" every 10 seconds and gameover'ed the map every 2 minutes. I could run a mod that makes everyone die every 18 seconds. Would you play on that server? No. You choose not to play on a server like that, and we decide we don't want certain players in our servers.
If you don't like it, complain to EA and see what they tell you. After all, the owners of the game itself have the supreme authority, right?
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196689 is a reply to message #196507] |
Sun, 16 April 2006 20:22 |
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PlastoJoe
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| Dover wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 01:41 |
Oh, so they can just say "For the rest of this server's life, no people of Jewish ancestry may play here. In addition, people must pledge their allegiance to Hitler before playing."
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Actually, yes. No one will play there, but that's their deal. I remember reading a n00bstory about someone who was kicked from a game for spelling words correctly.
And as I recall, the game is rated T for "blood, violence" (www.esrb.com), not cursing. You will not find anything worse than "damn" or "crap" or something in the game. And if server owners decide not even to allow those, that's their right.
You don't seem to have a realistic view of free speech rights of Internet users. To be succinct, you don't have many. Right now, if someone wants to censor you and has the ability, they can. Only exception being the [U.S.] government, and then again not all the time.
You may be a fundamentalist atheist if...
Toggle Spoiler
| Blazer wrote on Fri, 04 August 2006 18:53 |
If you wanna be a badass ex-marine law enforcment game programmer college graduate, then you can be! I'm just glad we don't see the other part of you where you join AOL chat rooms as "hotchik69" and cyber with guys while you spank off into a sock and then cry yourself to sleep on your cock-shaped pillow.
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| tzarmind wrote on Sat, 06 January 2007 20:52 |
Not only did you immaturely edit what J_Ball said in your quote. But you fucking got in the irony truck and drove it straight off a cliff.
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| Canadacdn wrote on Tue, 23 October 2007 12:04 |
California burns down every year. I think it's part of nature's cycle.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196695 is a reply to message #196497] |
Sun, 16 April 2006 20:38 |
Berkut
Messages: 508
Registered: July 2005
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| msgtpain wrote: |
You live in a house, right? For all intents and purposes, it is your house.. still with me?
If I walk in the door, and s*** on your carpet... would you care? How about spray-painting grafitti on the walls? Or, what if I just followed you around in your house saying "(f*** x ?)"
Think you'd get tired of it and tell me to stop?
What if that's just the way I was raised.. I mean, if I s*** on my own carpet, spray paint my walls and call myself a f****** all my life... shouldn't I be allowed to do it in your house too?
Still don't get it?
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Heh. If you tried this in my house, my dad would probably blow your head off (along with your other extremeties). Not a smart thing to do when you go to someone's house.
[Updated on: Sun, 16 April 2006 20:39] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196813 is a reply to message #196668] |
Mon, 17 April 2006 21:19 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Berkut wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 18:54 |
Ok, dover, try this concept:
Server owners = Those who own servers.
They have the !ban command, not you.
They will use said !ban command when they feel like it.
That simple enough?
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Berkut, using your logic:
The Military have tanks and guns and bombs.
They could use them when they feel like it to, on whoever they wanted to
Does that make it right? I think not.
My point, in simplest possible terms:
| Dover wrote on Sat, 15 April 2006 23:41 |
...but then where do you draw the line?
The answer: Don't all illegal activities, and allow everything else. Last I checked, cussing is defiantly legal.
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Don't get me wrong, as a server owner, I'm sure you CAN do whatever you want with it. My point is that it's not right.
I don't really care. I love the way n00bstories is run; I have no objections at all.
I suppose it's time for me to get off my soapbox...
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196817 is a reply to message #196813] |
Mon, 17 April 2006 21:37 |
Berkut
Messages: 508
Registered: July 2005
Location: N/A
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Colonel |
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| Dover typed: |
Berkut, using your logic:
The Military have tanks and [yada, yada, yada...].
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Afraid that bit of logic is called life, and no, it [life] isn't right. But we're not dead, so we might as well live, eh?
| Then he typed: |
I suppose it's time for me to get off my soapbox...
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I think it is about time this now 6-page thread died a horrible death.
[Updated on: Tue, 18 April 2006 15:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196818 is a reply to message #192863] |
Mon, 17 April 2006 21:39 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
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General (2 Stars) |
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I call that bit of logic complete and utter crap, but hey, that's just me.
6 page? It's only 3 pages for me...
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196840 is a reply to message #196689] |
Tue, 18 April 2006 03:15 |
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Dave Mason
Messages: 2357
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Location: Shropshire, England
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| SpyGuy246 wrote on Mon, 17 April 2006 04:22 |
| Dover wrote on Sun, 16 April 2006 01:41 |
Oh, so they can just say "For the rest of this server's life, no people of Jewish ancestry may play here. In addition, people must pledge their allegiance to Hitler before playing."
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Actually, yes. No one will play there, but that's their deal. I remember reading a n00bstory about someone who was kicked from a game for spelling words correctly.
And as I recall, the game is rated T for "blood, violence" (www.esrb.com), not cursing. You will not find anything worse than "damn" or "crap" or something in the game. And if server owners decide not even to allow those, that's their right.
You don't seem to have a realistic view of free speech rights of Internet users. To be succinct, you don't have many. Right now, if someone wants to censor you and has the ability, they can. Only exception being the [U.S.] government, and then again not all the time.
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Doesn't Havoc swear in single player at some point?
www.myspace.com/midas
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| Re: Server owners, or servers in general... [message #196890 is a reply to message #192863] |
Tue, 18 April 2006 16:37 |
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Dover
Messages: 2547
Registered: March 2006
Location: Monterey, California
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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You know, now that you meantion it, I'm positive he does. I'm playing through Single Player again for the walkthrough I'm writting. When I come to that point I'll be sure to post it here.
| DarkDemin wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 19:19 |
Remember kids the internet is serious business.
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