| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137207] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 02:07  |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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General (3 Stars)
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6935477/
This could get hairy...if test tube babies are now persons, all kinds of interesting legal things can happen. Accidentally drop a test-tube, you have now committed manslaughter. Fertility clinics have hundreds of frozen embryos onsite...if their freezer breaks down, are they then guilty of mass murder under the law?
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Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person
Chilling effect possible on IVF, abortion, stem cell research
The Associated Press
Updated: 8:00 p.m. ET Feb. 8, 2005
All Alison Miller and Todd Parrish wanted was to become parents. But when a fertility clinic didn’t preserve a healthy embryo they had hoped would one day become their child, they sued for wrongful death.
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A judge refused to dismiss their case, ruling in effect that a test-tube embryo is a human being and that the suit can go forward.
Though most legal experts believe the ruling will be overturned, some in the fertility business worry it could have a chilling effect, threatening everything from in vitro fertilization to abortion rights and embryonic stem cell research.
An end to IVF?
“If the decision stands, it could essentially end in vitro fertilization,� said Dr. Robert Schenken, president of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. Few doctors would risk offering the procedure if any accident that harmed the embryo could result in a wrongful death lawsuit, said Schenken, chairman of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Texas in San Antonio.
He said the society, a professional group for fertility doctors, is considering filing a court brief opposing Friday’s ruling by Cook County Judge Jeffrey Lawrence.
What do you think?
Live vote: Is a test-tube embryo a person?
The lawyer for the clinic, James Kopriva, declined to say if an appeal is planned, but added, “We are weighing our options. We disagree with the court’s decision and do not believe Illinois law provides for the remedy provided by the court.�
In a letters to the couple in June 2000, Dr. Norbert Gleicher, director of the Center for Human Reproduction, said an employee had failed to put an embryo in frozen storage and he apologized for “this oversight.�
Fuel for anti-abortion activists
If the ruling for the couple holds, it would have no legal standing outside Illinois. However, it could provide impetus for groups elsewhere to push an agenda opposing both abortion rights and stem cell research, said Northwestern University law professor Victor Rosenblum, an abortion foe who has worked with anti-abortion activists.
“I certainly admire the initiative of the Cook County judge in taking this step,� but it likely will not survive any appeals attempts, Rosenblum said.
The judge refers in his ruling to an Illinois statute that implies that wrongful death lawsuits can be filed on behalf of the unborn regardless of age. In Lawrence’s interpretation, that includes a test-tube embryo before pregnancy — the microscopic bunch of cells that form after an egg is fertilized in the laboratory but before being implanted into the womb.
There are nearly half a million such embryos frozen at fertility clinics nationwide. They are typically extras produced through in vitro fertilization, and most clinics keep them indefinitely until couples decide to use them or authorize their disposal, said University of Minnesota ethicist Jeffrey Kahn.
Widespread implications
Kahn said if the decision stands, “it will have implications not only for embryonic stem cell research, but for all of reproductive medicine, potentially.�
SPECIAL REPORT
Lori Andrews a reproductive rights lawyer in Chicago, said the Chicago case is reminiscent of disputes in other states in which custody of embryos was at issue — including a Tennessee divorce case in which a lower-court ruling that an embryo was a child was reversed on appeal.
Dr. Ralph Kazer, head of the IVF program at Chicago’s Northwestern Memorial Hospital, said fertility specialists are watching the case with interest, but also said he doubts it will stand.
He said the case serves to “simply remind me and to remind my team that we have to continue to be very fastidious about how we handle our embryos.�
Miller and Parrish, the Chicago couple, had no intent beyond seeking justice for the clinic’s error, said their attorney James Costello. A phone listing for them in Chicago was disconnected and Costello said they did not want to discuss their case with the news media.
“This was a couple who wanted to become parents, this isn’t Roe vs. Wade,� Costello said, referring to the Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion.
“What they’re looking for is a day in court,� Costello said.
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137290] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 14:49  |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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I firmly believe that all carbon atoms should be considered unborn children under the eyes of the law because they could potentially at some point in time become living things.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137293] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 15:01 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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A fully developed human child is not always the result of an egg being fertilized. Ever heard of a miscarriage?
My misguided, hardcore religious right opinion is that every carbon atom that does not develop into a human is a miscarriage. Thus, fertilized eggs and individual atoms of carbon should fall under the same jurisdiction.
By the way, carbon is the chief atom of life, in case you didn't know.
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)
"The danger to political dissent is acute where the Government attempts to act under so vague a concept as the power to protect "domestic security." Given the difficulty of defining the domestic security interest, the danger of abuse in acting to protect that interest becomes apparent. --U.S. Supreme Court decision (407 U.S. 297 (1972)
The Liberal Media At Work
An objective look at media partisanship
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137306] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 15:25 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
A fully developed human child is not always the result of an egg being fertilized. Ever heard of a miscarriage?
By the way, carbon is the chief atom of life, in case you didn't know.
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I should have put that in there knowing that you'd jump on it, but alas, I figured you would have some common sense.
Yeah, you're a brilliant one there, buddy. OMG DIAMONDS ARE MISCARIAGES. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. HOW SAD. YOU CAN'T WEAR DIAMONDS BECAUSE IT IS DEAD EMBRYOS. YOU SINNER. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG. :rolleyes:
Yeah, I know Carbon is the basis of all lifeforms. I've taken basic Chemistry courses in high school, and I am acing my Basic Chemistry class at college too (it's SO easy...I should have gotten into the next higher one).
whoa.
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137332] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 17:56 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
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General (1 Star) |
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I don't agree with this decision. I don't accept an embryo as a person. A fetilized egg will eventually become a person, but until it is born, or until the fetus is mostly developed or something, I wont consider it a person.
As for abortions: I don't have a problem with people having abortions. IF they do it soon after they are pregnany. If they wait 6 months and then get one, well they are stupid.
| Quote: |
Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137386] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 21:17 |
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Science is giving you a choice.
Blue pill or red pill, it doesn't matter, because in most countries the debate has ended years ago.
I suck cock and love it... absolutely love it. And I just got banned for being too immature to be allowed to post here.
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137398] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 22:26 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| SuperFlyingEngi |
I firmly believe that all carbon atoms should be considered unborn children under the eyes of the law because they could potentially at some point in time become living things.
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Becareful there... you wouldn't want to kill those defenceless dry ice children!
And how dare you breathe! You're expelling potential children everytime you exhale!
[Updated on: Wed, 09 February 2005 22:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Judge rules test-tube embryo is a person [message #137401] |
Wed, 09 February 2005 22:29 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
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General (1 Star) |
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| j_ball430 |
| IRON-FART |
A fetilized egg will eventually become a person, but until it is born, or until the fetus is mostly developed or something, I wont consider it a person.
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An embryo is an underdevloped human being. The genetic code is there. If you say that it's not a human because it's not developed completely, then half of the people on these forums are not human. Yes, the people on these forums are functioning outside their mother's womb and have taken a recognizable form of a human, but they're still not fully developed.
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I didn't say completely. Untill they are a person. Well "person" is a sort of vague description. I'll rephrase that. I won't consider it human unless it can feel, move and think. An embryo or fetilized egg can't do that. Fetus or newborn can. Untill it can do those things, I don't care if it dies.
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Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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