| W3D Engine Test [message #18872] |
Mon, 05 May 2003 18:30  |
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Madtone
Messages: 713
Registered: February 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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hey guys...
ok heres the bottom line:
im developing a W3D Engine test map to see if the Renegade Engine can handle more than people give credit for.
i know this has been done before, but not on a proper map.
so once its done it will be a high poly deathmatch map.
here it is so far:
http://modx.renevo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=289
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| W3D Engine Test [message #18896] |
Mon, 05 May 2003 21:05  |
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Dante
Messages: 1039
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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that isn't the issue, 400k poly's is easy to pull off... for a GF4 Ti
once you get into vid cards that people are actually using, you run into problems, i myself have a GF2 MX400, regular Ren maps i get about 60fps on 1024x768 screen, you bump up to a 400k poly map, i will crawl, don't matter if the engine can handle it, my vid card can't, and neither can alot of peoples.
RenEvo
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| W3D Engine Test [message #18901] |
Mon, 05 May 2003 21:44 |
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Madtone
Messages: 713
Registered: February 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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ok guys, here is another thingy blingy.
Ok, im going to run a test, and i need volunteers.
This test will be to see how many polys each well known Gfx card can handle as well as textures.
Here is how i have thought it would go:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stage 1 Testing.
A test map is created without textures(already doing) and then each tester downloads and tests it in a 1 player Lan game, records the FPS and any lag that the tester might be experiencing.
Then the testers get together and play it on a 8 player server, each tester records their FPS and any lag issues they may have.
Stage 2 Testing
The same steps as before but with a textured map.
Stage 3 Testing
A few more test maps are created without textures, but lowering the poly count for each map gradually to try and get the best results for the lower quality video cards.
Same steps as above are taken for each map
Stage 4 Testing
Same as above but with Textured maps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once all the testing has been complete the results are sent to me and then i make 3-4-5 tiers. Each tier will include the poly count of the map that each video card got the best results on.
So say something like this (this is only dummy data!!):
==============================================
---Tier 1 - Polys 400,00---
Nvidia GeForce4 Ti
Nvidia GeForce3
---Tier 2 - Polys 100,000---
Nvidia GeForce1 Ti
Nvidia GeForce74 MX
---Tier 3 - Polys 70,000---
Nvidia GeForce1 Ti
Nvidia GeForce74 MX
---Tier 4 - Polys 10,000---
Nvidia GeForce1 Ti
Nvidia GeForce74 MX
==============================================
Then when a modder creates a map/mod, he give it a tier so that everyone knows weather or not their Gfx card can handle it or not.
Then also when a user goes to download the map/mod, he/she can see the tier, look up the tier on the table and then see if their Gfx card is listed and under what tier so they know if its a waste of time downloading it.
I will make a new post recruiting testers soon.....
***EDIT***
Please also submit any ideas/suggestions you may have!
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| W3D Engine Test [message #18937] |
Tue, 06 May 2003 03:58 |
PiMuRho
Messages: 494
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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OpenGL development has been stalled for quite a while now. DirectX has continued to evolve way past the original specifications - why do you think that the vast majority of game engines use Direct 3D?
Dev Diary
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| W3D Engine Test [message #18988] |
Tue, 06 May 2003 09:44 |
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Halo38
Messages: 955
Registered: February 2003
Location: UK
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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A while back s8mirknk (can't remember his name) got in contact with some guy (chuck i think) and he developed a proof of concept using high poly counts and limited textures and material types for ren 2 i'm trying a simalar concept on a DM i have planned.
Online Portfolio - www.chettle1.com
Renegade projects - Halo38's Den hosted by www.laeubi.de
Creator of : C&C_Arid, C&C_Ancients, C&C_Bio, C&C_Duel Arena
Mod Wars Veteran
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| W3D Engine Test [message #19277] |
Wed, 07 May 2003 17:26 |
Carl
Messages: 165
Registered: March 2003
Location: Washington, US
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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| Aircraftkiller |
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Right...
W3D can handle up to 400,000 polygons, probably more, without any real problems. Materials and textures will cause issues at 400,000, though.
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Hmmm seems your westwood cronies didnt let you in on all the secrets Jonathan.
But you wouldn't care about that now would you.
There are ways to get your good textures on there and keep your fps down. It jsut takes some DEVOTED time. Given the difficulty, and considering i dont even really understand what i have just scratched the surface of, at this point posting it here would be of no use. however if you want to play with it yourself ack, let me know and i will fill you in.
Then again, your more about being popular, not pleasant.
| Aircraftkiller |
What possibilities? That's elaborate crap that isn't needed in Renegade.
Everyone has to make maps that are under a certain polygonal limit. Most people have a decent gaming rig, and if you're making maps for anyone but them... You might as well not even bother making maps for Renegade.
You don't need that much detail in Renegade... There is absolutely, truly, no need for it.
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The sheer narrow-mindedness displayed in this statement is appalling.
What possibilities?
Well, lets say, vast underground maze complexes.not just an unrealistic squar tube. i dont care what you say, but it makes a difference running through a rocky tunnel. It is what we like to call an effect of realism.
Imagine being able to have TRUE grass blades on your map. Talk about an on-edge map. Running around in tall grass where if someone crouches you cant see them. Now that ack is something i have seen MANY games, such as delta-force do extremely well. And the effect it adds to gameplay is insumountable. something so simple, yet so profound in terms of gameplay.
To say that no one needs and/or wants higher poly maps is just like IBM saying people dont need computers in their home.
y0
http://www.dead6.net
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| W3D Engine Test [message #19279] |
Wed, 07 May 2003 17:37 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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Please shut up... You're posting my name like you actually know me, and you know jack shit.
Westwood cronies? I speak with people who *made this engine and designed things for it* unlike yourself. So who's right here?
It probably isn't you. Why? You said "You can get your good looking textures blah blah blah..."
I said nothing about the way the textures look. That has nothing to do with it. Each texture is the same regardless... There's no difference between a no-alpha 128x128 texture and another no-alpha 128. They're the same size, they take the same amount of time to load, and they also take the same amount of processing power.
Multiple materials, e.g. what you get when applying a material to an object in Max, will slow down the game engine. It has to process more than just the graduation of light across the verts, it also has to process the way the materials affect the light on the verts and any associated textures belonging to the material.
The textures affect it even more so. 1024x1024 textures will tear the engine apart and bring a GF4 to its knees...
But no, don't listen to me. I don't know anything at all, but you do. After all, you're just scratching the surface of the engine, aren't you? That's how you know *so very much* about W3D and its iterations.
:rolleyes:
Wow, great edit after I posted... Not.
Guess what? You don't *need* polygons to create grass blades, you fucking retard. You can create textures to make foliage in maps. It isn't difficult at all. Have you seen Beach? River Canyon? Both make use of grass that allows you to hide, yet the way the textures are used, they do not strain the engine... Why? Because I know what I'm doing with the engine.
No one needs high-polygon maps. Pi can attest to that... What use are they? We're not working on renders of game levels. We're working on game levels. Guess what? Every game level has low polygonal usage. That's what you have to accept and remember when making maps, because what will you do when you have your pretty little map give people four frames a second because the buildings (About 10,000 polygons and more by themselves), vehicles (Sixteen vehicles is about 12,000 polygons) and players (A full 32 player game has about 16,000 polygons worth of players) and weapons (First person and third amount to about 7,000 polygons) will make for incredibly shitty framerates. Unless you've magically figured out how to make vis occlude everything without actually rendering more than it should... You're not going to get anything about 4-10 FPS.
So good luck wanting high-polygon maps, except most people with a decent gaming computer cannot even pull off more than 45 FPS on a 30,000 polygon map. Factor in the gameplay elements and special effects, and you've got a receipe for disaster.
But of course, I don't know what I'm talking about.
:rolleyes:
[Updated on: Wed, 07 May 2003 17:44] Report message to a moderator |
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| W3D Engine Test [message #19280] |
Wed, 07 May 2003 17:44 |
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Madtone
Messages: 713
Registered: February 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Carl |
| Aircraftkiller |
...
Right...
W3D can handle up to 400,000 polygons, probably more, without any real problems. Materials and textures will cause issues at 400,000, though.
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Hmmm seems your westwood cronies didnt let you in on all the secrets Jonathan.
But you wouldn't care about that now would you.
There are ways to get your good textures on there and keep your fps down. It jsut takes some DEVOTED time. Given the difficulty, and considering i dont even really understand what i have just scratched the surface of, at this point posting it here would be of no use. however if you want to play with it yourself ack, let me know and i will fill you in.
Then again, your more about being popular, not pleasant.
| Aircraftkiller |
What possibilities? That's elaborate crap that isn't needed in Renegade.
Everyone has to make maps that are under a certain polygonal limit. Most people have a decent gaming rig, and if you're making maps for anyone but them... You might as well not even bother making maps for Renegade.
You don't need that much detail in Renegade... There is absolutely, truly, no need for it.
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The sheer narrow-mindedness displayed in this statement is appalling.
What possibilities?
Well, lets say, vast underground maze complexes.not just an unrealistic squar tube. i dont care what you say, but it makes a difference running through a rocky tunnel. It is what we like to call an effect of realism.
Imagine being able to have TRUE grass blades on your map. Talk about an on-edge map. Running around in tall grass where if someone crouches you cant see them. Now that ack is something i have seen MANY games, such as delta-force do extremely well. And the effect it adds to gameplay is insumountable. something so simple, yet so profound in terms of gameplay.
To say that no one needs and/or wants higher poly maps is just like IBM saying people dont need computers in their home.
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Thanks you, im very happy to hear someone also see the possibilitys!!
ok guys i have uploaded the .3ds of the poly test map, im just getting someone to convert it into a playble map.
if you wanna see a render:
http://modx.renevo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=296
like i said "Test Map" so yeha it will be basic!
will tell you when its done!
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| W3D Engine Test [message #19282] |
Wed, 07 May 2003 17:46 |
Carl
Messages: 165
Registered: March 2003
Location: Washington, US
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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again ack your idiocy never ceases to amaze me. First of all it has nothign to do with multimaterials in max. Im not stupid enough to thing that those dont kill a GF4. And i wasnt referring to the resolution of textures either. And when i was talking about your textures, i was reffering to your badly mapped textures on your maps.
y0
http://www.dead6.net
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| W3D Engine Test [message #19284] |
Wed, 07 May 2003 17:53 |
Carl
Messages: 165
Registered: March 2003
Location: Washington, US
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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okay you just made a complete ass of yourself. i never said they didnt have resolution and i never said they werent materials. i said they werent MULTImaterials and i said the resolution had nothing to do with what i was talking about.
And i made no complaints about the stock WS textures. I made complaints about the way you map them.
And i never claimed to be the texture god. although i do admit, i am better than you. Nothing to show for it? im not exactly a skilled 3d modeler. Send me a mesh and i will texture the hell out of it. knock your socks off.
y0
http://www.dead6.net
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