Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135856] |
Wed, 02 February 2005 17:51   |
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prox
Messages: 580
Registered: August 2003
Location: NYC
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| cowmisfit |
| DaveGMM |
It's quite pathetic when he can't even do this himself and has to rely on more intelligent people do bother to do it for him.
The Bible also says do not idolise any craven images, respect thy father and mother... oh, and that's one I know Cowmisfit doesn't do, since he said he was grounded earlier.
So, in esscence, what you're telling me is that you don't do what the bible says either?!
Here we go back to my "Christian when it suits" point.
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Im not grounded for dis-respect, im grounded for getting a shitty grade in spanish and not a B in math.
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Disovidience, believe it or not, is a form of disrespect  .
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135885] |
Wed, 02 February 2005 20:33 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Cow, quick question. Do you also believe anyone who has sex before marriage is also going to hell? My knowledge of the Bible admittedly isn't extensive, but I'm willing to bet it says more about this than two lines.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135891] |
Wed, 02 February 2005 21:05 |
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IRON FART
Messages: 1989
Registered: September 2003
Location: LOS ANGELES
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I believe there was a pope in the 1400's or 1500's that made this a taboo. I haven't read the bible (yet), so I wouldn't know if it was already in th bible.
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Quote from IRC
<[Digital]> get man_fucking_a_car.mpg
<[Digital]> ah fuck wrong window
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135931] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 00:03 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| j_ball430 |
Let me put this very simply: YOU DON'T GO TO HELL JUST BY SINNING. I'm not going to Hell and I sin all the time. Just as every other Christian on this planet. The only way you go to Hell is if you refuse to believe in the Bible and believe that God sent his only son to die on the cross for man's sins. Until you accept that and sincerely believe it, you ARE going to Hell. Other than that, if you do believe, you're guaranteed a spot in Heaven. No amount of good works can get you into Heaven. The Bible clearly states that. Also, it clearly states that you cannot get to Heaven without Christ in your life.
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Sure, if you're a born-again Christian... But I'd be willing to bet that all the non Christians, athiests, agnostics, etc, will disagree with you. Does that still make it simple?
The Bible also clearly states that faith without works is dead, so how does that all fit in?
And if you're Catholic, hell, you don't even need to believe in Jesus.. when you sin, just buy an indulgence from that overflowing spiritual treasury and yer Good ta Go!
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135932] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 00:15 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| xC4pRoX |
Yeah, it's in The Bible. But, who honestly believes in every single line in The Bible? Not me.
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If you don't agree with everything in the bible, the best thing for you to do is sit down, revise it, cross out everything you don't like, and add in all the shit that you think should be there.. Then start your own religion and get some followers to give you some cash as a reward for teaching them your new enlightenment.. That's how all the rest came about, no reason not to do it again.. Maybe we can make it an MLM thing.
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| Re: Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #135984] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 08:17 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Chronojam |
I came into this thread to talk about Iraqi voting, as the title and first post suggest.[/color]
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Sorry, When I read Apple Falafel, I figured we were talking about the Last Supper.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136013] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 10:38 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| msgtpain |
| j_ball430 |
Let me put this very simply: YOU DON'T GO TO HELL JUST BY SINNING. I'm not going to Hell and I sin all the time. Just as every other Christian on this planet. The only way you go to Hell is if you refuse to believe in the Bible and believe that God sent his only son to die on the cross for man's sins. Until you accept that and sincerely believe it, you ARE going to Hell. Other than that, if you do believe, you're guaranteed a spot in Heaven. No amount of good works can get you into Heaven. The Bible clearly states that. Also, it clearly states that you cannot get to Heaven without Christ in your life.
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Sure, if you're a born-again Christian... But I'd be willing to bet that all the non Christians, athiests, agnostics, etc, will disagree with you. Does that still make it simple?
The Bible also clearly states that faith without works is dead, so how does that all fit in?
And if you're Catholic, hell, you don't even need to believe in Jesus.. when you sin, just buy an indulgence from that overflowing spiritual treasury and yer Good ta Go!
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Yes, it still is that simple. Any form of Christianity believes in the Bible, and if they disagree with the gospel of John then they're fucking idiots. 'Nuff said.
whoa.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136096] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 18:24 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| j_ball430 |
Yes, it still is that simple. Any form of Christianity believes in the Bible, and if they disagree with the gospel of John then they're fucking idiots. 'Nuff said.
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Well, if you say so.. I guess the only problem we have now then, is that James specifically contradicts John.. hmmm.... Maybe John was smarter, and therefore correct?
And just for the record, I would love to point out your wise, Christian decleration… It sort of sounds like this:
I FOUND JESUS, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE, SO I'M GOING TO HEAVEN!..
Yea… I'm sure that's all he care's about, you winning the hide-and-seek game; he couldn't possibly care at all about the way you, oh.. lets say.. interact with your fellow mankind? lol
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136099] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 18:32 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| John 14:6 |
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
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Yes, all you have to do is believe sincerely that Jesus is the Son of God, was sent here to die for our sins, rose from the dead, and acended into Heaven again. That's all I'm arguing. I personally believe that one cannot lose their salvation, but I'm not claiming that as truth.
whoa.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136106] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 18:55 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| j_ball430 |
| John 14:6 |
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
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Yes, all you have to do is believe sincerely that Jesus is the Son of God, was sent here to die for our sins, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven again. That's all I'm arguing. I personally believe that one cannot lose their salvation, but I'm not claiming that as truth.
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Lets think here for a minute.. Exactly what does it mean to believe sincerely that Jesus is the Son of God, was sent here to die for our sins, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven again.? If you sincerely believe it, don't you think that you would follow all his other teachings regarding the way he has instructed you to live your life? If you don't, if you just go about your merry way, and live the life that you want to live, have you really sincerely bought in to Jesus?
I'm not going to get in to a semantics debate about why my beliefs are better than yours, or vice versa, I'm just simply pointing out that what you are saying, is actually contradicting even your own words.. Luther was a very humble man, he lived as a monk and was probably closer to "perfect" than anyone I have ever met, yet he still felt torn in the fact that no matter what he did, or how he lived his life, he was never "sin-free".. But he came to the realization that, that isn't what God was asking for, he didn't require him to be perfect before he died, Jesus took care of that.. all Luther had to do was attempt to be like Jesus, as best he could, and that's all that Jesus required of him. When Luther understood this, he felt "born again"..
The Catholics of that era took it to one extreme, buying indulgences as repayment of their sins, sometimes even before they committed them. They felt that they could buy their way in to heaven through money or works... Now days, too many people believe the exact opposite, that all you have to do is profess your belief in Jesus, then you're free to walk away and act as you please.. What James taught, to build upon what those before him, such as John wrote; is that there is a combination of the two, that is required. If you confess your love to Jesus on Sunday, then spit on your neighbor on Monday, you're pretty much showing that what you did on Sunday had no true meaning. It's what's in your heart that matters, and if your heart is true, you will want to be out doing the works, and living the life that Jesus has asked you to. His suffering on earth isn't to be taken lightly, it wasn't a pass-go and collect $200 dollars card.
You can believe as you wish, I'm not going to change that; but at least consider what you're professing, God doesn't care how you really act, as long as you believe he died on a cross.. if that were true, there wouldn't be much need for repentance now would there? The goal in life for a Christian is to live a life closer to God, not just acknowledge he exists; there aren't too many ways to do that except for works.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136111] |
Thu, 03 February 2005 19:06 |
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cheesesoda
Messages: 6507
Registered: March 2003
Location: Jackson, Michigan
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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| msgtpain |
Lets think here for a minute.. Exactly what does it mean to believe sincerely that Jesus is the Son of God, was sent here to die for our sins, rose from the dead, and ascended into Heaven again.? If you sincerely believe it, don't you think that you would follow all his other teachings regarding the way he has instructed you to live your life? If you don't, if you just go about your merry way, and live the life that you want to live, have you really sincerely bought in to Jesus?
I'm not going to get in to a semantics debate about why my beliefs are better than yours, or vice versa, I'm just simply pointing out that what you are saying, is actually contradicting even your own words.. Luther was a very humble man, he lived as a monk and was probably closer to "perfect" than anyone I have ever met, yet he still felt torn in the fact that no matter what he did, or how he lived his life, he was never "sin-free".. But he came to the realization that, that isn't what God was asking for, he didn't require him to be perfect before he died, Jesus took care of that.. all Luther had to do was attempt to be like Jesus, as best he could, and that's all that Jesus required of him. When Luther understood this, he felt "born again"..
The Catholics of that era took it to one extreme, buying indulgences as repayment of their sins, sometimes even before they committed them. They felt that they could buy their way in to heaven through money or works... Now days, too many people believe the exact opposite, that all you have to do is profess your belief in Jesus, then you're free to walk away and act as you please.. What James taught, to build upon what those before him, such as John wrote; is that there is a combination of the two, that is required. If you confess your love to Jesus on Sunday, then spit on your neighbor on Monday, you're pretty much showing that what you did on Sunday had no true meaning. It's what's in your heart that matters, and if your heart is true, you will want to be out doing the works, and living the life that Jesus has asked you to. His suffering on earth isn't to be taken lightly, it wasn't a pass-go and collect $200 dollars card.
You can believe as you wish, I'm not going to change that; but at least consider what you're professing, God doesn't care how you really act, as long as you believe he died on a cross.. if that were true, there wouldn't be much need for repentance now would there? The goal in life for a Christian is to live a life closer to God, not just acknowledge he exists; there aren't too many ways to do that except for works.
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It's my fault that I havn't articulated my beliefs well enough it seems. Of course, I mean that you should follow the rest of the teachings of the Bible. I'm just stating that even if you follow the rest of the teachings, but if you don't agree with John 14:6, then you've not secured anything more than the recognition that you were a caring and loving person.
I agree with you completely. I just didn't explain my side the way that I should have, either that or I wasn't even paying attention to what I was truly saying versus what I meant.
I never meant that you ONLY needed to follow John 14:6. I was just meaning to say that you NEED to follow John 14:6. My fault.
whoa.
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| Voting, Apple Falafel, and Yugo [message #136286] |
Fri, 04 February 2005 13:52 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| msgtpain |
Now days, too many people believe the exact opposite, that all you have to do is profess your belief in Jesus, then you're free to walk away and act as you please.
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"To know the good, is to do the good" -- Socrates.
I would bet that God is a bit smarter than to accept mere profession to His son and His son's acts on earth. And I agree with you, many people today have bought into this false sense of security that God is some kind of simpleton (although God IS perfectly simple, but that is another debate) who will let you into the big Club Med in the sky with a fake I.D.
However, J_ball isn't quite off his rocker on this one. Redemption in the traditional sense has escaladed from the Opus Dei and their corporal mortification to confession to an ordained priest who can magically make your sins disappear for 3 minutes of your time repeating X number of prayers that you may or may not even know the MEANING of. Which leads back to that quote...
If you know what the good is, and in this sense I don't think you'll misinterpret it like many others on this forum, then you will do the good (That isn't to say that is what Socrates actually meant, but the quote is deliciously ambiguous that way). And when you are aware of the good, you will genuinely know the wrong of your past ways and will be able to be redeemed for it because you will genuinely be sorry. Which is all you need to do with God to be forgiven. It's not some funky rain dance or anything, it will be a fully ego-driven conscious effort to be sorry for a misdeed and you will be forgiven.
Now ATONEMENT, that is a COMPLETELY different story.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
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We have Dave and Cowmisfit just bitching back and forth about every fucking facet of religion. Earlier we had Cowmisfit and Dave rambling back and forth at each other about bisexuality and immaturity... Why don't you two just go make a topic "DaveGMM and Cowmisfit hate each other". Then you two can go to town without being bothered by any pesky topics of any importance. 
