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| "...under God" [message #131541] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 16:54   |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Which leaves to the question of why "God" is so extremely offending. I just said God, I don't think anyone in these forums are going to hack me or anything just because of that. What is so offending about saying God? Is it because some people don't want to even be reminded about something they don't believe in? I find that pathetic.
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| "...under God" [message #131545] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 17:03 |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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Yeah, it's funny how only Christianity "offends" people, yet we celebrate what used to be Pagan holidays and NOBODY whines about that. It's just Christianity that hurts people's feelings.
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| "...under God" [message #131548] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 17:48 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Some people find that having "god" in the pledge forces them against their will to acknowledge Christianity and that the god of Christianity is real. It's kind of saying "We're a diverse place, but you have to acknowledge our god to become part of it."
No. Seriously. No.
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| "...under God" [message #131553] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 18:30 |
icedog90
Messages: 3483
Registered: April 2003
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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| Panther |
I don't care about what the government calls christmas-- it's not "endorsing" it by calling it that. I don't know of anyone who would want it changed from that, either. It's hardly even a Christian holiday anymore, more of a commercial one. I jokingly refer to December 25th as "Commercialism Day".
But enough of that-- I say it should either be removed, or all deities should be mentioned in it.
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Christmas isn't the only Pagan holiday.
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| "...under God" [message #131567] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 20:37 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I hate it when people attempt to change things our nation as been doing since its creation just because of what the minority of the people think.
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Methinks you need a little lesson in the history of the Pledge:
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I pledge allegiance
to my Flag,
and to the Republic
for which it stands
one Nation,
indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
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Recognize that? Let me clue you in if you don't: That's the pledge of allegiance as it was originally written in the 1870's (it was written after the Civil War ended). The Pledge as we know it today is actually the SECOND revision; the first changed "to my flag" to "to the Flag of the United States of America." The second revision, made during the Cold War, added "under God."
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Im not a church goer per say, but removing "under God" to me is defacing the very pledge itself.
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Not defacing...as you can see from the way the original Pledge was worded, it is actually bringing it closer to the way it was to begin with.
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If you think there is no god then you shouldnt have a problem giving a fake pledge to him then should you? Just pretend it isnt there.
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Let me put it this way: would a Christian want to say a pledge that has the words "to no God" in it? No...because they believe that there IS a God. To speak those words, to them, is to speak a lie...which, if I remember correctly, is a sin. See what I'm getting at here? Just because you don't believe in God doesn't mean you don't believe lying is wrong, and to speak against one's own beliefs is, by definition, exactly that.
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The fact is, if you take this away, then You take away the Declaration too and you cannot do that because what will School kids learn about our country? nothing.
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The Declaration and the Pledge aren't very closely related, as you should know by now if you've read the rest of this post. The Pledge was written nearly a century later, and it didn't reach its current form until the mid-twentieth century.
However, people SHOULD know the history of the Pledge- and ALL its incarnations. I would never try to deny that the current Pledge exists; it represents a period in our nation's history.
Removing the words "under God" from the pledge won't erase it from history, nor will it result in people not knowing about the history of the country...in fact, the reason why so many people oppose such a change is that they honestly believe that this is the original Pledge- which it is not. Because those words are in there, you DON'T know as much about the history of this country as you thought you did.
Personally, I would like to see the original Pledge brought back- it is a far more personal oath. It excludes no one, and makes you feel like you are part of your country, rather than someone on the outside being controlled by it.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| "...under God" [message #131575] |
Sun, 09 January 2005 20:56 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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No, God is "different" than Allah, they have the same meaning, but are different. If I were to say "We are diverse, but you must pledge to recognise our God" doesn't that say something?
No. Seriously. No.
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| "...under God" [message #131602] |
Mon, 10 January 2005 05:04 |
Spoony_old
Messages: 1105
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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the day people look too deeply into things like this, is the day which signals the beginning of the end of civilisation
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| "...under God" [message #131608] |
Mon, 10 January 2005 05:49 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7428
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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"separation of church and state" isn't in the Constitution or any law. It was merely a theory presented and related to the founding of our governmental structure.
I'm the bawss.
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| "...under God" [message #131619] |
Mon, 10 January 2005 06:54 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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"One nation, under Allah."
If I had the power and I changed it to that, what would you say?
No. Seriously. No.
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