Home » General Discussions » General Discussion » Fix the damn gun
| Fix the damn gun [message #124509] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 20:19   |
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Jecht
Messages: 3156
Registered: September 2004
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars) |
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people that suck at this game piss me off, the only way to deal with a good sniper is to counter with a sniper, suck at sniping? tough titty said the kitty when the milk went dry. If you cant get by a sniper with helis or humvees, then use......ANOTHER STRATEGY! omg who'd a thunk it? maybe you CAN avoid sniper rape if you use an APC, MED, LightTank, Flamer, or Stank! omfg im on a freakin roll. fact is, if you are playin with helis, then you are playin AOW, in which case snipers play a less significant roll, just Tank rush their base and you win. nuff said.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124520] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 20:51 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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Ran a n00b over once, we was like...
OMG!!! HOST!!! GLYDE IS CHEATING!!! HE JUST RAN ME OVER AND I HAD A HAVOC AND THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!
Since I was the host I kicked him. He was a dumbass.
No. Seriously. No.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124552] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 23:14 |
knight1b
Messages: 70
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 0
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Want to take out a team of snipers? Use team work you wouldnt belive how far it gets you. One thing i like is to grab a transport choper have 1 or 2 of my guys run out and jump around the feild then when the snipers come out to play squish! A sniper even a good one is somewhat limited while hes snipeing as well so another tactic might be sneak up behind them and stick a timed c4 on them. Again theres plenty of ways to just plain deal with it.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124844] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 00:04 |
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liberator
Messages: 246
Registered: May 2003
Location: Classified, Level Phi cle...
Karma: 0
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| =[DT |
=gbull=[L]=]but if you truely have skillz than you dont need a n00bjet to own at sniping, a 500 works just fine for me, but in AOW i generally use a n00bjet just to mow down any humvees that want to try to sneak in and take out my refinery.
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You just made our argument for us. If a unit has as precise a weapon as a sniper rifle, it needs to be limited somehow. That's all we're asking for.
Right now, especially on Fan Map servers, if a n00bcannon gets within targeting distance, the Finger of God descends in the form of a blue streak, even(and usually especially) when most players are struggling to get a $500 character early in the game.
What we are asking is that the weapon be balanced, right now it turns even mediochre snipers into Gods, and that is unfair to the opposing team.
It's too powerful and it taunts the opposing team, it in effect says "Yeah, I'm out here, way beyond you're most long range weapon. I can kill you at will and my only weaknesses are running out of ammo and if you can somehow live long enough to trace my location and get a tank here, in which case I probably long gone, or get another n00bjet to kill me before I can see him and kill him myself."
It sucks, it's unfair, it's a cheat that's allowed because the devs never got around to fixing it and people who use them are n00bs of the highest level because they would suck otherwise(in a fair fight).
It needs to be limited somehow, if you are incapable or, more frighteningly, unwilling to change the damage profile, at least make it single shot with one mother of a reload time(I don't think 2x what a railgun needs is totally out of the question, I mean if you're going to camp anyway, waiting 4-5 secs between kil, er...shots shouldn't matter to you.)
There was a time when people were impressed that I have the firepower to decimate a planet in under 10 minutes.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124921] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 10:44 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Ordinary sniper rifles already do enough damage. Ramjets are overkill. Since Renegade does not include limiters such as recoil, a moderately good player can hit the same spot with 4 rounds in a matter of seconds. Forget that a weapon that big "should" be able to damage vehicles as much as it does, or kill with one shot...it doesn't matter what is realistic, it is bad for gameplay balance. There are dedicated anti-vehicle weapons available, the sniper weapons do not need, and should not be able, to fill that role as well. And I don't care how good of a shot the sniper is, or how long they've been playing, it sucks donkey nuts to get spawn-raped six times in a row because you had the misfortune of appearing in his line of sight.
AA duty should be one area where snipers are useless, it should not be their exclusive domain. The high damage, accuracy, and precision of sniper weaponry makes anything airborne obsolete- but everyone should know that already. There are plenty of effective counters to aircraft; PIC's, Railguns, LCGs, APCs, Even Hummers and Buggies...sniper weapons outclass every one of those except the LCG in terms of speedy kills, and that's not even taking range into consideration.
Anyone who defends the existence of the Ramjet as a weapon is either a player who hides behind it like a blankie, or someone who doesn't pay any attention to the goings-on while playing. Or both.
Personally, I'd like to see Havoc and Sakura turned into the commandos they both should have been. If anyone actually looks back to TD, commandos weren't really anything special against infantry despite having sniper rifles- they fired too slow to kill off even a small group before being overrun. And they couldn't do a damn thing to vehicles. Demolition was the only thing commandos really did well, and only then if the enemy didn't see them coming.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124971] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 14:32 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Quote: |
if you take out the ramjet, nothing is stopping people from using helicopters to decimating you.
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*sniff sniff* I smell bullshit.
You don't need overkill to get kills. APC's make great AA units, for 500 cheaper than a Ramjet. Laser Chainguns actually damage aircraft faster once they are in range of them. PICs and Railguns also work very well. Even the SBH's Laser Rifle works well in a pinch, and the pilot might not see where the shots are coming from until too late. MRLS work well if you see the aircraft coming from long range, as some of the rockets track. Hell, I've taken down a few with a Stealth Tank. If you make good use of cover, even a Hummer or Buggy will do.
Ramjets are simply not necessary, are too powerful, and end up screwing over people who take the time to learn how to use other tactics. If Ramjets were removed, you would find that many "useless" units suddenly become useful and valuable.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #124974] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 14:37 |
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liberator
Messages: 246
Registered: May 2003
Location: Classified, Level Phi cle...
Karma: 0
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For proper game balance everything should have a counter.
Vehicles, even a Mammoth, rightly fear a player with a Personal Ion Cannon or a Rail Gun. It only takes 5 shots from a PIC/Rail to kill a helicopter/orca, but like any long range weapon, it's virtually useless in close quarters.
Infantry rightly fears a sniper at long range, but a SBH or Patch owns them if they get close enough.
The only weapon that doesn't have a counter isthe n00bjet. It can kill an Arty before it can be brought to bear, it can kill an Orca before it gets in range of it's rockets, and it can kill ANY infantry before they get anywhere near being able to lay down any suppressing fire.
A n00bjet doesn't require any real skill aside from a steady hand and fast reflexes, unlike say a rocket or grenade launcher.
There was a time when people were impressed that I have the firepower to decimate a planet in under 10 minutes.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125003] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 15:35 |
knight1b
Messages: 70
Registered: August 2004
Karma: 0
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Lets talk realism some of you seem to love that. realisticly if someone shot you with a ramjet in the real word you would die.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125016] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 16:22 |
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NukeIt15
Messages: 987
Registered: February 2003
Location: Out to lunch
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Or even some places in the torso for that matter...lung shots aren't always fatal if treated quickly enough. Same thing with the kidneys, you have two of those...intestines, bladder, liver, even the gonads...The only two shots which are guaranteed to kill are heart and head- and even a bullet in the heart will leave you with a few more seconds to a minute. Granted, the wound inflicted by such a large-caliber rifle would be horrific, but unless the projectile was explosive, it likely would leave you with a few more minutes to do your business before expiring unless placed in your heart, or your brain.
Realism is not the issue here- the isssue is game balance. It doesn't matter if someone is shooting you with blow-darts, water pistols, or cruise missiles, if having those weapons kill you in one shot is bad for balance, then they should not kill you in one shot. End of story.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. Horrid mischief would ensue were (the law-abiding) deprived of the use of them." - Thomas Paine
Remember, kids: illiteracy is cool. If you took the time to read this, you are clearly a loser who will never get laid. You've been warned.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125018] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 16:25 |
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liberator
Messages: 246
Registered: May 2003
Location: Classified, Level Phi cle...
Karma: 0
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A sniper rifle, even a 50 cal, has 2 instant killzones. Between the eyes and centermast. Anywhere else may be a mortal wound, but if we're talking realistic, infantry weapon ranges should be tripled, tank ranges and damages should be quadrupled and all tanks should have one-hit kills on infantry that are anywhere near a shell when it goes off. But we aren't talking realistic, we're talking fair and play balanced. A n00bjet offsets the play balance too far in favor of the team that has them. A team that has lost their vehicles can still defend against an enemy attack easily, unless the opposing team has a n00bjetter. Then it's only a matter of seconds before the adv. inf defenders are toast and the enemy walks into the base effectively unopposed because basic inf can't defend against a med/flame tank rush.
There was a time when people were impressed that I have the firepower to decimate a planet in under 10 minutes.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125094] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 20:02 |
Chronojam
Messages: 688
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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I purposely hunt n00bjetters, sometimes to the point of ignoring other units I pass on my way even if they give chase...
... and the best part is when the n00bjetters then whine about their death, or brag about a victory where they have 10 health left.
They fucking suck, regardless, and shouldn't be in the game. I don't know why they are there in the first place. They just cause game balance problems.
And somebody mentioned vehicles weaving to avoid fire? That's exactly what I would want in a target. I want them to take their time to come to me. That's more time to get shots in. If I see a humvee zig-zag, I consider it dead. If I see an artillery or MLRS try, lol, they're ultrafucked. Aircraft twirling is the only real kind of vehicular "dodge" but even that doesn't really matter since they have nicely-shaped cockpit areas to hit, and don't take many shots to down with a sniper rifle.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125110] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 20:39 |
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liberator
Messages: 246
Registered: May 2003
Location: Classified, Level Phi cle...
Karma: 0
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I just conducted an impromptu experiment. It proves nothing but illustrates the point.
I loaded a Skirmish00 map against some AI, I don't have broadband at this location. Anyway, I started with a deadeye(gdi 500 sniper) I killed 8 AIs before I died. I then bought a havoc(gdi n00bjet) and proceeded to kill 10 or 12 before i quit. I ran out of ammo, I didn't die. Nor am I the best sniper in the world, as anybody whose played against me can attest(I'm Ayle on the UN servers), I am more of a spray and pray type of player.
There was a time when people were impressed that I have the firepower to decimate a planet in under 10 minutes.
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| Fix the damn gun [message #125111] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 20:42 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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| icedog90 |
Only problem is that teamwork is hard to find in Renegade.
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Sad, but true, not many people wanna team up. Actually, the best team mates are n00bs, they stick together for fear of dying, and they are less likely to go lone wolf or heroic alone style.
No. Seriously. No.
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