Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Rich People vs. Poor People
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #160868 is a reply to message #160722] |
Sun, 19 June 2005 21:25   |
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Hydra
Messages: 827
Registered: September 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx wrote on Sun, 19 June 2005 01:38 |
Well, the problem with charity is that it is circumstantial and does not necessarily address everyone that may "need" welfare.
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Sure, no single charity can ever administer to everyone who needs a "helping hand"--that's why there are literally hundreds if not thousands or even tens of thousands of charity organizations on the entire North American continent.
You don't fix poverty by throwing money at the poor--you change their destrictive lifestyles.
How do you do that? By addressing each and every person on an individual basis and working with him to change his self-destructive habits.
Throwing money at them in the form of a welfare check every month is no way to change self-destructive habits, but that seems to be all that the government is capable of.
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I have little problem paying a percentage of my taxes to see that someone else can get back on their feet
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That's the problem with welfare--it doesn't help people get back on their feet.
It doesn't force them to change their self-destructive lifestyles. It enables them to continue being poor since it's a source of free money for them to squander on beer and lottery tickets.
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Last time I checked, neither of us have that right.
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Not according to the Declaration of Independence. "Inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." That whole thing (not really expecting you to know that, though, since you're Canadian  ).
There is no Constitutional guarantee of a warm bed to sleep in and free food, so why should I have money I've earned taken from me and given to someone else?
Sidenote (not directed at you, Javaxcx): it's funny how people who often accuse others of being "heartless" and "selfish" only want to play with other people's money--never their own.
The government doesn't need to step in and take my money from me and give it to someone else. I can do it just as well on my own without needing the government to take it from me.
Why don't you get your hand out of my pocket and put it back in your own? Instead of taking my money from me and giving it to others, you can try giving up some of your own money. Who's the greedy one now, hypocrite?
| Aircraftkiller |
Hey, if you've got beachfront property in Panama City, invite me over so I can visit or something.
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Though the property will be as good as ours in the next few days (contract competitor can't find financing in time allowed by his contract; we already have financing all lined up), we probably won't close on it 'till July.
Walter Keith Koester: September 22, 1962 - March 15, 2005
God be with you, Uncle Wally.
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #160999 is a reply to message #160868] |
Mon, 20 June 2005 13:26 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Hydra wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 00:25 |
You don't fix poverty by throwing money at the poor--you change their destrictive lifestyles.
How do you do that? By addressing each and every person on an individual basis and working with him to change his self-destructive habits.
Throwing money at them in the form of a welfare check every month is no way to change self-destructive habits, but that seems to be all that the government is capable of.
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I never meant to say that I liked the way welfare was being delt as it stands, because I don't  . I understand that a destructive lifestyle is not necessarily deserving of any kind of assurance cheque in the mail allowing them to keep that lifestyle continuous, I was referring to those you REALLY need it. And I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on who those people are, because 99% of them would be temporarily on welfare.
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Last time I checked, neither of us have that right.
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Not according to the Declaration of Independence. "Inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." That whole thing (not really expecting you to know that, though, since you're Canadian ).[/quote]
Well, I've always been a tad confused about what exactly they mean when they say liberty, because I see liberty being raped out of many Americans all of the time. It depends on how far that definition is expanded, really.
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There is no Constitutional guarantee of a warm bed to sleep in and free food, so why should I have money I've earned taken from me and given to someone else?
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Because that is dependant on what you consider the role of government to be. I personally like the idea of giving everyone at LEAST a warm bed to sleep in, and food to those who have the initiative and will to earn it. Unfortunately, not everyone who has that can get the job done, but they've tried their best and I feel that is worth something-- at least on a moral level.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #161005 is a reply to message #160868] |
Mon, 20 June 2005 13:53 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Hydra wrote on Mon, 20 June 2005 00:25 |
Not according to the Declaration of Independence. "Inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." That whole thing (not really expecting you to know that, though, since you're Canadian ).
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Just simply to point it out, the Canadian Charter isn't that much different. "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice." Of course the idea we have of "reasonable limits" to our rights, whereas American rights are absolute, might have something to do with the difference of opinions; rather than not knowing what the Declaration of Independance states.
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #161349 is a reply to message #160705] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 06:46 |
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Fabian
Messages: 821
Registered: April 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Hydra wrote on Sat, 18 June 2005 22:18 |
| Javaxcx |
that's why I believe welfare is a necessity in society.
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Why does there need to be a government program when private charities and the poor individual's close friends and family could do the job?
Besides, don't I have a right to be greedy?
| SEAL wrote on Fri, 17 June 2005 13:56 |
All my friends at school who have rich parents also had rich grandparents. Wealth seems to be inherited a good deal of the time. Maybe not the majority of the time, but a good portion of it.
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Inherited, huh?
My grandfather grew up dirt poor during the depression. My father grew up in a small ranch house in a lower middle-class family.
Now, he owns a million-dollar home with a quarter-of-a-million-dollar swimming pool and cabana in the back, and we're purchasing beach-front property in Panama City.
Do you have any idea how my father obtained all that wealth?
By being damn good at his job and working his ass off.
You don't know enough about reality to make such an ignorant statement as that.
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Let me reiterate:
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Maybe not the majority of the time, but a good portion of
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Shut your face.
[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2005 06:48] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #161387 is a reply to message #160438] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 10:17 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7430
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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No, I'm not a church goer. My beliefs don't follow any organized religion. But I know several churches will give you a box of food when you can't afford groceries. My dad's friend's wife, before the friend married her, was down on her luck and the mormon church set up her up with a modest apartment and helped her get a job, and now she's most definitely on her feet. No one cares about the faceless government giving them money (even though the government doesn't have a dime until it takes the money from us -- they don't realize this or think about it)... but taking money from the church is like taking money from God himself, and its significantly less likely to be abused.
I'm the bawss.
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| Re: Rich People vs. Poor People [message #161396 is a reply to message #160438] |
Wed, 22 June 2005 10:44 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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Yeah, it's interesting to watch that if you happen onto some money, you're more likely to spend it irresponsibly, but if you know where it came from, or who gave it to you, you're more likely to spend it wisely.
whoa.
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