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My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #185945] Mon, 16 January 2006 15:42 Go to next message
Dr. Lithius
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Colonel
Excuse the disorganization in this topic. Talking about this in full-swing tends to throw my sense of organization askew. That aside, let's get into why I hate Clans! ^^

In my opinion, I think Clans are stupid, obnoxious, pointless "prick-waving dick-fights," to paraphrase George Carlin. Or, if you wanna be less vulgar about it, a great deal of the time the matter turns into something akin to a "My Dad can beat up your Dad!" matter, or in some cases, gang war style. Two clans start going at it for no apparent reason, right in the middle of nowhere(say...a forum), disrupting the peace and tranquility of the place and ruining things for passersby.
In addition, most Clans that I've seen don't become Clans for the sheer fun of it, no sir. They habitually do so to show "superiority" in the field of battle; show that, while they may not have any real lives, they sure can mop up the virtual planes of existence with the blood of their enemies! *tch* Reeeeal useful skill, right? Bragging rights. Whee.
Even worse are these apparent "theme clans". Name themes, like BURGER Clan and {CiA} Clan.(While amusing in theory, what's the effing point?) Elitist clans like XilClan. Weaponry theme Clans -- Sniper's Rifle, Minigun, etc. -- like 90% of the Clans out there. Or the worse... Clans who are full of people solely out to ruin the game for the rest of us by hacking, cheating, and just plain being asshats...such as myg0t.(Yes, I know that's hypocritical considering I find the playbacks hilarious, but looking at it from the player's point of view...)

Clans are nothing but festering cesspools of the worst kinds of useless scum. It is rare, very rare, to find a Clan which contains nice, polite, courtious people who not only play for the sake of playing, but aren't elitist cock-mongers who have no interest in "making friends" and "entertaining themselves". No, the kinds of people you usually meet in Clans are the type of people who do critical damage to their keyboards when they get shot in the head in Counter-Strike: Source and tape the Voice Chat key down so you can hear their excruciated screams of fury and pissiness.
I will admit this. Occasionally... Just occasionally... You'll find some Clan out there who's actually just "a group of friends from the same town," or "a bunch of people randomly gathered from the Internet" who don't make it a priority to screw with people. This doesn't happen often enough to make up for the fact that a huge chunk of all Clans are useless, pointless, and full of social outcasts who would just as soon blow up their school than try and get a real life. And again, sometimes it's not their fault. Sometimes fate just conspires against them and they become the absolute and utter geeks they are. I'm very thankful I, despite my obvious mental deficiencies, did not turn out the way a good chunk of all Clan Mates have.

In summation, I effing hate Clans. I don't care that most of them could destroy me with a thought... I play for fun. However, when I go into a Clan Server and find Clanmates all on one side, not only dominating, but actually taking the time to publicly humiliate their opponents(say...in Tribes Football), well... That, friends, is where I draw the line.
This is why I do what I do. This is why you usually find me nay-saying 99% of the clans out there. This is why I refuse to join any clan.(Not that I've ever been offered, mind you. Remember? "Play for fun, not for keeps"?)

Expecting flames a'plenty,
"Dr. Styringer J. Lithius"

[Updated on: Mon, 16 January 2006 15:43]

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #185972 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 16 January 2006 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NukeIt15 is currently offline  NukeIt15
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I agree with most of that, I think. Most folks make clans and turn the game into a competition that they just HAVE to be the very very best at...and forget how to have fun in the process. It turns into a crazy imitation of actual warfare, to the such an extent that some people will hack rival clans' webpages just to hinder the opposition. Those would be the same people who find the one really, truly overpowered weapon/vehicle/tactic in the game and exploit the bloody hell out of it until the game is ruined for everyone else.

For instance, today I ran across a BF2 server where very nearly every member of the clan running the server was n00b-tubing (that is, using the grenade launcher at close range while jumping so as to exploit the bug which makes people invinceable while jumping) or using some other variation on the jump-exploit. While I've seen more than plenty independents doing crap like that, it gets BAD when it gets organized. The problem is that the clans that do crap like that practically have it written into their rules; it amounts to organized cheating (which, by the way, SUCKS BALLS).

Elitists I couldn't care less about, unless they're RUNNING the server I'm playing in. In that case, they tend to shut down the game whenever they start losing (another really, really underhanded way to jack up your score; lots of wins and no losses). However, since I'm not interested in elitist clans, they aren't my problem. I know exactly how good I am and with what; who I associate with doesn't define my status in the game. I'm happy with that, and I'm happy with the fact that there are lots of people who are better at any particular game than I will ever be. Every time I hear someone comment on how badly they could kick my ass, my usual response is to try to kick theirs and see what happens. Smile

Honestly, if someone had come up to me four years ago and asked if I'd ever consider joining a clan, my answer would have been an emphatic NO for exactly the resons you stated. I can remember saying several times to several people that I thought clans were rediculous, and that I wouldn't be caught dead in one. However, when I found a game (Starsiege) where I started playing with the same group of people on a regular basis...well, when a few of the friends I made invited me to join a squad they had formed, I said yes. I'm glad I did, too, and I wouldn't go back- then again, I found one of the small number of generally exceptional clans, not one of the large number of generally retarded and obnoxious ones. There ARE good clans out there, and it really is a blast to have a group of friends that you can count on to back you up in a game. Much more fun than lone-wolfing around a map all game waiting for some ally to wander by and support you (then watch them make off with your ride instead).

I can't even remember the last time my group got in a serious fight with another clan...as a matter of principle, we don't bother. It only turns a friendly game into a bloodthirsty competition. Hell, for the longest time in BF1942, we'd just set up a server, lock it, and blow the crap out of each other for a few hours (what most clans call "practice") just for the hell of it. It's fun to do that. It's more fun to play against friends than strangers, I say- then you can laugh about getting blasted to pieces instead of getting all frustrated (and, knowing who you're fighting, you can be secure in the knowledge that they aren't cheating, which makes it more fun).

The best advice, IMHO, if you can't find a good clan in the game you're playing- find a group of people who share your views and stick around them. Basically, if you can't FIND a good clan, MAKE one. There are plenty of people out there who'd love to join one just to have fun, but don't because they can't find a clan interested in doing that.


"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #185977 is a reply to message #185972] Mon, 16 January 2006 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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NukeIt15 wrote on Mon, 16 January 2006 18:48



The best advice, IMHO, if you can't find a good clan in the game you're playing- find a group of people who share your views and stick around them. Basically, if you can't FIND a good clan, MAKE one. There are plenty of people out there who'd love to join one just to have fun, but don't because they can't find a clan interested in doing that.


I did that. Best decision I made in Renegade. GDE wasn't concerned with being the best while I was there, it was about fun.


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #186002 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 16 January 2006 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony_old is currently offline  Spoony_old
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I don't think any of you really have any experience of what a true clan is.

It's about clan games. Anything else is just icing on the cake... if they play in public servers or have arguments on forums, whatever. That is not what a true clan is about, whether a clan does it or not.

As for clan games themselves, the majority of REAL clans play them for the same reason you say you don't: for fun. Gaming's more fun when it's competitive, it's a simple fact. Why do you think everyone prefers winning to losing? It doesn't make you "obsessed" with winning, but it's still a more enjoyable gaming experience than losing.


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #186015 is a reply to message #185945] Tue, 17 January 2006 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Goztow is currently offline  Goztow
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This is why we like to be referred to as a community. It's correct though that competitive games are more fun. Not as in humiliate, insult, ... but as in play together, winning or loosing together.

It's a pity that the clans like you describe them give all 'clans' out there a bad name. I know quite a lot that are still the sort of communities like you describe them at the end!

It's all about the magic of persons who have the same ideas coming together to play a game and have fun. It's about the PERSONS really, not even about the games. I don't know why else I would have done a 5 hour trip to a foreign country to meet up with some of these people otherwise. Wink


You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord

[Updated on: Tue, 17 January 2006 00:56]

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #186051 is a reply to message #185945] Tue, 17 January 2006 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Mason is currently offline  Dave Mason
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I'm in a clan for the fun, I don't play for rank, or clan wars. I enjoy playing and socialising with the people in the clan.

Is that really so bad?


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #186059 is a reply to message #185945] Tue, 17 January 2006 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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A clan is what you want it to be. Some play for clan wars, others to hang out with their buds.

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #186093 is a reply to message #185945] Tue, 17 January 2006 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NukeIt15 is currently offline  NukeIt15
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Spoony

Gaming's more fun when it's competitive, it's a personal preference.


Fixed.

No, see, there are plenty of folks who couldn't give less than half a rat's ass about how they stack up vs. everyone else in the world, and they just want to play with people who share that view. You can have your competition, have fun with it. I don't know about anyone else, I feel about as good about losing as I do winning- as long as the fight was fair. A "clan" to me is just a group of friends who like to play games together as a team.


"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #187423 is a reply to message #185945] Fri, 27 January 2006 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ghost is currently offline  ghost
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Cant we all just get along?

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #187424 is a reply to message #185945] Fri, 27 January 2006 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Lithius
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Edit: I think I have literacy problems. Post revoked!

[Updated on: Fri, 27 January 2006 18:44]

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #187427 is a reply to message #185945] Fri, 27 January 2006 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PaRaDoX is currently offline  PaRaDoX
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A clan is jest a bunch of people or m8's who like to play organized games... but on the other hand.... some clans are about proving how big there e-penis is

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Moee wrote on Wed, 31 May 2006 00:10

U 2 bumb as a pot

Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #187498 is a reply to message #185945] Sat, 28 January 2006 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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current CW ranking

1 FE (90-70) 7,085 pt
2 .H2O. (139-77) 7,079 pt
3 .CD. (106-148) 6,863 pt
4 SONIC (44-44) 6,555 pt
5 HELLO (88-75) 6,546 pt
6 POEPOE (22-15) 3,422 pt
7 BYOB (64-44) 3,191 pt
8 BP (62-73) 2,206 pt

1 GoTWhisKeY (129-58) 8,080 pt
2 IsItInYou (134-71) 8,033 pt
3 critical (94-120) 7,797 pt
4 Clearsh0t (86-65) 6,583 pt
5 S0NiCZER0 (39-28) 6,079 pt
6 killazluv (68-47) 5,267 pt
7 negro (28-37) 3,571 pt
8 luckyfckr (43-32) 3,334 pt
9 mafia (28-31) 3,276 pt
10 H2ORNY (32-18) 3,241 pt

lot of games this month, no? But contrary to popular opinion, none of the above clans play those cws just to prove how leet they are... it's just clanwars are so much more fun than public servers. Level of competition is higher, it isn't so ridiculously easy to win them as your average public server full of noobs is... you actually need skill, strategy and teamwork to win (compared to public servers where it's perfectly possible for one person to win a 30 player game singlehandedly Sarcasm ) and it's a lot more fun when there's a league for it.


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188143 is a reply to message #185945] Wed, 01 February 2006 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PointlessAmbler is currently offline  PointlessAmbler
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Plus, clans often host public servers to support their games of choice.

Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188422 is a reply to message #185945] Sat, 04 February 2006 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
[NE]Fobby[GEN]
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I think clans are a good aspect in gaming...

There are a lot of really cocky clans out there, I understand that, but when you look more deeply into the issue, Clans actually help keeping games alive.

Firstly, Clans contribute to making large Public servers in this game. UNRULES, [NE] Public Warzone, -BiO-Logical Warfare, for example are popular servers, and are hosted by clans. Many clans have their own servers because a group of people can contribute money to making one. Without clan-hosted Public Servers, there wouldn't be enough servers to hold a lot of people.

Secondly, Clans contribute to public gaming because they make people better. On average, someone who has been in a clan is better than someone who hasn't. This is simply because in a group experience, you learn many different tips and strategies from other people, as well as going to types of trainings and gatherings. Also, when battling in a funwar, you work extensively with your team in order to win.

Thirdly, Clans contribute in making the game last longer. If people are in a good clan with good buddies, they are more likely to play the game for a longer period of time in order to stay with the same people, routines, etc. Without clans, most people would become too independant, and get tired of the game quicker.

Fourthly, Clans contribute by making the game more competitives. Not only do extreme clan wars full of great teamplayers go on every single day, but clan members and leaders can also contribute to leading a team in a public game. After all, Renegade is all about teamplay. Without it, you cannot win the game.

The main reason I'm in a clan is because I want to have fun with some good buddies, rather than "having fun" by myself. It's a lot more fun if you know the people you're playing with.


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188458 is a reply to message #185945] Sat, 04 February 2006 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Lithius
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Alright, y'all've got me on the aspect that Clans, whether they're asinine or not, do often times buy dedicated servers...which are nine times out of ten...publically accessable. But yeah...
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188608 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 06 February 2006 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dead6re is currently offline  dead6re
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Clans in Renegade aren't that good, but guilds which are like clans on World of warcraft, Warcraft 3 I have found to be very good.

Let all your wishes be granted except one, so you will still have something to strieve for.
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188617 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 06 February 2006 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jecht is currently offline  Jecht
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MMORPG's don't take skill. They just take an inane amount of time and a little strategy if you're PvPing.

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[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2006 10:19]

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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188662 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 06 February 2006 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bgment is currently offline  bgment
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I agree with [NE]Fobby[GEN], there are many good clans which are even nice enough to host public dedicated servers.

Though i must admit that like Dr. Lithius i don't like clans very much. For example: The first "good clan" i met (in real life) on a lan consisted of a bunch of assholes - real assholes which didn't even know the meaning of fun!
But even before i met them i "hated" clans since they destroyed the whole fun in playing c-s online (well them and the noobs which didn't think it was necessary to configure the keys or read the manual before joining a game). Camping was never such an big issue, until those clan-cocks thought they needed to make the game more competitive and flood the chat with insults and messages how 1337 they are.
On the other hand there were clans since the beginning of c-s and playing with them was real fun (good old C-S beta 2 Satisfied).

Perhaps clans should be classified in 3 (or more) Groups:
1. TEH 1337 clans (a.k.a. assholes)
2. Fun & Tournament clans (clans who balance teams and try to make the game difficult for both sides in all non-tournament games)
3. Fun only clans

I've one last thing to add (for those who think winning is important): I prefer losing against a team of equal strength to winning against a weak enemy!


englis is a complicatde sandwich language
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188666 is a reply to message #185945] Mon, 06 February 2006 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrpirate is currently offline  mrpirate
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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188758 is a reply to message #188662] Tue, 07 February 2006 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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bgment wrote on Mon, 06 February 2006 17:50

Perhaps clans should be classified in 3 (or more) Groups:
1. TEH 1337 clans (a.k.a. assholes)
2. Fun & Tournament clans (clans who balance teams and try to make the game difficult for both sides in all non-tournament games)
3. Fun only clans

how about
4. clans who recognise the importance of TEAMWORK in Renegade and find that top-level clanwars are the only place to truly find said teamwork (if you're gonna say public servers involve teamwork then, lol)


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #188783 is a reply to message #185945] Tue, 07 February 2006 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NukeIt15 is currently offline  NukeIt15
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Finding "teamwork" in pubs is, indeed, quite difficult. More often than not, you have to make your own teamwork- for example, following a tank out into the field and repairing it, or grabbing a tech and jumping in the APC with someone who you know is going to go attack. Nothing organized, however, aside from a few rare cases- and those cases usually involve a number of people who either know each other somewhat well, or a bunch of clan-trained people (even if they're from different clans) on the same team. People like to lone-wolf as independents, and that's just the way of it.

I've never spent quite enough time with Ren to get into any Ren clans; I'm just not on enough to get involved with them for this particular game. Clans are not once-in-a-while affairs; when you're around you're expected to be playing the same game as your fellow members. I spend a lot more time reading these forums, on average, than I do actually playing the game.


"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine

Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #189302 is a reply to message #188783] Thu, 09 February 2006 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Renerage is currently offline  Renerage
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Oh come on, whats wrong with a bunch of skilled players banding together to pwn major ass?
Hmm?


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #189346 is a reply to message #188783] Fri, 10 February 2006 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dr. Lithius
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NukeIt15 wrote on Tue, 07 February 2006 14:37

Finding "teamwork" in pubs is, indeed, quite difficult.
Six words for ya...

Seven. Flame. Tank. Rush. On. Hourglass.

This is what happened to us on n00bstories' server just a couple hours ago. We did not survive.
Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #189622 is a reply to message #185945] Sun, 12 February 2006 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Spoony is currently offline  Spoony
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it only takes two or three meds to completely demolish that rush... people think it's a good strategy but it only works against a completely disorganised opponent, therefore it doesn't prove teamwork when it's pulled off.

True "teamwork" on hourglass: arties+techs each side and the hill... we did that in non00bs vs a couple of other servers and it's practically unstoppable.


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Re: My Opinions on Clans(Warning: Anti-Clan Rant Ahead) [message #189775 is a reply to message #189346] Mon, 13 February 2006 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Tunaman
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Dr. Lithius wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 10:16

Six words for ya...

Seven. Flame. Tank. Rush. On. Hourglass.

This is what happened to us on n00bstories' server just a couple hours ago. We did not survive.

If you have only see that done once, I feel very sad for you. Huh
When I played on xphaze we did that around every time we played that map.. o.o


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