Home » Archived Forums » RenGuard Client » Renguard not needed to play Renegade
| Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176329] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 04:14  |
BrokenClaw
Messages: 5
Registered: October 2005
Location: florida
Karma: 0
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I was just wondering why don't you have a disclaimer telling renguard users you don't have to have renguard in order to play renegade .3rd party programs like renguard are not required for renegade, especially a program that uses open ports . Calling players noobs or insulting people on servers for not having renguard is pathetic, it shows just how much class the server owner has . Some how players are convinced if you don't have renguard you must be cheating so they !forcerg and get kicked from the server until renguard is installed. I personally refuse to install a program that is unofficial and has unofficial patches to it , it's not paranoia it a security issue with my network .
the word unofficial means its not coming from Wol or EA so why would anyone trust it ? because it says anti cheat ? I think its putting to much trust in a program that has to much access .
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176330 is a reply to message #176329] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 04:27  |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
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I don't see BHS saying anywhere that RenGuard is required. It is up to the server owner to enforce it
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176360 is a reply to message #176329] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 07:46 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| BrokenClaw wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 07:14 |
especially a program that uses open ports .
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What open ports are you talking about?
| BrokenClaw wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 07:14 |
I personally refuse to install a program that is unofficial and has unofficial patches to it , it's not paranoia it a security issue with my network .
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That's your choice, however don't forget that the cheaters apparently have NO problems installing "unofficial" programs and patches (cheats), which RenGuard is designed to PROTECT YOU FROM. 
| BrokenClaw wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 07:14 |
the word unofficial means its not coming from Wol or EA so why would anyone trust it ? because it says anti cheat ? I think its putting to much trust in a program that has to much access .
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We would all certainly love if "Wol" or EA would still support this game and release official patches, but guess what, Westwood is gone and EA no longer supports it, so official fixes aren't going to happen.
These very forums you are posting on were oficially handed over by Westwood, and some of the same people who run these forums are the few members of BHS, so it's as "official" as you are going to get.
We've never given anyone a reason not to trust us. If you want to be paranoid that is your choice...it just depends on if you want to play in cheat-free servers or not.
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176406 is a reply to message #176329] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 13:43 |
BrokenClaw
Messages: 5
Registered: October 2005
Location: florida
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Your missing my point . Seems to me that players are brain washed into thinking that Renguard is needed to play Renegade . And if your not using Renguard then your cheating . What logic is that ?
Well the point is no matter what logic you come up with its not official. Guess I should take the creators word on it and not ask for any credibility before installing a 3rd party program on my PC ? Im just going to the source not the server owners its generated here .
[Updated on: Tue, 25 October 2005 13:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176409 is a reply to message #176329] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 14:28 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
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There have been code audits in the past by external people covered by a Non Disclosure Agreement. Kanezor was one of them..
That much for credibility.. we have external people that can garantuee that the program does what it is supposed to.
Also, what the program does and what it transmits is covered in the Terms of Service which is available in the renguard client homepage or www.renguard.com
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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[Updated on: Tue, 25 October 2005 14:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176413 is a reply to message #176406] |
Tue, 25 October 2005 14:51 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
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| BrokenClaw wrote on Tue, 25 October 2005 15:43 |
Guess I should take the creators word on it and not ask for any credibility before installing a 3rd party program on my PC ? Im just going to the source not the server owners
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As always, it's up to you to decide whether or not to install RenGuard on your machine. Remember that if you don't install RenGuard, you are more prone to being accused of cheating because anyone can cheat quite easily without RenGuard. But that's beside the point... you're questioning the credibility of BlackHand Studios. I am unfamiliar with every working aspect of BlackHand Studios, so I cannot comment on that. However, I can assure you that RenGuard, a product of BlackHand Studios, does not transmit anything beyond what is necessary to satisfy two things:
1) Verify you are not using known (or possibly unknown) cheats
2) Provide unique information required to prevent you from connecting if you abuse RenGuard
If you have any specific questions regarding credibility, then please ask. I feel that there are a lot of people that unjustly doubt the "true" purpose of RenGuard, and I hope to be able to help solve that problem.
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176479 is a reply to message #176329] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 02:27 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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That's not why I run Half-RG. It's merely an innocent-until-proven guilty thing. Running RG convinces me as a server owner that you are willing to prove you're not a cheating asshole. If you aren't running it, then I have no sympathy for you if people decide you might not be playing fairly and should therefore prove it.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176480 is a reply to message #176479] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 02:36 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
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| Crimson wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 05:27 |
That's not why I run Half-RG. It's merely an innocent-until-proven guilty thing. Running RG convinces me as a server owner that you are willing to prove you're not a cheating asshole.
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Or that you are a talented cheating a********? I see running RG as either:
A gesture of goodwill on behalf of a non-cheat
A good way to remove suspicion if someone has been able to bypass RG. (You can argue the merits of the assumption RG can be bypassed, but I am yet to see a 100% anti-cheat system, anywhere.)
| Crimson wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 05:27 |
If you aren't running it, then I have no sympathy for you if people decide you might not be playing fairly and should therefore prove it.
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Prove it how? By being tested or by being forced? If by being forced, thats an innocent-until-suspected guilty isn't it?
[Updated on: Wed, 26 October 2005 02:38] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176481 is a reply to message #176329] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 03:23 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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Yep, innocent until suspected and that's the way it needs to be for my server. You can't really proove someone cheats anyway, so better make him force to use RG as next best solution.
And the message can be configured by the server owner in renguard.cfg . But most server owners don't take the time to configure anything, that's prolly why some server side mods have such a success: the standard config for brenbot includes some (weapon drops, ...).
And yes, he is tolerating you. Go out and find a non-RG server (so not half-RG but none at all) which has much players in it... GL!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
[Updated on: Wed, 26 October 2005 03:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176490 is a reply to message #176329] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 07:00 |
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Sniper_De7
Messages: 866
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin
Karma: 0
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Why do you act like people who are on RG never get tested? Besides, is your argument then that since RG is about 99% cheat effective that you disguise the one cheater out of a hundred compared to 99 cheaters, that might very well ruin the games if there were no moderators on, (because forcerg wouldn't be on here, remember) out of a hundred? I guess the biggest problem is that why wouldn't you install renguard because it doesn't do anything to your computer (whether you want to admit it or not) There might be a small percentage who can't install it but i'm going to go ahead and doubt that you can't
Oderint, dum metuant.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. - Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176527 is a reply to message #176480] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 12:06 |
Kanezor
Messages: 855
Registered: February 2005
Location: Sugar Land, TX, USA
Karma: 0
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| light wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 04:11 |
| Goztow wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 02:32 |
The fact that a message that can be changed by server owners says "xxxxx is NOT using renguard and therefor COULD be cheating" could make people believe they need ti to play on that server and that's quite correct!  So I don't see any desinformation there. the server owner just warns you that you need it to play there but that he's tolerating you not using it at the moment...
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I'm afraid I have to disagree there. That message doesn't say to me "you need to get renguard" it says "you will be suspected when you get a good shot more than an RG user would be suspected"
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That is because the server owner has modified their bot to tell you that particular message, instead of the default. I don't remember exactly what the default message is for BRenBot, but I do know that's not it.
| light wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 04:11 |
The server owner isnt "tolerating you", if he made his server full-RG, it would probably spend most of its time empty. He is allowing half-RG players because he recognises not everyone runs RG, and not all non-RG users hack.
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That might be. But the fact of the matter is, it's the server owner that chooses to let you not run RenGuard in order to connect to their server.
| light wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 04:11 |
Besides, isn't the message built into the bots themselves, and runs on half-RG mode, regardless of host preference?
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I do believe you can remove the messages one way or another.
| light wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 04:11 |
As for the original point: RG is encouraged by some server owners and by some community members, but there are a lot of servers that don't require RenGuard for you to play.
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That's my point exactly. The server owners choose whether or not they want to have RenGuard-protected servers. You choose whether or not you want to be protected by RenGuard.
| light wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 05:36 |
You can argue the merits of the assumption RG can be bypassed, but I am yet to see a 100% anti-cheat system, anywhere.
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I'm not going to speak for others around here, but I'm also not going to beat around the bush. RenGuard can be bypassed. Any system can be bypassed if you have sufficient knowledge, but that doesn't change the fact that it rarely does get bypassed. If everyone and their dog knew how to bypass it, then surely everyone and their dog would bypass it? Maybe if you play on a LOT of servers at the right time, you might find two or three times per day you that has bypassed it. But out of the several hundred RenGuard users every day, that's less than 1%. And yes, there are people that can still consistently get much-better-than-average headshots on people while running RenGuard. I can almost guarantee you that if they haven't already been banned from the server, then they either can pass every test you give them, or they have a lot of sway with the server's owner.
And, that also doesn't stop the fact that for any true bypass to work, the user must not be banned from the RenGuard network. So, if you know someone that is consistently (and provably) bypassing RenGuard, let a member of the RenGuard team know. They have the tools necessary to look into the matter and they will take action if needed. If the user cannot connect to the RenGuard network, then they cannot bypass RenGuard. Also, if you know of a method of bypassing RenGuard, then let the RenGuard team know of that too. RenGuard 1.04 is being actively developed, and action will be taken to fix any bypass you mention (especially if it has not already been fixed).
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176537 is a reply to message #176329] |
Wed, 26 October 2005 12:51 |
BrokenClaw
Messages: 5
Registered: October 2005
Location: florida
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Just my point , i was playing with seems like a server full of noobs yesterday . They did'nt dodge , jump , squat, or even try to avoid getting killed just ran straight to me . Now , to me that's like shooting mice in a trash can . I was acused of cheating then !forcerg and before my offer to test me, i was banned just that easy. and im supposed to be a fan of renguard ? 
[Updated on: Wed, 26 October 2005 12:56] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176611 is a reply to message #176329] |
Thu, 27 October 2005 04:17 |
BrokenClaw
Messages: 5
Registered: October 2005
Location: florida
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Yes, I had installed Renguard. Some of the features are unique but I just don't trust 3 party programs . Any thing that is installed with unofficial patches , on my PC where im taking the creators word for it concerns me . If I got a break down on what changes it makes to ports etc or had a better overall understanding on renguard as a program then maybe Ill keep it installed . and i am not looking for or need your sympathy crimson . If you don't see my point then your just as close minded like everyone else .
[Updated on: Thu, 27 October 2005 04:41] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176641 is a reply to message #176329] |
Thu, 27 October 2005 10:33 |
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luv2pb
Messages: 1488
Registered: February 2004
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General (1 Star)
Not everything is as it appears
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your distrust/ignorance of 3rd party programs does not make the rest of us close minded. I personally think that anyone that throws this big a fit about RG is just crying because they can't cheat. Do you cheat? I have no idea but what the hell if you can assume RG is malicious with no fact or basis what so ever then I can assume you cheat. Even if you refuse to use RG then so be it. There are servers that don't run it. Go play there no one will miss you. Oh and btw the idea is to get more and more people to use RG. That is what makes it an effective program and keeps the scum out.
N00bstories Director Of Operations
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176666 is a reply to message #176611] |
Thu, 27 October 2005 15:35 |
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trooprm02
Messages: 3266
Registered: August 2005
Location: Canada
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| BrokenClaw wrote on Thu, 27 October 2005 06:17 |
Yes, I had installed Renguard. Some of the features are unique but I just don't trust 3 party programs . Any thing that is installed with unofficial patches , on my PC where im taking the creators word for it concerns me . If I got a break down on what changes it makes to ports etc or had a better overall understanding on renguard as a program then maybe Ill keep it installed . and i am not looking for or need your sympathy crimson . If you don't see my point then your just as close minded like everyone else .
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Why don't you grow up an run it? Your acting like a big baby, BHS is not making a profit from Renguard, nor is it ad-supported (thank god)! You have to think alittle sometimes, third-party indicated people have something to gain from using there product, BHS does not. and BHS is currently (in 75% of peoples views), more official than WOL or XWIS will ever be!
Just because something is official (like WOL), doesn't mean its te best or better than something thats not(Look at what WOL did, and in still doing!  )!
My: Videos/Website/Forums
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176686 is a reply to message #176329] |
Fri, 28 October 2005 00:05 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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I have a great idea for you! You take 50 $ out of your pocket every month, you got to our friend Nightma12, he will set up one charm of a server for you, without RG if wanted, you'll play on there and hope that cheaters won't come and ruin most of your games. Good luck!
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176689 is a reply to message #176329] |
Fri, 28 October 2005 01:45 |
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light
Messages: 988
Registered: January 2005
Karma: 0
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Nice to see this argument degrade into a fight over who can shout the loudest that they are right.
BrokenClaw: I suggest playing in LTServ and FnFall servers, they are fair in their moderation, and do not rely on RenGuard.
Also look around, there are a few good servers that run half-RG or no RG at all. (half-RG can be tricky though, it helps to know a mod/admin on the server your playing on). They are not 'infested with cheats', as they have the moderation team to deal with such people.
To all the RG fans:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Claw doesn't want to run RG, that doesn't mean you have to make yourselves feel better about running RG by trying to put him down.
RG is the best (and only) anti-cheat program out there, but there are servers with teams of moderators that have survived quite well and happily without having to use it, I should know, I am a member of them.
Just accept that not everyone here believes in RG as much as you do, and try and listen to people who voice a different opinion to yours, you never know, they may make sense.
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| Re: Renguard not needed to play Renegade [message #176690 is a reply to message #176329] |
Fri, 28 October 2005 03:05 |
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Goztow
Messages: 9737
Registered: March 2005
Location: Belgium
Karma: 13
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General (5 Stars)
Goztoe |
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It's quite simple: when you come to a forum, handled by the makers of a program that you're going to put down, then you're looking for problems...
You can find me in The KOSs2 (TK2) discord while I'm playing. Feel free to come and say hi! TK2 discord
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