Home » General Discussions » Heated Discussions and Debates » How Bush will steal the 2004 Election...
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105348] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:22   |
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SencneS
Messages: 23
Registered: February 2003
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I'd like to point out that if any country sends in troops and military to "Free its people from the current Govenment" is called a coup d'etat.
Although its dictionary definition is
coup d'é·tat ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k d-tä)
n. pl. coups d'état (k) or coup d'états (d-täz)
The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority.
This is illegal for other countries to do. Samala (SP) is a sovran state of the United States of America. When Clinton sent troops over it was not an act of war but to protect agenst a Civil war or a coup d'etat.
Iraq is not a sovran state of the USA non are it's residents. To sent military forces into another country to FREE it's citizen from the current govenment is no worse then a local group of Terroriest trying to overthrow the govenment. Bush and his military machine performed a coup d'etat on a another non-sovran state. THAT is illegal on so many signed documents and peace treadies that the entire world's govenments signed that now make up the UN.
What Bush did was illegal on so many levels it's not funny. If anything he should be tried as a war criminal.
SencneS
[Updated on: Sat, 31 July 2004 21:24] Report message to a moderator |
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105351] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:27 |
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Doitle
Messages: 1723
Registered: February 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
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If bush wanted to go to Iraq for a really cool rock, I'd trust his leadership skills. I bet it'd be a really bitchin rock too.
Especially if we were goin in for live rock ;P Nodbugger lol
That one's pretty cool.
[Updated on: Sat, 31 July 2004 21:29] Report message to a moderator |
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105352] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:28 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
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| warranto |
| Nodbugger |
| warranto |
So a reason for going to war was to free the Iraqi people. Interesting. Though I would have to see some proof to evaluate that statement. Oh, and don't bother quoting what you did before, because as Javaxcx and I have shown, those aren't reasons for going to war, but rather a side effect of it.
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Repercussion, the Freedom of Iraqis is not an in-direct affect.
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And what does that have to do with my statement of wanting proof that the reason for going to war was so that the citezens of Iraq would be freed? I also never once mentioned the word "in-direct effect", I said side effect. These is a difference there. An In-direct effect would be one that occured where it was related to, but not as a result of the actions taken. An imaginary example would be, Because of the war on Iraq, the son of a freed citezen grows up to discover Cold-Fusion. It could of only happened because of the war, but was not a result of the war. A side effect on the other hand, is an expected result of an action taken. The next time you watch a comercial for a new type of medicine, listen to it. What phrase is uttered when they state things that could happen to you if you take it. That's right, "side effects may include..." They're expected to occure because of the action taken.
In this case, the "War on Terrorism" (note not 'War to free Iraq') is to remove Saddam from power. A side effect (as it was not the initial reason for going to war [WMD's and terrorism were]) of this is that the Iraqi people will be free from Saddam.
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If you even read the definition of repercussion you would know what in-direct effect was.
And the operation for Iraq was called Operation Iraqi freedom. If you paid any attention at all you would know this. they dubbed it this before we ever invaded.
And no it is not a side effect. It is a reason. Our reason was that we can liberate the Iraqi people if we invade.
It is a reason for the invasion and an accomplishment of the invasion.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105354] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:39 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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Nodbugger, what you quoted Bush saying was everything that would happen as a RESULT of the war. NOT ONCE did he say, "We are going to invade Iraq to free it's people!"
-his regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people.
No reason for war stated...
-Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them: If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you.
Nothing stated here about freeing the people as a reason for war, just that the peopel won't be targets..
-As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free.
'During the war, we will help you', no reason for going to war stated here either.
-In free Iraq there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms.
Here he states what will happen after the war, not the reason for going to war.
-The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.
'When Saddam is gone, and you'll be free' once again, not a statement for a reason of going to war, just a statement of what will happen as a result.
-It is too late for Saddam Hussein to remain in power. It is not too late for the Iraq military to act with honor and protect your country, by permitting the peaceful entry of coalition forces to eliminate weapons of mass destruction. Our forces will give Iraqi military units clear instructions on actions they can take to avoid being attack and destroyed.
Nothing here as well. All he says is that Saddam will be removed.
-Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty, and when the dictator has departed, they can set an example to all the Middle East of a vital and peaceful and self-governing nation.
Once again, what will happen after the war is over. Nothing stated as a reason for going to war.
-The United States with other countries will work to advance liberty and peace in that region. Our goal will not be achieved overnight, but it can come over time. The power and appeal of human liberty is felt in every life and every land, and the greatest power of freedom is to overcome hatred and violence, and turn the creative gifts of men and women to the pursuits of peace. That is the future we choose.
This one would be the closest, but not quite. Oddly enough he doesn't specify the Iraqi people being saved, but rather "peace in that region". But considering it's a "War on Terrorism", all that could stand for is to get rid of all the terrorists "in that region"
-Free nations have a duty to defend our people by uniting against the violent, and tonight, as we have done before, America and our allies accept that responsibility.
Notice the "Our People"? Not once is it stated that Iraqi people are the reason, but rather to protect "Our People"
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105356] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:45 |
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SencneS
Messages: 23
Registered: February 2003
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Nodbugger you're the idiot..
I am not posting opinion I am posting what coup d'etat.
You yourself said "The war was about free the people" Did you even look at the definition you stupid ass.
:The sudden overthrow of a government:
Does Saddam still control Iraq's govenment? No.
Is Saddam still considered in the govenment? No.
What happen to Saddam to lose his govenement? He was overthrow by the use of Military Force.
Who controlled that military force? President and Commander and Chief of the United States of America.
Who is the President and Commander and Chief of the United States of America? George W. Bush.
As commander of a military force under current USA military code of conduct. Is said Commander responsible for any actions taken by anyone under his command? Yes
Did the United States of America military force oversee or partake the military actions of Iraq on Iraq soil? Yes
Was the outcome of the military task the result of Loss of current Govenment? Yes
Was the loss of Current Govenment requested by the citizen of Iraq though proper channels or requested to the UN for assistance? No.
hmmm.... Sounds like a coup d'etat and guess what - That's illegal. Ask any military personal over in Iraq. Is it your duty to perform your action as directed by your commanding officer? They will say "YES"
Since the Commanding officer takes resposibility of the actions of his/her soldgers it leads back to Bush... HE is telling the troops to overthrow the Iraq govenment HE is responsible HE is a war ciminal.
Plain and simple - if you think otherwise you're a moron.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105357] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:48 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
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| warranto |
Nodbugger, what you quoted Bush saying was everything that would happen as a RESULT of the war. NOT ONCE did he say, "We are going to invade Iraq to free it's people!"
-his regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people.
No reason for war stated...
-Many Iraqis can hear me tonight in a translated radio broadcast, and I have a message for them: If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you.
Nothing stated here about freeing the people as a reason for war, just that the peopel won't be targets..
-As our coalition takes away their power, we will deliver the food and medicine you need. We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free.
'During the war, we will help you', no reason for going to war stated here either.
-In free Iraq there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms.
Here he states what will happen after the war, not the reason for going to war.
-The tyrant will soon be gone. The day of your liberation is near.
'When Saddam is gone, and you'll be free' once again, not a statement for a reason of going to war, just a statement of what will happen as a result.
-It is too late for Saddam Hussein to remain in power. It is not too late for the Iraq military to act with honor and protect your country, by permitting the peaceful entry of coalition forces to eliminate weapons of mass destruction. Our forces will give Iraqi military units clear instructions on actions they can take to avoid being attack and destroyed.
Nothing here as well. All he says is that Saddam will be removed.
-Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty, and when the dictator has departed, they can set an example to all the Middle East of a vital and peaceful and self-governing nation.
Once again, what will happen after the war is over. Nothing stated as a reason for going to war.
-The United States with other countries will work to advance liberty and peace in that region. Our goal will not be achieved overnight, but it can come over time. The power and appeal of human liberty is felt in every life and every land, and the greatest power of freedom is to overcome hatred and violence, and turn the creative gifts of men and women to the pursuits of peace. That is the future we choose.
This one would be the closest, but not quite. Oddly enough he doesn't specify the Iraqi people being saved, but rather "peace in that region". But considering it's a "War on Terrorism", all that could stand for is to get rid of all the terrorists "in that region"
-Free nations have a duty to defend our people by uniting against the violent, and tonight, as we have done before, America and our allies accept that responsibility.
Notice the "Our People"? Not once is it stated that Iraqi people are the reason, but rather to protect "Our People"
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I feel sorry for your mother.
Every single one of those is a reason.
Do you not understand that.
Hey we want to free the Iraqis so we are going to invade and get rid of Saddam?
You people are just bush haters, not matter how much evidence I give you you will never be satisfied because of your blind ideology.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105359] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:50 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Nodbugger |
If you even read the definition of repercussion you would know what in-direct effect was.
And the operation for Iraq was called Operation Iraqi freedom. If you paid any attention at all you would know this. they dubbed it this before we ever invaded.
And no it is not a side effect. It is a reason. Our reason was that we can liberate the Iraqi people if we invade.
It is a reason for the invasion and an accomplishment of the invasion.
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Ah, ok, so your right about Javaxcx meaning indirect. It doesn't mean anything, as I SPECIFIED side-effect.
Interesting how "Iraqi Freedom" Has everything to do with Weapons of Mass Destruction and Terrorist ties. I'd think "Iraqi Freedom" would mean simply freeing a people..."
Well, there's one person who passed among the top of his class in the school of Blind-Follower.
As for your retort to Senc, it's complete garbage. If Hitler came into Pwer after the UN was formed, I'm sure the UN would have resolved that it was ok for the war to occur, if not, REGARDLESS OF THE REASON, it would still be illegal to go to war.
Here is a question for you: A starving Child steals a loaf of bread to feed his equally starving family. Was it illegal for him to steal it or not?
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105363] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 21:59 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Karma: 0
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General (2 Stars) |
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| Nodbugger |
I feel sorry for your mother.
Every single one of those is a reason.
Do you not understand that.
Hey we want to free the Iraqis so we are going to invade and get rid of Saddam?
You people are just bush haters, not matter how much evidence I give you you will never be satisfied because of your blind ideology.
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Ah, can't think of anything better to say, so you attempt to insult my mother?
If it were a REASON for going to war, Bush would have said "We are going to war to free the iraqi people!" Instead he stated. " We are going to war because Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction and ties to Terrorism!"
Never ONCE in all the news I have read about it was "Freeing Iraq" a stated reason.
Oh yes...
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You people are just bush haters, not matter how much evidence I give you you will never be satisfied because of your blind ideology.
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Crimson, Blazer, Aircraftkiller, Javaxcx and the rest of you, I hate you! I disagree with something you did, so I automatically hate you now! :rolleyes:
I mean, grow up nodbugger. If you want to talk about blind ideologies, look at yourself. You read into whatever Someone says inorder for it to agree with your idea's. Look at it word for word and tell me it states that freeing iraq is a reason for going to war. NOWHERE does it say that. Not ONCE in ALL you quoted did it say "We are going to war to free you". ALL it states is that "Because of the war, you will be free". Thats a BIG difference.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105365] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:03 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| warranto |
| Nodbugger |
If you even read the definition of repercussion you would know what in-direct effect was.
And the operation for Iraq was called Operation Iraqi freedom. If you paid any attention at all you would know this. they dubbed it this before we ever invaded.
And no it is not a side effect. It is a reason. Our reason was that we can liberate the Iraqi people if we invade.
It is a reason for the invasion and an accomplishment of the invasion.
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Ah, ok, so your right about Javaxcx meaning indirect. It doesn't mean anything, as I SPECIFIED side-effect.
Interesting how "Iraqi Freedom" Has everything to do with Weapons of Mass Destruction and Terrorist ties. I'd think "Iraqi Freedom" would mean simply freeing a people..."
Well, there's one person who passed among the top of his class in the school of Blind-Follower.
As for your retort to Senc, it's complete garbage. If Hitler came into Pwer after the UN was formed, I'm sure the UN would have resolved that it was ok for the war to occur, if not, REGARDLESS OF THE REASON, it would still be illegal to go to war.
Here is a question for you: A starving Child steals a loaf of bread to feed his equally starving family. Was it illegal for him to steal it or not?
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Iraqi Freedom was the name of the operation. As operation Over lord d-day and Operation Desert Storm was the Gulf War.
Bush did not name it. The military named it. I have 35 t-shirts my dad and other friends in Iraq bought there that say Operation Iraq Freedom on them.
How in any way am I a blind follower? Who Am I following blindly? Saddam was an asshole. If any other president was in charge and did the same thing as Bush I would support that decision.
I do not blindly follow people.
Why would they vote for it? In 1933 if the UN was around Hitler hadn't done anything wrong yet. Fast Forward to 1939 and so far, what we know about, has has done exactly what Saddam has done. And that was enough to start a war.
After that we found out he murdered 12 million people.
If you knew were in charge in 1933 and you knew what Hitler was going to do would you pre-emptively attack him?
Now after getting rid of Saddam we no longer have to wonder what he may do. The most he can do now is walk 4 week in any direction.
And yes, stealing is stealing. how ever we did not break any law.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105366] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:09 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| warranto |
| Nodbugger |
I feel sorry for your mother.
Every single one of those is a reason.
Do you not understand that.
Hey we want to free the Iraqis so we are going to invade and get rid of Saddam?
You people are just bush haters, not matter how much evidence I give you you will never be satisfied because of your blind ideology.
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Ah, can't think of anything better to say, so you attempt to insult my mother?
If it were a REASON for going to war, Bush would have said "We are going to war to free the iraqi people!" Instead he stated. " We are going to war because Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction and ties to Terrorism!"
Never ONCE in all the news I have read about it was "Freeing Iraq" a stated reason.
Oh yes...
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You people are just bush haters, not matter how much evidence I give you you will never be satisfied because of your blind ideology.
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Crimson, Blazer, Aircraftkiller, Javaxcx and the rest of you, I hate you! I disagree with something you did, so I automatically hate you now! :rolleyes:
I mean, grow up nodbugger. If you want to talk about blind ideologies, look at yourself. You read into whatever Someone says inorder for it to agree with your idea's. Look at it word for word and tell me it states that freeing iraq is a reason for going to war. NOWHERE does it say that. Not ONCE in ALL you quoted did it say "We are going to war to free you". ALL it states is that "Because of the war, you will be free". Thats a BIG difference.
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If it was not a reason...why was it mentioned so many times.
And for a big 'duh factor' here, in order for us the Free Iraq we had to invade. You could not flip that around. Liberation is a product of invasion. How ever our reason for invasion was the product of liberation.
It goes back to my cake analogy.
For you to get a cake you need to put ingredients together. You cannot flip it around. So in order to a get a cake you need to mix the ingredients. your reason for mixing the ingredients was to form a cake.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105367] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:16 |
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warranto
Messages: 2584
Registered: February 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
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General (2 Stars) |
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hmm.. now you've confused me. I though you were saying that the name was designed so because the purpose of the war was to free Iraq. So using that logic, "Operation Overlord" was an operation to... Over the Lord? Thats the only reason I could think of for you to make the connection between the two... Here's a hint: the name of the operation does not automatically mean it's the purpose of the Operation.
Your right, in 1933 when Hitler was doing whatever, noone would have done anything. Infact, no one DID anything. Using the past "if you knew" doesn't hold any strength in any sort of arguement. But if you want to... Why didn't Bush go to war as soon as he came to office? I mean, Saddam had already been in power for a while, and everyone knew the stuff he had done. Infact, why didn't Bush Sr do something about it seeing as he was mere miles from his front door?
Infact, if you want to argue semantics about Hitler, the US sat back and WATCHED Hitler murder thousands, only entering the war when Japan attacked, and Germany declared war on the US as a result of the two countries being allies. Millions of people dead, and the United States of America did absolutely nothing about it, even though they knew what was going on...
stealing is stealing, and yes that means the thief broke the law. I'm glad you can see that. It's unfortunate however that you fail to see how it connects to the topic at hand. The UN had stated that the US could not enter Iraq (Bush even recognized this in one of his speaches [Javaxcx has it, perhaps he can enlighten you to it's content]), yes the chose to do so, Violating the UN's desicion... the law was broken right then and there, regardless of the "noble" and "Virtuous" reasons Bush had.
Edit: as it's a short retort to what you just posted, I'll do this rather than make a new post. Since when did "outcome" automatically mean "reason" as you seem to suggest by your cake analogy? Just because 'freedom' was an outcome doesn't mean it was the reason for going in. As for the cake analogy, it's flawed in regards to this anyways. Look at it like this:
I'm assuming cake=freedom here.
Try baking a cake by puting a cake in first.. it doesn't work does it? Freedom was an outcome of the war (a side effect, but an outcome). It wasn't a reason for the war though, for the reasons I've given many times over.
[Updated on: Sat, 31 July 2004 22:23] Report message to a moderator |
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105368] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:16 |
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Javaxcx
Messages: 1943
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
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General (1 Star) |
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| Nodbugger |
'An often indirect effect, influence, or result that is produced by an event or action.'
The Liberation of the Iraqi people was not an indirect effect. It was not an influence. It was produced by an event or action.
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Yeah, too bad that is exactly what a repercussion is. And you've solidly disproven yourself and acknowlegded my point. The reason to go to war, as stated by your President, was to disarm Iraq. The REPERCUSSION (side-effect, indirect action, consequence, what have you!) of that disarmiment IS THAT IRAQ'S PEOPLE ARE FREE FROM SADDAM'S TYRANNY. You seem to be forgetting, and often misunderstanding, that your president did NOT say "we are going to Iraq to free the people". My God, he doesn't even infer that! Why is this so hard for you to grasp!?
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Our goal was to free the Iraqi people and get rid of Saddam. In order to do that we must invade.
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A goal and a reason are not the same thing.
Goal
n. The final purpose or aim; the end to which a design tends, or which a person aims to reach or attain.
reason
n.
The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction.
A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction
Your goal in school might be to get a high mark. That is not your reason you're going to school. Your reason might be any number of things: complete school, get a good job, etc.
Stop arguing with words you don't even know how to use.
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For every action their is an equal and opposite reaction.
We invade they got liberated. One of our reasons for invasion was for the goal of liberation to be accomplished.
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THAT IS A REPERCUSSION.
Cause: Invade Iraq on pretense of disarmament.
Effect: No weapons (at all, really)
No Saddam
Iraqi Freedom
That does NOT equate to "liberation = reason". You are perverting the English language.
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I do not care what 'ETYMOLOGY' says. I am saying our goal in Iraq was to Get rid of Saddam and Liberate Iraqis.
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Etymology tells you how to use language. Something you obviously have difficulty with. YOU yourself can have goals of liberating Iraq, but they are not reasons to go to Iraq. Your President said that the weapons were the reason, not the people.
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I also do not care what the charter says. As I have said before. A Security Resolution totally over rides everything else. a Vote is not necessary to enact on a Resolution. We just wanted to tell them our idea and we will do it if they vote or not.
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Sorry friend, the law says otherwise. Stop ignoring the link to the Charter I provided. It will clarify everything for you.
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The UN failed to do their job. So we did it for them.
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You are not authorized by the laws you agreed to invade Iraq. The charter clarifies this, and so does this document I'm reading. It's pretty good.
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In no way was it illegal.
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Yes it was. You're pertaining to your ignorance again, kid.
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Saddam was illegal. Saddam is the one you should be protesting. He is the war criminal.
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I don't need to protest Saddam anymore. It is unequivocally agreed by a large majority (including myself) that Saddam was evil.
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Oh ya, Republican are so much More evil than murderous genocidal dictators.
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Nope, there you go with your generalizations again. Crimson is republican, and I don't think she is evil.
Sniper Extraordinaire
Read the FUD Rules before you come in and make an ass of yourself.
All your base are belong to us.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105370] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:24 |
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Doitle
Messages: 1723
Registered: February 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Karma: 0
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General (1 Star)
Moderator/Captain |
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World War II
Agreement (1942) - British landing in North Africa
Alphabet - (year?) evacuation of British troops from Norway
Ambassador (1940) - British commando raid on Guernsey
Amherst (1945) - British airborne raid in the Netherlands
Anvil (1944) - invasion of Southern France. Name later changed to Dragoon
Anthropoid (1942) British assassination of Reinhard Heydrich.
Archery (1941) - British commando raid on Maaloy, Norway
Artur ("Arthur") (1941) - German plan to support IRA activities
Attila (1940) - German seizure and occupation of Vichy France
Avalanche (year?) - Allied landings near Salerno, Italy
Boardman (year?) - deception operation for Avalanche
Barbarossa (1941) - German invasion of the Soviet Union
Platinfuchs ("Platinum Fox") (1941) - German attack towards Murmansk from Finnish Petsamo
Polarfuchs ("Polar Fox") (1941) - German attack towards Kandalaksha from Finnish Lapland
Basalt (1942) - British raid on Sark
Baytown - Allied landings in Calabria, Italy
Bertram - part of the Second Battle of El Alamein
Begonia (1943) - British POW rescue in Italy
Birke ("Birch") (1944) - German plan to withdraw from northern Finland prior to the Lapland War
Birkhahn ("Black Cock") (1945) - German withdrawal from Norway
Biting (1942) - Commando raid on radar site in France
Blau ("Case Blue") (1942) - German offensive in the southern USSR
Blücher (1942) - German campaign in the Caucasus
Bodenplatte ("Baseplate") (1945) - German aerial attack on 27 Allied airbases
Büffel (1940) - German operation to relieve troops in Narvik, Norway.
Candytuft (1943) - British raid on the Italian east coast
Canuck (1945) - SAS operation near Turin
Cerberus (1942) - escape of German capital ships from Brest to home ports in Germany
Chariot (1942) - British raid on Saint Nazaire
Chastise (1943) - attack on German dams
Clawhammer (1942) - planned commando raid on a radar site in France
Claymore (1941) - British raid on Norwegian islands
Cobra (1944) - American breakout from Normandy
Dunhill (1944) - SAS operations in Normandy to support Cobra
Cold Comfort (1945) - British raid on rail lines in Italy
Colossus (1941) - airborne raid against rail targets in Italy
Compass (1940) - British counteroffensive in North Africa
Cooney - French commando raid
Crusader (1941) - British attempt to relieve Tobruk
Deadlight (1945) - postwar scuttling of U-boats
Defoe (1944) - SAS patrols in Normandy
Donnerschlag ("Thunderclap") (1942) - planned breakout of the German 6th Army from Stalingrad
Downfall (1945) - planned invasion of Japan
Olympic (planned for 1945, not executed) - first of two prongs of the invasion of Japan
Coronet (planned for 1945, not executed) - second of two prongs of the invasion of Japan
Dragoon (1944) - Allied landing in southern France
Dove - gliderborne component of Dragoon
Span - deception operation in support of Dragoon
Driftwood (1944) - failed raid on rail targets north of Rome
Drumbeat (1942) - German U-boat attack on east coast shipping of the United States
Dynamo (1940) - British evacuation from Dunkirk
Edelweiss (1942) - proposed German capture of the oil fields of Baku
Eisenhammer (1943) - plan to destroy Soviet power generators in Moscow and Gorky (not the same as Iron Hammer)
Epsom (1944) - British assault west of Caen, Normandy
Fall Blau ("Case Blue") (1942) - German offensive in the southern USSR
Fall Gelb ("Case Yellow") (1940) - German offensive against western Europe
Fall Gruen ("Case Green") (year?) - the German invasion of Czechoslovakia
Fall Rot ("Case Red") (1935) - German defense plan in case of an incursion by France when Czechoslovakia is invaded
Fall Weiss ("Case White") (1939) - German invasion of Poland
Felix (1940-41) - planned German invasion of Gibraltar
Feuerzauber ("Fire Magic") (1942) - planned German capture of Leningrad
Fischereiher ("Heron") (1942) - German offensive to capture Stalingrad
Fortitude (1944) - Allied deception in Europe
Foxley (year?) - a plan to kill Adolf Hitler that was never carried out
Frankton (1942) - commando raid on shipping port in France
Frühlingserwachen ("Spring Awakening") (1945) - German counterattack against Russian forces in Hungary
Gaff (1944) - attempt to kill Erwin Rommel
Gauntlet (1941) - raid on Spitzbergen
Goodwood (1944) - British breakout attempt from Normandy
Greif ("Grab") (1944) - German troops disguised as Allied soldiers during Battle of the Bulge
Grenade (1945) - American/Canadian crossing of the Rhine
Grün [1] ("Green") (year?) - the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia
Grün [2] ("Green") (1940) - decoy invasion of Ireland in conjunction with Seelöwe
Gunnerside (1943) - raid on a Norwegian heavy water plant
Habakkuk (year?) - project to construct an aircraft carrier out of ice
Operation Herbstnebel
Herbstreise ("Autumn Journey") (1940) - decoy invasion of Scotland
Herkules (1942) - planned Axis airborne invasion of Malta
Wacht am Rhein ("Watch on the Rhine") (1944) - German counteroffensive in the Ardennes (in Belgium, Luxembourg and France); the Battle of the Bulge
Husky (1943) - Allied invasion of Sicily
Ikarus (1940) - planned German invasion of Iceland
Juno (1940) - German naval operation to disturb allied supplies to Norway.
Lachsfang (1942) - Proposed combined German and Finnish attack against against Kandalaksha and Belomorsk.
Lightfoot (1942) - first attack by the British at El Alamein
Lost (1944) - British raid on Brittany
Loyton (1944) - large SAS patrol in French mountains
Marita (1941) - German invasion of Greece
Margarethe (1944) - German operation to keep Hungary from defecting
Manhattan Project ( -1945) - American program to build an atomic bomb
Market Garden (1944) - Allied airborne attempt to cross the lower Rhine
Merkur ("Mercury") (1941) - German invasion of Crete
Mondscheinsonate ("Moonlight Sonata") (1940) - German aerial raid on Coventry
Morgenrote ("Dawn") (1944) - German counterattack against Anzio landings
Narcissus (1943) - British commando raid
Nelson (1944) - cancelled SAS patrol in France
Newton (1944) - SAS raid in France
Nordlicht [1] ("Northern Lights") (1942) - planned German assault on Leningrad
Nordlicht [2] ("Northern Lights") (1944) - German withdrawal from the Kola Peninsula into Norway
Nordwind ("North Wind") (1945) - German offensive in the Alsace
Overlord (1944) - Allied landings in Normandy
Bodyguard - overall deception plan
Detroit - American airdrop in Normandy
Chicago - American airdrop in Normandy
Dingson - Free French commando raid
Tonga - British airdrop in Normandy
Neptune - landing phase of Overlord
Maple - Allied naval minesweeping operations
Gambit - British midget submarine operations
Lüttich - German counter-offensive at Mortain
Pegasus (1944) - Allied rescue of troops after failure of Market Garden
Paperclip (1945) - part-military, part-scientific operation to scoop up Nazi scientists, engineers, experiments, prototypes, data, etc., after WWII
Paukenschlag ("Beat of the Kettle Drum") (1942) - German U-boat offensive on the east coast of the United States
Pedestal Allied convoy to Malta.
Plunder (1945) - British crossing of the Rhine
Archway - SAS operation to support Plunder
Varsity - airborne crossing in conjunction with Plunder
Pluto (year?) - construction of undersea oil pipelines between England and France
Reinhard (1943) - German reprisals for Anthropoid
Renntier ("Reindeer") (1941) - German occupation of Finnish Petsamo
Rheinübung ("Exercise Rhine") (1941) - German attacks on Allied shipping conducted by Bismarck and Prinz Eugen
Rösselsprung [1] ("Knights Move") (1942) - German naval campaign to sink Arctic convoys
Rösselsprung [2] ("Knights Move") (1944) - German attempt to capture Josip Broz Tito
Roundup (1942) - planned Allied landings in France
Seelöwe ("Sea Lion") (1940) - planned German invasion of Britain
Adler ("Eagle") - German air offensive
Grün [2] ("Green") (1940) - decoy invasion of Ireland in conjunction with Seelöwe
Herbstreise ("Autumn Journey") - decoy invasion of Scotland in conjunction with Seelöwe.
Shingle (1944) - Allied landings at Anzio
Baobab - commando raid in support of Shingle
Chettyford - deception plan to support Shingle
Pomegranate (1944) - Raid in support of Shingle
Sledgehammer (1942) - planned Allied landings in France
Sonneblume - movement of German troops to north Africa as a result of the British Compass
Sonnenwende ("Winter Solstice") (1945) - German offensive to relieve Pomerania from Russian forces and halt advance on Berlin
Supercharge (1942) - second attack by British at El Alamein
Taifun ("Typhoon") (1941) - German autumn offensive to capture Moscow
Tanne Ost (1944 ) - failed German attempt to capture Suursaari from Finland
Tanne West (1944) - planned German attempt to capture the Åland Islands from Finland
Tannenbaum - The planned German invasion of Switzerland.
Theseus (1942) - German offensive to drive Allies out of Cyrenaica and Egypt
Tiger (1944) - Allied training prior D-Day, near Slapton, England
Tombola (1945) - SAS raid in Italy
Torch (1942) - Allied landings in North Africa
Totalize (1944) - Allied effort to trap German armor in Normandy
Watchtower (1942) - U.S. invasion of Guadalcanal
Weiss (1939) - German invasion of Poland.
Weserübung ("Weser Exercise") (1940) - German invasion of Denmark and Norway
Wintergewitter ("Winter Storm") (1942) - German attempt to relieve encircled 6th Army at Stalingrad
Zitadelle ("Citadel") (1943) - German counteroffensive at Kursk
Zitronella (1943) - German raid against a Norwegian/British station on Svalbard.
Zombie (1941) - airborne raid against rail targets in Italy
Cold War Era
Agatha (1946) - British attack on Hagana and Irgun in Palestine
Ajax (1953) - Anglo-British plan for coup in Iran
Anadyr - Soviet plan to base nuclear weapons in Cuba; the cause of the Cuban Missile Crisis
Argus (1959) - test of nuclear bombs in the upper atmosphere
Attila (1974) - Turkish invasion and occupation of northern Cyprus
Balak (1948) - smuggling of arms to Israel
Blowdown (1963) - Australia/US/UK simulated nuclear explosion in a rain forest
Claret (1964) - British patrols into Indonesia
El Dorado Canyon (1986) - US strikes against Libya
Earnest Will (1987-88) - American protection of Kuwaiti oil tankers in the Persian Gulf during the Iran-Iraq War
Praying Mantis (1988) - U.S. retaliates against Iran for mining frigate.
Prime Chance (1987-88) - Special operations to protect Kuwaiti tankers, run largely from barges in the northern Persian Gulf.
Entebbe (1976) - Israeli rescue operation at Entebbe, Uganda. Later renamed Jonathan
Evening Light (1980) - US attempt to rescue embassy hostages in Tehran
Gold (1954) - covert American tunnel under the Berlin Wall
Golden Pheasant (1988) - US deployment in Honduras
Horev (1948) - Israeli attack in northern Israel
Jonathan (1976) - rescue of hostages at Entebbe, Uganda
Just Cause (1989) - US invasion of Panama
Mongoose (1962) - plan for information gathering, sabotage, civil insurrection and the overthrown of the Cuban government
Nimrod (1980) - rescue of hostages in the Iranian embassy, London
Northwoods (1960s) - plan to incite war between the United States and Cuba
Orion (1960) - DARPA project to design a nuclear pulse propulsion system
Peter Pan (1960s) - transfer of Cubans to the U.S.
Power Pack (1965) - U.S. deployment in the Dominican Republic
Provide Comfort (1991) - relief effort in northern Iraq
Restore Hope (1992) - American name for UNITAF, humanitarian intervention in Somalia
Silver (year?) - covert British tunnel in Austria
Suzannah (1954) - Israeli plan to bomb American interests in Egypt
Urgent Fury (1983) - U.S. invasion of Grenada
Vittles (1948) - Berlin Airlift
Operation Planefare - British part of the Berlin Airlift
Post-Cold War
Addition (2000) - Canada's contribution to the United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea (UNMEE)
Anaconda (2002) - U.S. sweep in Afghanistan
Apollo (2002) - the Canadian Navy's operations in support of United States forces in Afghanistan
Assistance (1997) - Canadian assistance to Manitoba after major flooding
Athena (2003) - Canadian Forces contribution to ISAF in Kabul.
Bljesak ("Flash") (1995) - Croatian offensive against western Slavonian parts of Krajina
Boleas (1998) - South African military intervention in Lesotho
Bramble Bush (1992) - Israeli plan to kill Saddam Hussein
Caravan (year?) - Canadian contribution to the French-led Interim Emergency Multinational Force in the Democratic Republic of Congo
Central (1998) - Canada's assistance to Central America after the devastation of Hurricane Mitch
Chaperon - Canada's contribution to the United Nations of one military observer (UNMO)
Constable (1997) - Canada's contribution to the United Nations Mission in Haiti
Deliverance (1993) - Canadian mission to Somalia
Desert Shield (1990) - American buildup prior to Gulf War
Granby - British codename for operations during Gulf War
Desert Storm (1991) - Gulf War
Desert Saber - Gulf War ground campaign
Determination (early 1998) - Canadian deployment in the Persian Gulf to force Iraq to comply with United Nations inspection agreements
Enduring Freedom (2001-2002) - US and UK invasion of Afghanistan
Anaconda - US effort to capture al Qaeda members and Talibans in Afghanistan
Apollo - the Canadian Navy's operation in support of the United States forces in Afghanistan
Athena (2003) Canadian Forces contribution to ISAF in Kabul.
Avalanche (December 2003) - US-led offensive of Afghanistan
Haven Denial (July 2003) - US and Italian operation against Taliban remnants and Al Qaeda fighters in southeast Afghanistan
Headstrong (2003) - British special forces secretly training Afghan commandos to seek out and destroy drug labs
Mountain Resolve (launched on November 7, 2003) - US-led operation in Nurestan and Konar provinces, Afghanistan
Mountain Viper (late August, 2003) - US-Afghan attack on suspected Taliban forces in Zabul province, Afghanistan
Slipper - the Royal Australian Navy's contribution to the invasion of Afghanistan
Warrior Sweep (July 23, 2003) - first major military operation of the Afghan National Army
Essential Harvest (2001) - month-long NATO mission of disarming ethnic Albanians in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Falklands War:
Rosario - Argentine invasion
Corporate - British liberation
Black Buck - British long-range bombing raid
Canbelow - British antiaircraft naval ambush
Keyhole - British commando raid
Purple Warrior - British training exercise incorporating lessons from the Falklands War
Sutton - British amphibious landings
Flavius (1988) - SAS action against the IRA in Gibraltar
Forage - Canadian contribution to NATO's Essential Harvest
Granby (1991) - British codename for operations during the Gulf War
Harmony - Canada's contribution to the United Nation Protection Force (UNPROFOR), which was created in February 1992 to ensure the protection and demilitarization of three UN Protected Areas in Croatia
Infinite Justice - original name for Enduring Freedom
Iraqi Freedom (2003) - US invasion of Iraq
Bulldog Mammoth - American search of an apartment complex
Iron Hammer - US forces in Iraq "ferreting out" the opposition (not the same as Eisenhammer)
Ivy Blizzard - counter insurgency sweep by US forces
Ivy Cyclone II - American operation near Tikrit
Operation Red Dawn (2003) - American capture of Saddam Hussein
Rifles Blitz - border security operations in Iraq
Telic - codename for British operations
Valiant Resolve (2004) Operations around Fallujah
Kinetic - Canada's contribution to NATO's mission KFOR to secure Kosovo and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and to provide humanitarian needs to displaced persons
Litani (1978) Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
Megaphone - Canada's return of equipment used in Kosovo
Oluja ("Storm") (1995) - Croatian offensive against Krajina
Northern Watch (1990s) - northern No-Fly Zone over Iraq
Peace for Galilee - Israeli invasion of Lebanon
Peregrine - British Columbia forest fire fighting assitance by soldiers
Persistence (1998) - Canadian operation at Peggy's Cove, Nova Scotia to recover bodies after crash of SwissAir Flight 111
Potkova ("Horseshoe") (1999) - Yugoslav army offensive against the KLA
Provide Comfort (1991) - security and humanitarian aid to Kurds in northern Iraq
Quadrant - Canada's mission in Kosovo
Rainbow - Israeli incursion into the Gaza Strip in 2004.
Record (1991) - Canadian mission to secure Iraqi-Kuwaiti border
Recuperation (1998) - Canadian assistance after major snowstorms in eastern Canada
Sharp Edge (1990-91) - evacuation of Americans from Liberia
Shining Express (2003) - evacuation of Americans from Liberia
Southern Watch (1990s) - southern No-Fly Zone over Iraq
Slipper - the Royal Australian Navy's contribution to the invasion of Afghanistan
Support (September 11-14, 2001) - Canadian Forces operations after terrorist September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks
Telic (2003) - British codename for operations against Iraq
Torrent (1999) - Canadian assistance after earthquake in Turkey
Toucan - Canada's contribution to the United Nations' Internatonal Force in East Timor (INTERFET) and the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET)
Unified Spirite - large NATO exercise held every two years to train the armed forces of member nations in joint and combined operations.
Urgent Fury - American Invasion of Grenada
Veritas (2001) - British codename for operations in Afghanistan
Other/Unknown
Artisan - Canadian Forces contribution to the Rinas Airfield Rehabilitation Project in Tirana, Albania
Echo - Canada sending air forces to Aviano, Italy to enforce a no-fly zone over Balkan region (UNSFOR and UNKFOR)
Eclipse - deployment of Canadian soldiers to east Africa in support of the United Nations Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea (UNMEE)
Fusion - Canada's combined contribution to Allied Harmony and Concordia
Prudence - Canada's participation in the Mission des Nations Unies dans la République Centrafricaine (MINURCA)
Law Enforcement
Avalanche (1999) - American anti-pedophilia effort
Falcon (2004) - anti-pedophilia raid against companies handling credit card payments
Ore (2003) - American led anti-pedophilia effort
Pin (2003) - British-led anti-pedophilia effort
Other
List of amphibious assault operations
List of Nuclear Tests
Project Daedalus - British Interplanetary Society study to create a plausible design for an interstellar probe
Project Jennifer (1974) - CIA lifting of a sunken Soviet submarine
Project RAND
Project Vanguard
Non-military operations
Bojinka - terrorist plot by al-Qaida members Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, foiled in 1995
Clambake - anti-Scientology
I gotta say they dont all make sense. lol but some definately do.
Thus; Operation Iraqi Freedom = Freedom for Iraqi's,
Operation Overlord != Over the Lord
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105371] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:27 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| warranto |
hmm.. now you've confused me. I though you were saying that the name was designed so because the purpose of the war was to free Iraq. So using that logic, "Operation Overlord" was an operation to... Over the Lord? Thats the only reason I could think of for you to make the connection between the two... Here's a hint: the name of the operation does not automatically mean it's the purpose of the Operation.
Your right, in 1933 when Hitler was doing whatever, noone would have done anything. Infact, no one DID anything. Using the past "if you knew" doesn't hold any strength in any sort of arguement. But if you want to... Why didn't Bush go to war as soon as he came to office? I mean, Saddam had already been in power for a while, and everyone knew the stuff he had done. Infact, why didn't Bush Sr do something about it seeing as he was mere miles from his front door?
Infact, if you want to argue semantics about Hitler, the US sat back and WATCHED Hitler murder thousands, only entering the war when Japan attacked, and Germany declared war on the US as a result of the two countries being allies. Millions of people dead, and the United States of America did absolutely nothing about it, even though they knew what was going on...
stealing is stealing, and yes that means the thief broke the law. I'm glad you can see that. It's unfortunate however that you fail to see how it connects to the topic at hand. The UN had stated that the US could not enter Iraq (Bush even recognized this in one of his speaches [Javaxcx has it, perhaps he can enlighten you to it's content]), yes the chose to do so, Violating the UN's desicion... the law was broken right then and there, regardless of the "noble" and "Virtuous" reasons Bush had.
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Overlord was later dropped.
But yes, the Operation names do infer what the Operation is about.
Desert Storm- Invade Kuwait
Desert Shield- Protect Kuwait
Desert Fox- Attack Iraq Stealthily
Iraq Freedom- Free Iraqis.
Overlord- Dominance over everyone
Do you seriously think they would name it that if it had nothing to do with freeing Iraqis?
Actually it does hold an Argument, Bill Oreilly proved this with Michael Moore. MM admitted he would pre-emptively attack Hitler knowing what he would do. We don't know what Saddam will do, why take the chance?
Bush Jr didn't do anything because starting a war you first week in office isn't the best thing to start a presidency on.
Bush Sr didn't do it because the UN said no. Remember that High Way of Death thing? American helicopters decimated what was left of the Iraqi military. The attack took place inside Iraq.
Actually no. The US did not sit back. Without US supplies, planes, vehicles, gasoline. ammunition...the allies would not have lasted. The Battle of Britain would have been lost if America did not produce almost all of Britain's fighters. We originally developed the P-51 mustang for the British.
Besides we entered in 1942. Only two years after Hitler invaded Europe. Were were fighting Japan within weeks of Pearl Harbor. And it took Allied forces 3 more years to develop Operation Over Lord.
We did not just sit by and do nothing.
And allied soldier knew about the concentration camps until we actually found them.
The UN never voted.
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| How Bush will steal the 2004 Election... [message #105373] |
Sat, 31 July 2004 22:34 |
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Nodbugger
Messages: 976
Registered: February 2003
Karma: 0
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Colonel |
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| Javaxcx |
| Nodbugger |
'An often indirect effect, influence, or result that is produced by an event or action.'
The Liberation of the Iraqi people was not an indirect effect. It was not an influence. It was produced by an event or action.
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Yeah, too bad that is exactly what a repercussion is. And you've solidly disproven yourself and acknowlegded my point. The reason to go to war, as stated by your President, was to disarm Iraq. The REPERCUSSION (side-effect, indirect action, consequence, what have you!) of that disarmiment IS THAT IRAQ'S PEOPLE ARE FREE FROM SADDAM'S TYRANNY. You seem to be forgetting, and often misunderstanding, that your president did NOT say "we are going to Iraq to free the people". My God, he doesn't even infer that! Why is this so hard for you to grasp!?
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Our goal was to free the Iraqi people and get rid of Saddam. In order to do that we must invade.
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A goal and a reason are not the same thing.
Goal
n. The final purpose or aim; the end to which a design tends, or which a person aims to reach or attain.
reason
n.
The basis or motive for an action, decision, or conviction.
A declaration made to explain or justify action, decision, or conviction
Your goal in school might be to get a high mark. That is not your reason you're going to school. Your reason might be any number of things: complete school, get a good job, etc.
Stop arguing with words you don't even know how to use.
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For every action their is an equal and opposite reaction.
We invade they got liberated. One of our reasons for invasion was for the goal of liberation to be accomplished.
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THAT IS A REPERCUSSION.
Cause: Invade Iraq on pretense of disarmament.
Effect: No weapons (at all, really)
No Saddam
Iraqi Freedom
That does NOT equate to "liberation = reason". You are perverting the English language.
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I do not care what 'ETYMOLOGY' says. I am saying our goal in Iraq was to Get rid of Saddam and Liberate Iraqis.
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Etymology tells you how to use language. Something you obviously have difficulty with. YOU yourself can have goals of liberating Iraq, but they are not reasons to go to Iraq. Your President said that the weapons were the reason, not the people.
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I also do not care what the charter says. As I have said before. A Security Resolution totally over rides everything else. a Vote is not necessary to enact on a Resolution. We just wanted to tell them our idea and we will do it if they vote or not.
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Sorry friend, the law says otherwise. Stop ignoring the link to the Charter I provided. It will clarify everything for you.
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The UN failed to do their job. So we did it for them.
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You are not authorized by the laws you agreed to invade Iraq. The charter clarifies this, and so does this document I'm reading. It's pretty good.
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In no way was it illegal.
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Yes it was. You're pertaining to your ignorance again, kid.
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Saddam was illegal. Saddam is the one you should be protesting. He is the war criminal.
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I don't need to protest Saddam anymore. It is unequivocally agreed by a large majority (including myself) that Saddam was evil.
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Oh ya, Republican are so much More evil than murderous genocidal dictators.
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Nope, there you go with your generalizations again. Crimson is republican, and I don't think she is evil.
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You are so fucking retarded it isn't even funny.
I will say it for the last fucking time.
UN SECURITY RESOLUTIONS MAKE THE UN CHARTER VOID.
EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS COMPLETE AND UTTER SHIT, NOW REVERT TO MY CAKE ANALOGY.
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