Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Renegade Website
| Re: Renegade Website [message #190675 is a reply to message #190291] |
Tue, 21 February 2006 05:33   |
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Goztow
Messages: 9731
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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NEWSFLASH: we just started with this website.
Other news: this is the website as Westwood put it up in 2002. Ofcourse it gives problems and it is badly scripted for firefox which didn't exist or which existed in another form that was hardly used.
The real question is: do we want to keep the original with these problems or make a new one which looks like it but will never be 100 % the same.
I'm going to clean up the code, but we don't have teh flash file and the swf is protected against opening with Flash. So IMO you can already forget about modifying the flash to make it work. Someone could redo from scratch but it will never be the same, everyone knows that.
Now this is clear, we will ask for help and let's start with this. If anyone has a good SWF 2 FLA (flash decompiler), full version (the demo doesn't do the trick) then please do PM me and/or renardin6. Maybe we can then at least get a flash-file which we can modify slightly so maybe we get a chance to make it work in Firefox.
Don't forget this whole thing is also copyrighted. EA may give permission to use it be to change files? Might be another problem...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190695 is a reply to message #190675] |
Tue, 21 February 2006 11:13 |
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Dave Mason
Messages: 2357
Registered: April 2004
Location: Shropshire, England
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| Goztow wrote on Tue, 21 February 2006 12:33 |
NEWSFLASH: we just started with this website.
Other news: this is the website as Westwood put it up in 2002. Ofcourse it gives problems and it is badly scripted for firefox which didn't exist or which existed in another form that was hardly used.
The real question is: do we want to keep the original with these problems or make a new one which looks like it but will never be 100 % the same.
I'm going to clean up the code, but we don't have teh flash file and the swf is protected against opening with Flash. So IMO you can already forget about modifying the flash to make it work. Someone could redo from scratch but it will never be the same, everyone knows that.
Now this is clear, we will ask for help and let's start with this. If anyone has a good SWF 2 FLA (flash decompiler), full version (the demo doesn't do the trick) then please do PM me and/or renardin6. Maybe we can then at least get a flash-file which we can modify slightly so maybe we get a chance to make it work in Firefox.
Don't forget this whole thing is also copyrighted. EA may give permission to use it be to change files? Might be another problem...
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Stop being such an arrogant little shit. Light was simply pointing out problems not slating the website.
www.myspace.com/midas
[Updated on: Tue, 21 February 2006 11:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190717 is a reply to message #190291] |
Tue, 21 February 2006 15:52 |
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thx for the submission, we need someone who is a genius of flash and could crack and make it work online and not only offline.
I sent the files to Silent_Kane. I am sure he will find a way.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190729 is a reply to message #190291] |
Tue, 21 February 2006 18:54 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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I mention FUDAPI because it will ensure compatibility through database changes and upgrades over time. If you're just querying the database it's POSSIBLE that one day it could break.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190757 is a reply to message #190750] |
Wed, 22 February 2006 02:35 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Goztow wrote on Wed, 22 February 2006 20:48 |
Another question: does anyone think it's useful to replace the javascript with php that does the same thing?
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Server-side is always better than client side.
[Updated on: Wed, 22 February 2006 02:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190846 is a reply to message #190816] |
Wed, 22 February 2006 19:35 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
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Colonel |
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light, I completely disagree with you on about 6 different levels. Today's Web servers can handle any form or request you send them, along with thousands of others simultaneously; there is absolutely no reason to script something client side to "take the load off the server". The primary reason for client side validation is to ensure that the client is doing its job.. the client is half of the equation in a client/server environment, we don't live in the era of dumb terminals anymore. There is no reason that a client can't take care of its own information: it can display it, it can validate it, it can tell you when you haven't completed something or completed it incorrectly. If you want to be proactive in ensuring data integrity, it's the clients responsibility to make sure that they're only sending in what the server expects to see.
Your thinking is along the same lines as developers in the late 1990's - early 2000's: "We have to make sure that we don't exclude anyone in the world that may want to view our Web page." You know what? technology expands, and the primary reason is because those same users expect to see something interesting, and something that will keep them coming back. We're no longer creating pages which fit in a 640x480 window so our Web TV friends can see it too.. if they're using Web TV: fuck'em. I'm not going to limit my creativity to make sure the 0.15% of the population can see my page the same way everyone else sees it.
The browser makers have worked hard to perfect the DOM, to make it easy to access and manipulate data on the client side easily.. but you know what? You have to use JavaScript right along with it.. you can't just go "poof", and it's definately poor design to make a server call just to change something on your page.
Developers are working hard to make it easy for you and I to make dynamic, interactive Web sites which keep our viewers coming back for more. If you don't intend on embracing that technology, you might as well set yourself up a BBS; or is that before your time?
[Updated on: Wed, 22 February 2006 19:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190848 is a reply to message #190846] |
Wed, 22 February 2006 20:44 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
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Colonel |
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| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
light, I completely disagree with you on about 6 different levels. Today's Web servers can handle any form or request you send them, along with thousands of others simultaneously; there is absolutely no reason to script something client side to "take the load off the server".
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I don't have any stats to back up my opinion on that, so I won't argue it.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
The primary reason for client side validation is to ensure that the client is doing its job.. the client is half of the equation in a client/server environment, we don't live in the era of dumb terminals anymore.
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We are moving back that way, look at Citrix or other systems that use virtualisation. You centralise the maintenance to the servers. It's one way to do it.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
There is no reason that a client can't take care of its own information: it can display it, it can validate it, it can tell you when you haven't completed something or completed it incorrectly. If you want to be proactive in ensuring data integrity, it's the clients responsibility to make sure that they're only sending in what the server expects to see.
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And clients without Javascript? Clients who disable it? Clients without Flash? You alienate them, or force them to use the medium you choose.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
Your thinking is along the same lines as developers in the late 1990's - early 2000's: "We have to make sure that we don't exclude anyone in the world that may want to view our Web page."
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People still believe that today. I work in an organistion that believes that exact statement. Where I live dial-up is still rife, so are 800x600 screens. I don't expect everyone to have Broadband and a 1204+ to experience my site proerly.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
You know what? technology expands, and the primary reason is because those same users expect to see something interesting, and something that will keep them coming back. We're no longer creating pages which fit in a 640x480 window so our Web TV friends can see it too.. if they're using Web TV: ****'em. I'm not going to limit my creativity to make sure the 0.15% of the population can see my page the same way everyone else sees it.
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No, but i make 800x600 sites. You can get very creative with CSS I think.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
The browser makers have worked hard to perfect the DOM, to make it easy to access and manipulate data on the client side easily.. but you know what? You have to use JavaScript right along with it.. you can't just go "poof", and it's definately poor design to make a server call just to change something on your page.
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Javascript can definately help validation, but if a client doesn't have JS what do you do?
I know companies that make JS that will gracefully degrade to work in IE4.
Besides, Flash games etc. are fine, but using flash for the navigation, and not having a fallback can lose you the 50 year old customer who has IE5, Windows 98SE and doesn't know how to install flash.
| msgtpain wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 15:35 |
Developers are working hard to make it easy for you and I to make dynamic, interactive Web sites which keep our viewers coming back for more. If you don't intend on embracing that technology, you might as well set yourself up a BBS; or is that before your time?
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Sounds like the .NET system to me. It can be all fancy and flash, and there are some great flash-based sites out there, but I prefer fast, clean HTML to flash which i have to wait to load. (256/128k broadband, it's very common over here).
Bottom line, we have 2 different view of how the web should look. Web 2.0 is fine, but it's not for me.
You of course have right of reply. If you would like to open a new thread, save confusing this topic, I am interested to see how this plays out. (If you make a new topic I will edit out this post and make it there)
[Updated on: Wed, 22 February 2006 20:45] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190849 is a reply to message #190848] |
Wed, 22 February 2006 20:48 |
msgtpain
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Why make a new post? you've given them all your opinions as to why they should code the site one way, I've given you all mine as to why they should let their creativity flow. We're both still talking about the Web page this thread was created for.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190867 is a reply to message #190291] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 00:41 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9731
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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The website's design WILL NOT CHANGE. It's a choice that was made at the very start. The only thing that will change is the coding and actually making it work as good as possible. However, I still doubt that we'll be able to make the Flash work in Firefox as we simply do not have the source file (.fla). So there could possibly be made a Firefox version, how much I myself would hate to see that happen because I mainly agree with Light on this subject. Make it nice but make it work for as many persons as possible.
So the work on this site is rather technical than redesign.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190871 is a reply to message #190291] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 01:47 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
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Well, I don't think it would be entirely fatal to just use images for the links using the same font as the Flash file. We lose the 'cool' cursor but it's a sacrifice I don't see as being a big deal.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190876 is a reply to message #190291] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 02:41 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
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Colonel |
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I think I could get pretty close to that left nav with pure CSS and the background image.
The left down-arrows should be fine to add, and you could have a "nav" div, with ul li and ul ul li styles applied to them.
I can try it once I get back to uni (next week, busy this weekend), but there is no point me putting in the work if you won't use it.
As for the cursor, can it be done in Javascript?
[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2006 02:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190909 is a reply to message #190291] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 10:37 |
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Ok goz, make me the index.html or php (whatever) ready with all files needed and comments, and from 03 march to 16 march, I am on vacancy, I will then finish the whole site. Just make the first page ready with the good code, I will handle the rest.
Light, go with your menu, just make is tool as close as possible to the one we had for the old website and I will add or change the categories. So if you make one title + one subtitle,
I can handle the rest. I have the whole backup.
For the flash, Silent_Kane is the last hope.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2006 10:43] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190928 is a reply to message #190882] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 13:58 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
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Colonel |
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| Goztow wrote on Thu, 23 February 2006 23:39 |
I think we could just have the background and put small table columns on it that change color when hovering (CSS). Light, maybe you can add me in MSN and if I haven't gotten to it by next week yet, we can contact eachother  . All help/ideas are welcome.
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I don't give out my MSN freely, but you can have my GTalk, or Gizmo ID. Or find me on irc.fnfall.com.
As for the tables, whilst it would work, strictly speaking, tales are for tabular data, they aren't the best way to do layout. I will try without them, see how well I can get it to work.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190952 is a reply to message #190291] |
Thu, 23 February 2006 17:59 |
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kopaka649
Messages: 476
Registered: March 2003
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Commander |
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Hmm. I decompiled it, and there doesnt seem to be problems at first glance. Don't have time to have a good look at it, plus i'm a bit rusty on actionscripy. The actual load command is 'loadVariablesNum("navinit.txt ", 0);', would the spaces mess it up?
edit: theres a load of spaces between navinit.txt and ", 0);', but it doesn't show.
It probably is messed up elsewhere, because it does look like its accesing the variables loaded onto level 0. The actual bug might be in the actual drawing part (frame 6)
[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2006 18:06] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190988 is a reply to message #190291] |
Fri, 24 February 2006 00:40 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9731
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I took a day off wednesday to finish what I want to do with it. You'll get the front page and an inside page if you like. It could be that we want some inside pages.
I just want to split the file into several files which will make it much easier to edit content later on.
This takes time if we want to do it correctly so please don't hurry things . You should be able to get what you asked by the 3th though.
Kpoka, could you get a closer look into the actionscript? I also decompiled it but I don't know anything about actionscripts  .
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Fri, 24 February 2006 00:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190989 is a reply to message #190291] |
Fri, 24 February 2006 00:43 |
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yeah, possible but can you explain this:
When I launch the website with the flash menu from my HDD (so offline), it works on IE, Firefox 1.5 & Opera 8.52.
So why is it f*cked online? Frame 6 you say? Well if someone can go deeper in the code or redo the whole first page using the flash menu, then we could have maybe the bug resolved.
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| Re: Renegade Website [message #190991 is a reply to message #190989] |
Fri, 24 February 2006 00:46 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9731
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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| Renardin6 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 02:43 |
yeah, possible but can you explain this:
When I launch the website with the flash menu from my HDD (so offline), it works on IE, Firefox 1.5 & Opera 8.52.
So why is it f*cked online? Frame 6 you say? Well if someone can go deeper in the code or redo the whole first page using the flash menu, then we could have maybe the bug resolved.
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I noticed it keeps waiting for a reply of the website for a long time. This makes me think that Firefox doesn't like the link to the file once it is online. Maybe if we could change the link in stead of xxx.txt to the complete adress http://www.xxx.com/xxx.txt ? Just guessing.
Strange thing, when I put it on my local website (localhost) it also loads the flash file without problems.
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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