Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » "Why does Renegade suck?"
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127437] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 20:41   |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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gbull, I taunt AssCrackFiller because I can; it's the same argument he uses every time he responds to "pendumbass" or "retardin".. It's the only way I can get him to converse with me.. speaking logically only confuses him and degrades the topic at hand.
As for responding to kicking players for killing me.. There really is no response needed. Any "specifics" he is going to pull out were before RenGuard when EVERY server moderator was kicking players they felt we're playing abnormally. He was banned from my server for ADMITTING he cheated on other servers, and he didn't like it when I posted the IRC log here in the forums.. If that was before your time, you can do a little search and find it yourself.. He's been bitter ever since and accuses me of "kicking people for cheating, even though they are on RenGuard".. when in fact, I banned him for cheating period. It's my server, those are my rules..
Moral high ground? AssCrackFiller, I can assure you that whenever I fail to respond to your trivial posts, it is never because I am proving to you that I stopped arguing; It's always because I don't spend every waking hour here like you do.. Look at my post count? I'm not what you would call an "active participant" in these forums.. I have to give you a break once in a while.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127456] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 22:48 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Aircraftkiller |
You're an idiot msgtpain. I give you every opportunity to talk to me in a civil manner.
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You give ME every opportunity? That's a laugh.. I could have sworn that I did the same for you. Unfortunately, you always found a way back to your real self, which no one wanted around.
TankClash.. you were banned from the game server what, 15 months ago? And it wasn't on just MY observations, just about every single moderator in our community at that time believed you were cheating. If you were banned from the forums, it was most likely so we didn't have to listen to incessant bitching about how we were wrong; as for IRC, I have no clue.. there are about 10 entries on the banlist, and I'm seriously doubting one of them is yours.
Here's a list for you, the topic was started on Sept 23, 2003 by Lynne stating that she felt you were cheating, and wanted to know what everyone else thought. The names of the moderators who posted and agreed are:
msgtpain
clonekilr
leoeyes
Derringer
aussi123
Jarhead
Patonite
Tanhm07
So, you tell me.. YOU run a community, and 9 of your moderators, along with you, feel that a player doubled their skill (proven through our stats logs, both Kills per game, and k/d ratio) 1 week after the original release of the Big Head Mod.. and you're telling me that you would believe the one person when they say they aren't cheating, over the advice of all those moderators in your community?
Here, let me share with you, the data which we all evaluated at that time. here are the three months prior (and during) when the cheats were leaked, and the one month after.
June 2003
Average Score: 1,022.75
Total Kills: 1113
Total Deaths: 925
Average K/D Ratio: 1.20%
July 2003
Average Score: 828.66
Total Kills: 856
Total Deaths: 732
Average K/D Ratio: 1.17%
August 2003
Average Score: 1,280.05
Total Kills: 3119
Total Deaths: 1373
Average K/D Ratio: 2.27%
(Cheats released on Aug 21, 2003)
September 2003
Average Score: 933.79
Total Kills: 5543
Total Deaths: 1363
Average K/D Ratio: 4.07%
Those are your stats TankClash... You went from a 1-2 Max K/D ratio, to a 4.07 when we finally decided to boot you.. Go ahead and look for yourself.. it isn't just those months either, your stats
doubled the week the cheats were released. Take that info, and 10 moderators suggestions that you be banned, and the rest is history..
Sorry you're so sore about it all.. but we do what's in the best interest for everyone, based on all the moderators recommendations, not just what one person wants. (ask AssCrackFiller if you don't believe me on that one)
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127457] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 22:52 |
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Aircraftkiller
Messages: 8213
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars) |
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Funny, he played exactly the same on RenGuard servers too. So with your logic, not only did he cheat, he was hacking the program to keep doing it. Come off it.
He said he bought a new computer then. It makes a big difference to go from playing at low framerate to having high framerate. Someone who was limited by their hardware can play extremely well after the limitation is removed.
You also did not cite the reason for his ban as people agreeing, initially. You said it was that he damaged your vehicle too fast. You didn't bother bringing out the K\D ratios until later because a lot of people were calling your bluff. Fucking liar.
Also, don't forget, you're the one who started this cheating shit. You goaded Ty into making a cheat program and brought the cheating programs on everyone indirectly, and then kept telling him to do it. You're the same kind of people who goaded Death Adder into creating an aimbot for CounterStrike when all you had to do was shut the fuck up about a game engine you don't know anything about.
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You give ME every opportunity? That's a laugh.. I could have sworn that I did the same for you. Unfortunately, you always found a way back to your real self, which no one wanted around.
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Yeah I did asshole. You don't remember me saying I wouldn't bother attacking you like I am now because I wanted to give you the ability to sort things out with me? I do this often with people who have problems with me and I'm sure a lot of people can testify to that fact. And you know what, after that happens, they stop bitching about me because we've come to understand each other and know that there's no reason to argue over the Internet.
I don't get why it works for them, and me, but when I try it with you... You still do the same shit you did before. You talk about me not changing yet you haven't stopped singing the same tune from day one, the "I'm never wrong because I'm msgtpain" song.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127461] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:07 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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You two can keep coming at me as long as you want. You know the difference between the two of you, and everyone else that hasn't said a word? You're the only two that are banned and still pissed about it.
I can either
A: Say I'm oh-so-sorry, let you have your way, and undo the bans
B: Leave everything as it is, and not lose a wink of sleep over it..
hmmmm... which should I chose.
Is this your "Posse" AssCrackFiller? TankClash? lol..
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127463] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:13 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Aircraftkiller |
I don't get why it works for them, and me, but when I try it with you... You still do the same shit you did before.
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Because I don't bow down to your threats, and let you have your way every time the conversation comes up..
This isn't anything new Ack.. we've had these "private" conversations about two dozen times over the course of 2.5 years.. You were a mod, then you weren't, you were a mod, then you weren't, you like us, you hate us, you tolerate us, you despise us.. I finally had enough and decided that I wasn't keeping your bullshit in PM's where you wanted it anymore..
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127464] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:16 |
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addseale2
Messages: 39
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chair or bed
Karma: 0
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Recruit |
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Renegade sucks...
Because Aircraftkiller says so.
"I walk once more, a god among mere mortals..."
Avatar of Khaine, Warhammer 40,000.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127465] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:16 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| TankClash |
Yeah, msgtpain also has a habit of banning people who aren't "known cheaters" without a shred of proof and in a most despicable way..
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let me just say at the time, there was a high level of suspicion for even small misgaming (and i know because I was there), and by misgaming I mean things like lag kills and strange amounts of damage being received etcetra. the cheating season had gone off its rampant era and onto its 'be careful when you cheat' time because people were wising up to how obvious they were cheating thanks to all the damage points received.
but, they didn't ban you without a shred of proof. look over the threads, you were witnessed draining the damage from heavy class vehicles with a chaingun officer as well as many people pointing fingers at you a lot.....you went from a 4-6 kill average to 15 overnight..I might not like the place but know for a fact he wouldn't ban a regular from the game server without any proof at all..besides..how can you really "get" proof? you can only bear witness to things happening before your very eyes..
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127466] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:17 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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oops, foot in mouth...looks like the conversation evolved while that was typed.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127471] |
Sat, 18 December 2004 23:33 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| Aircraftkiller |
Also, don't forget, you're the one who started this cheating shit. You goaded Ty into making a cheat program and brought the cheating programs on everyone indirectly, and then kept telling him to do it.
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Also, that goading shit is bull.....he made the cheat program of his own accord, all the community did was say "right now, there isn't a working cheat available.....you show us one, and we'll deal with it in the right manner". goading would be "ha ha there will never be a cheat available for c&c renegade".
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127476] |
Sun, 19 December 2004 00:34 |
msgtpain
Messages: 663
Registered: March 2003
Location: Montana
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Aircraftkiller |
It was not two dozen times. It was about two or three times. When you say "stop cheating" or "stop doing things I don't like" in-game and refuse to respond, that isn't having a discussion. That's just you making demands and not explaining why.
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You know damn well that I'm not talking about you killing me with an APC, etc. I'm talking about all those late night discussions we've had regarding the way you deal with others, especially with those in The Pitts community, and usually only during the times when you were a moderator FOR that community.. There were plenty of times when a few of us tried to honestly talk to you, and figure out why you harbored so much hate all the time.. As for "stop doing things I don't like in the game".. you mean like when we removed your moderator permissions because you would continually kick people that wouldn't use the tactic you wanted?
| Aircraftkiller |
You still haven't proved that TankClash cheats and you still haven't answered most of what I wrote.
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There is no definitive way to prove that someone does or does not cheat, unless we trust RenGuard as that "device" or sit behind them while they are playing.. Neither of those took place when we banned TankClash.. He was banned on pure speculation, and approved by some moderators and ALL Admins of The Pits, Including Crimson at that time.
What Specifically would you like Answered, Ack?
| Aircraftkiller |
It's not as if anyone plays in your server to begin with, you banned most of the players on WOL for bullshit reasons because they killed you with a vehicle and you threw a hissy fit over it.
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The physical banlist has had names on it since it became available as an FDS option.. It currently has about 800 names on it, and hasn't been added to except for about a dozen names since RenGuard came out.
We use GameBot's kick/ban tables, which currently hold 317 users who are kicked or banned, of which, I've added 32. You can see for yourself here:
http://renegade.the-pitts.net/gamestats/akicked.cfm?sort=kby
So, what was that again about me banning most of the players on WOL because they killed me with a vehicle? Just talking out your ass again? Isn't that what the filler is for?
| Aircraftkiller |
I also found it funny that you claim the server is yours when it's funded by more than just you. Aren't there about 15 or more contributors paying into the server to keep it running, but you claim it as your own, that you can do whatever you want with it?
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The server is mine.. It's in my name, and if you look at both the server and the forums, they both say The Pits. And yes, I can do whatever I want with it.. I could shut it down tomorrow if I wanted to; I could unban both you and TankClash right now if I wanted to.. Those 15 people contribute because they enjoy playing on the server, and yes, we typically discuss any major changes to the server or community before they are implemented.. Want to know how many times I've done something that any of them have had a problem with? zero And I can guarantee if I started a poll about how many people wanted streetlmp to be allowed back in the server, you would lose.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127489] |
Sun, 19 December 2004 02:47 |
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m1a1_abrams
Messages: 375
Registered: August 2003
Karma: 0
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Commander |
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I'm more interested in the possible balance changes to Renegade than this feud between the two of you, so I thought I'd bring it back to that for a little while.
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You bitch about the Havoc over and over and over... EVERYONE has said, if you provide a unit that can counter across the map units efficiently, and make SEEKING missiles from everything that fires a rocket.. NO ONE will care if you change the way Havoc/Sakura function..
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That's what msgtpain in the thread "Fix the damn gun". The suggestion was that it was the ability of Aircraftkiller (or whoever else) to successfully make the changes to the gameplay that was in question, not the belief of the players as to whether or not said changes would theoretically make the game better. The thing is, after I pointed out that the changes were successfully achieved in the RenAlert mod (and with the desired results), the argument seems to have metamorphosed into the idea that it wouldn't be right to effect those changes because a large part of the player base is against them. Now obviously, what the the majority of the players want is an arguable point and not something that any one of us can decide for ourselves. What I'm trying to find out right now is whether msgtpain really feels that the gameplay would be improved if the Ramjet Rifle didn't do a great deal of damage to light armour (and suitably effective anti-air measures were realised to replace the role of snipers on the flying maps)... or whether he would rather that everything stayed as it is, for the sake of familiarity, ease of use, etc. Personally I don't think there's any question that the gameplay would be deeper if the changes were made in some form or another (through extra maps or a whole new game based on Renegade, whatever), and I've already pointed out that the changes can be successfully made to Renegade itself.
A couple of other points that I feel like making are that both msgtpain and Aircraftkiller are guilty of banning people from Renegade servers based on nothing more than gut feelings, or dislike of an individual on some way... and that an increase to your average kill/death ratio at The Pits server, over a short period of time, will never be a good indicator of cheating because of the way that it works. As long as you're capable of getting 5 kills every game and only dying once, then you'll receive an average k/d of "5.0". You can even spend half of your games staring at a Purchase Terminal in the Hand of Nod if you want, but as long as you don't die then your average doesn't drop, because you didn't actually receive a ratio at all for those games. As far as I can tell your average is consolidated at it's current position because you've played more games in total (as if you've received "5.0" for all of the games you've played, even though you haven't), so it's harder to reduce your average k/d by a significant amount even if you start a streak of games where you die regularly.
I don't know if it still works the same way now, but it certainly did when TankClash was banned, so if a slight increase in his average k/d over the course of a month is your statistical evidence for banning him (other than the gut feeling of a group of people), then you don't have any worthy evidence at all. I think I might have even increased my average k/d by 15% in a single month on your server, yet I was never banned for that reason. However, Modemmack was banned for that very reason, even when I had a similar k/d average to him... your reasons for banning people (or allowing them to stay banned if you prefer) are not very consistent, which is why I've come to think that you often ban people because you simply don't like something about them. Of course, I can anticipate you saying that if it were the case, you would have banned me long ago (if you haven't already, that is). 
Edit: you know, I'm not sure why I keep defending TankClash over this. Just for the record, I think he's an asshole. Even so, I don't think he's a cheater.
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| "Why does Renegade suck?" [message #127494] |
Sun, 19 December 2004 03:37 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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As far as "goading to release cheats"... I think that sort of logic is the same as "we asked for 9/11 because of our foreign policies". Nothing excuses the release of cheats.
Bottom line, the thing I've always said. If you own a server, you have every right to say who can/can't play on it. If I want to ban everyone with an X in their nickname, I could.
Furthermore, unless there is compelling evidence in community opinion otherwise, we will NOT make mandatory balance changes to the game. Any maps with altered balance will be given separate file names and it will be at the discretion of the server owner whether or not they wish to run the altered maps. We always aim to give as much power as possible to the server owner, because it's ultimately their choice how gameplay will run on their servers.
With that, I think this topic will be locked. I'm not altogether happy about giving one person the last word, so if msgtpain wants to post his last words, I will let him.
I'm the bawss.
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