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Re: Church of FSM [message #177685 is a reply to message #177621]

Thu, 03 November 2005 13:56

NeoSaber
Messages: 336
Registered: February 2003

Karma:

Recruit

Crimson wrote on Thu, 03 November 2005 06:23

Any time I ask why there is so much evil and bad luck in this world, while "God" allegedly "loves us", all I get is "free will". No one has been able to rationally explain this to me.

Warranto has tried a bit, but I figured I'd take a stab at it too. Big Grin

For starters we need to determine a suitable definition of evil. After all, in science you can't hope to explain a phenomena properly if you can't define it. Newton had this problem with gravity, which was corrected by Einstein.

Evil is not a creation in itself, it does not exist like a rock exists. It exists like a shadow exists, or cold exists. It is defined by being the absence of a creation. In the case of a shadow, it is the absence of light. In the case of cold, it is the absence of heat. In the case of evil, it is the absence of good. Because it's 'existence' is entirely dependent on good, we need to define good as well.

Essentially, good is everything that comes from God. Good being something that is created, and all creations ultimately come from God. Since good is what God does, it is impossible by definition for God not to be benevolent. His nature requires that He is benevolent, as it is part of being omnipotent and omniscient. If you understood everything, you'd know what the 'right thing' was to do in every situation you could ever face. You'd have to do what was right because it violates your very nature to do otherwise.

It should be noted, that due to this relationship between good and evil. Evil can only exist if good exists somewhere else. However good can exist on its own, without the need for evil to occur. This makes evil powerless to good. If by some fluke, evil could overcome good, it would be self defeating as it would cease to exist as well. If good overcomes evil, it probably wouldn't even notice the event happened, as it shares no connection with evil from its perspective.

By all this, we can say good is what God wants, and evil is what He doesn't want. Good is His creation, His very essence. Evil is the lack of His creation, the absence of His presence. Hopefully, we've now hammered out a definition of what constitutes good and what constitutes evil.

Now we come to humans, who have the free will to choose whether to follow God's way or not. You have the choice to do what's right, or not to do what's right. When you reject God's way, the absence you cause is 'evil'. Why would a supreme benevolence allow for this? It serves the purpose of teaching. Like a parent won't prevent every mistake of a child, so they can learn why it is 'wrong' to do something, God allows people to make mistakes because it helps people to learn why it is a mistake. Sure you can be told, but God wants you to understand, truly understand. As a finite being, understanding comes from experience. A human learns by pattern recognition. Seeing, hearing, etc the same thing over and over until you understand it.

God doesn't want you to 'be good', He wants you to 'want to be good'. He wants you to understand why you should be good. If He wanted He could have a race of mindless drones that did what He wanted, because they are programmed to. However, He made us. Creatures that can defy Him, that in doing so prove that to defy Him is pointless.

Free will is the ultimate test of His infinite power (as well as the ultimate test of a person's character). "Can God create a rock so heavy, He can't lift it?" as the saying goes. Can God sacrifice all His power over us, and yet still bring us back to Him? Will we understand and accept the ultimate truth about existence, the 'meaning of life' so to speak? Can God prove He is God, without using His dominant power over us? That'll probably be up to us, we have free will after all.

That's the way I see it anyway.

NeoSaber

Renegade Map Maker at CnC Source
Animator/Compiler/Level Editor/Object Rigger/Programmer for Red Alert: A Path Beyond

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[Message index]

		Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 17 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 17 October 2005 23:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: spazbeast on Wed, 19 October 2005 17:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: SuperFlyingEngi on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 05:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 19 October 2005 20:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: xptek on Wed, 19 October 2005 19:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 20 October 2005 06:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 20 October 2005 07:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: bandie63 on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 10:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 15:43
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:01
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Thu, 20 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Thu, 20 October 2005 19:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 07:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 10:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 12:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 14:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 11:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 13:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Renerage on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 15:25
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:09
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Sun, 23 October 2005 17:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 18:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:06
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 19:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:00
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 23 October 2005 20:45
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Sun, 23 October 2005 23:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Mon, 24 October 2005 02:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 07:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 24 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 11:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Mon, 24 October 2005 16:39
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 03:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 25 October 2005 19:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Mon, 24 October 2005 18:48
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:04
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 24 October 2005 19:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Tue, 25 October 2005 05:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Tue, 25 October 2005 06:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Tue, 25 October 2005 10:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: runewood on Tue, 25 October 2005 17:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 26 October 2005 02:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Wed, 26 October 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 27 October 2005 02:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 06:50
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: DaveGMM on Wed, 26 October 2005 10:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 26 October 2005 18:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Thu, 27 October 2005 05:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:51
		Re: Church of FSM By: MrBob on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 10:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 08:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 27 October 2005 12:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Thu, 27 October 2005 11:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Thu, 27 October 2005 22:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: PointlessAmbler on Sun, 30 October 2005 00:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 27 October 2005 13:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Oblivion165 on Fri, 28 October 2005 07:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: YSLMuffins on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: NukeIt15 on Thu, 27 October 2005 16:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Fri, 28 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 05:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Goztow on Fri, 28 October 2005 06:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 08:13
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Fri, 28 October 2005 16:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Fri, 28 October 2005 17:54
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Sun, 30 October 2005 05:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Mon, 31 October 2005 00:02
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 06:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 08:27
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 03:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:07
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 09:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Mon, 31 October 2005 14:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 12:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 15:30
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Mon, 31 October 2005 22:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Tue, 01 November 2005 11:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:17
		Re: Church of FSM By: Jecht on Mon, 31 October 2005 18:19
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 20:34
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:26
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Mon, 31 October 2005 21:57
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 00:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 06:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 08:15
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Tue, 01 November 2005 09:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:21
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:36
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Tue, 01 November 2005 13:38
		Re: Church of FSM By: Parad0x on Tue, 01 November 2005 10:40
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:41
		Re: Church of FSM By: Sniper_De7 on Tue, 01 November 2005 17:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:08
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 08:22
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:35
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:33
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:46
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:44
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:47
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Tue, 01 November 2005 23:52
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 00:31
		Re: Church of FSM By: cheesesoda on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Wed, 02 November 2005 16:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 10:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:29
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:49
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:28
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 13:58
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:53
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 19:20
		Re: Church of FSM By: mrpirate on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 17:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Javaxcx on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: Hydra on Wed, 02 November 2005 20:59
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Wed, 02 November 2005 21:03
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 04:23
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 15:12
		Re: Church of FSM By: NeoSaber on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:24
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 08:10
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 10:11
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 14:42
		Re: Church of FSM By: Crimson on Thu, 03 November 2005 09:56
		Re: Church of FSM By: Aircraftkiller on Thu, 03 November 2005 13:37
		Re: Church of FSM By: warranto on Thu, 03 November 2005 16:20

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