Home » Archived Forums » Core Patches » Core Patch Review
| Core Patch Review [message #124071] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 09:45  |
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Gizbotvas
Messages: 172
Registered: February 2003
Location: Madison, WI
Karma: 0
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First off, let me say I think Renguard is amazing. The patch I am sure was necessary, and I appreciate the time and effort put into it's developement and distribution.
The addition of the beacon countdown and C4 timers is great. Many of us had them anyway, so this is a neat way to provide the mod without compromising renguard.
But there are aspects to the Patch of which I am very critical. It seems things were unecessarily added or changed that only detract from the game.
Namely, three things.
First, the font. I am not sure why renguard-developers felt it necessary to change the font. It is more difficult for me to read, and I feel the new font is less appealing, even distracting. Now I sometimes find myself at a Purchase Terminal reviewing chat in a font I can read. you see, Purchase Terminal Chat List is still in the older, easier-to-read font.
Secondly, the screams instead of the "boink"s. Why was that changed? Was the idea to make Renegade seem more "realistic"? I think Renegade does fine with it's cartoony violence, and the screams don't tell me if I killed a player or not. Now I have to now read the chat (in the new font-ug) to see if I got the kill credit or the other player got it.
Finally, "What is with all the noises"? Seriously... I am trying to listen for specific sounds ingame: footsteps, stank engines, APC sounds, and now they are drowned out by the "Building Destruction Eminent" (even if the building is already gone), "Prayer sessions have been moved foward one hour...", C130 engines, Ob charging, and other strange unidentifiable sounds.
I understand that the personal preferences of programmers will be integrated.... but was all that cacophany really essential?
It is the same with the GREAT addition of the red cross that appears over a character crying out "I need repairs"- it is helpful indeed. But then why place icons over a player for "Building Needs Repair"? Why do that? It doesnt help the game in any way. It provides no more information or assistance than the voice command. So the addition is merely ascthetic? Does anyone feel we really needed those?
"Everyone relax...Gizbotvas is here"
Pits moderator
n00bserver moderator
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| Core Patch Review [message #124073] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 09:55  |
SuperTech
Messages: 89
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Wow, you echoed my thoughts exactly! Scary! It would be nice during the patching to pick and choose what add-ons you want (these are add-ons after all).
Speaking of nosies...when the aircraft carrier drops cargo it makes a very annoying noise! Why was this added?
I do, however, love the building needs repaired/has been repaired and beacon countdown mod. The !donate function is also very cool.
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| Core Patch Review [message #124075] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 10:01 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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The radio emoticons are turned on and off by one parameter I guess...
No. Seriously. No.
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| Core Patch Review [message #124182] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 15:24 |
SuperTech
Messages: 89
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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| snipesimo |
The font change HAD to be done to get the patch out the door now instead of later, if you don't like it, try the search function and change it back instead of whining about it.
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Listen Charlie, I didn't ask for the patch to be installed. It installed itself! The ability to change the font should be documented in the release notes.
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| Core Patch Review [message #124268] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 20:08 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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Let me explain how CP1 works technically.
There are two parts - client and server side.
We have fixed two bugs on the client. Emoticons and Sound transmitting over the network.
That is why you hear the obelisk chargeup now, because the FDS is able to tell your client to play that sound. Always has been that way. It's just the client had a bug that prevented sound transmitting.
The other sounds are produced server side by a modification, called SSAOW - Server Side All Out War. A very popular mod. It's included in SSCP1.
SSAOW is sending over the network certain sounds - like building destruction imminent, the cargo plane, building repaired, turret/harvester under attack etc..
So - in short. We're fixing a bugs in renegade, which allow you to hear new sounds. The sounds are coming from the server.
SSAOW is mimicking host-"MP"-mode. That is when you are hosting from the client a game.
You've got the same emoticons there. Even the emoticon for "Building needs repair".
You've got the obelisk chargeup there.
You've got the cargo plane there.
You've got the "Harvester Under Attack" sound there
You've got death screams, plus the usual boink.
You've got "random building announcements"
etc.
Open up a 1Player LAN Game with any map, and verify this, if you want.
All we are doing is to make renegade like it was intended by Westwood. These are no additions, these are bugfixes. They're new for you, because you didn't know they were there the first place. We did.
If you don't like a particular sound, you can place a 0byte -wav file with the particular name into your data dir, muting this sound. I can post filenames, if requested.
And by the way, this is NOT a RenGuard patch. This patch was produced by BlackHand Studios and is completely independent from RenGuard except that we used RenGuard to push the patch. People who don't use RenGuard are able to get the patch in a separate installer available for download.
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| Core Patch Review [message #124287] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 21:59 |
SuperTech
Messages: 89
Registered: March 2003
Karma: 0
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Well, all this makes sense now, but you really cannot sit there and say you are innocent of the problems that are caused by the core patch. If Renguard and Blackhand Studios are two completely different animals then why are you pushing down their modifications to us? How am I suppose know what "core patches" are? I thought core patches were code updates done to RenGuard.
In terms of presenting to us what Westwood "intended": the game has been out for over 2 years and Westwood never addressed these things (probably because they didn't need to be addressed), so I'm not convinced you are fulfilling their intentions.
If someone can tell me how to get rid of the screams and the cargo noise, I would appreciate that!
Thanks.
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| Core Patch Review [message #124290] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 22:11 |
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mac
Messages: 1018
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Administrator/General |
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These things (death sounds and cargo plane sounds) are working in hosting mode. Thus, it was intended, but never fixed, as many things.
BHS has produced RenGuard as well as CP1, but these are different projects, not related to each other. I just want to point out that this is not a "RenGuard Patch", but a Renegade Patch. It patches renegade, not RenGuard
I think the orginal popup question that RenGuard does specifically states that these are updates for Renegade, not RenGuard. RenGuard's auto update feature cannot be disabled, since its automatic.
And no, we're not sitting back, as you can see.
If you want to remove emoticons and working MP-sounds (and all other engine bugfixes), you can make a copy of scripts.dll, and rename scripts2.dll to scripts.dll. Voila, no more sounds for you.
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danpaul88: buggy bugs brenbot because buggy befriends brainlessness
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| Core Patch Review [message #124291] |
Sat, 04 December 2004 22:16 |
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glyde51
Messages: 1827
Registered: August 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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One: WestWood is dead.
Two: RenGuard is OWNED by BlackHand Studios.
Three: It is the way it was supposed to be with Core Patch One in affect. There is a problem with the original WW patches, but WW was dying, and EA wanted Renegade dead.
You see, BlackHand Studios knows this game better than anyone. No one knows it better, except for the defeated programmers and WW staff that are now fired.
No. Seriously. No.
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| Re: Core Patch Review [message #124306] |
Sun, 05 December 2004 01:35 |
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Blazer
Messages: 3322
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (3 Stars)
Administrator/General |
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First I will start off with the saying, "You cannot please all of the people all of the time". In other words no matter how carefully we surveyed all the players to see what they wanted, no matter how many seemed to agree, there are always going to be a few who complain about things. This being said, Im not surprised that you don't love every aspect of CP1, but you may be suprised that the majority of people like the majority of things in CP1.
| Gizbotvas |
First, the font. I am not sure why Renguard-developers felt it necessary to change the font. It is more difficult for me to read, and I feel the new font is less appealing, even distracting. Now I sometimes find myself at a Purchase Terminal reviewing chat in a font I can read. you see, Purchase Terminal Chat List is still in the older, easier-to-read font.
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We have provided an explanation as to why the font was changed, as well as instructions to revert it back to normal. I think in CP2 we will take a different approach with the loadscreen text, and go back to the default font.
| Gizbotvas |
Secondly, the screams instead of the "boink"s. Why was that changed? Was the idea to make Renegade seem more "realistic"? I think Renegade does fine with it's cartoony violence, and the screams don't tell me if I killed a player or not. Now I have to now read the chat (in the new font-ug) to see if I got the kill credit or the other player got it.
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The boinks were not removed, the screams are extra sounds heard locally when someone dies near you. The boink is still there and not changed.
| Gizbotvas |
Finally, "What is with all the noises"? Seriously... I am trying to listen for specific sounds ingame: footsteps, stank engines, APC sounds, and now they are drowned out by the "Building Destruction Eminent" (even if the building is already gone), "Prayer sessions have been moved foward one hour...", C130 engines, Ob charging, and other strange unidentifiable sounds.
I understand that the personal preferences of programmers will be integrated.... but was all that cacophany really essential?
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The new sounds have nothing to do with prefernces of the programmers...in fact I dont like the interior building sounds myself. However, we fixed a bug that was previously preventing these sounds from broadcasting from the server to the clients, so it enabled a whole array of sounds, from the obelisk charging to the plane engines. These sound events were already in the game and Greg Hjelstom himself once told me it was a bug that was keeping these things from playing in MP mode. A bug they intended to fix but never happened since as we all know Westwood got shut down.
| Gizbotvas |
It is the same with the GREAT addition of the red cross that appears over a character crying out "I need repairs"- it is helpful indeed. But then why place icons over a player for "Building Needs Repair"? Why do that? It doesnt help the game in any way. It provides no more information or assistance than the voice command. So the addition is merely ascthetic? Does anyone feel we really needed those?
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The emoticons are an all-or-nothing thing. We simply enabled them as they should be. We didn't pick which ones, or the icons themselves. What you see is what Westwood intended.
Again to reiterate the "you cannot please all of the people all of the time", if we somehow could remove the building needs repair emoticon just to satisfy you, there will surely be 3 other people ready to voice their complaint as to why they want it to stay in there.
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| Core Patch Review [message #124823] |
Mon, 06 December 2004 23:00 |
Alkaline
Messages: 1132
Registered: November 2003
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Deleted |
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The biggest problems with CP1 are the buggy Server side scripts
and the Poor selection of maps which didn't include maps from Titan, SlashOx, Sanda, Halo38, SomeRhino and other exellent mappers.
I say CP2 be include only maps chosen by people and mandatory has 4 maps by Titan, cause they rock. 
http://www.UNRules.com
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| Core Patch Review [message #124854] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 01:48 |
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Crimson
Messages: 7429
Registered: February 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Karma: 0
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General (5 Stars)
ADMINISTRATOR |
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SomeRhino fixed the bugs in Siege.
I'm the bawss.
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| Core Patch Review [message #125079] |
Tue, 07 December 2004 19:31 |
Hulkcore
Messages: 64
Registered: April 2004
Karma: 0
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While the new font IS ugly, I do like that all the morons with the l10oOIll etc... names are now simply to read and kick when needed. I know this was intended, and in my opinion is appreciated.
Also, I don't have a link to, but if someone does, Blazer's BlazeRotate is an easy way to change sounds around, although I don't know if the MP sounds that got fixed are in it.
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| Core Patch Review [message #155167] |
Wed, 18 May 2005 16:42 |
mision08
Messages: 525
Registered: May 2005
Location: Cattle Drive, Dallas to F...
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Quote: |
If you don't like a particular sound, you can place a 0byte -wav file with the particular name into your data dir, muting this sound. I can post filenames, if requested.
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Please post the cargo plane and where i can find it.
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| Core Patch Review [message #155240] |
Thu, 19 May 2005 04:58 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star) |
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I'd tell you to use private messaging instead of bumping this old post but....you can't even spell mission right....and your post makes no sense, it doesn't look like you really read what you are quoting.
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| Core Patch Review [message #155279] |
Thu, 19 May 2005 09:50 |
dead6re
Messages: 602
Registered: September 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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Westwood never addressed them because they got shut down over a year ago! And I have documented proof that everything we fixed were known bugs to Westwood that they intended to fix, had they stayed in business. We simply fixed the things that were supposed to work.
***
This doc public, or able to to be released. i wouldnt mind reading what they wanted to fix.
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Lol. That's how come people go "WTF?" when I snipe them as SBHs. 
