| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100017] |
Tue, 06 July 2004 22:53  |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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Due to a exploit, you can jump on the GDI Insignia on top of the barracks on Canyon, and lay a nuke on top of the barracks. It is difficult to disarm.
Many people see this as a valid tactic, but technically it is a exploit because you are not supposed to be up there.
There has been some discussion inside the team, if we should fix this or not. We're a little undecided. Hence we are asking the community what you think.
We can't promise this will go into CP1, but we would still like your opinion on this.
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It's too bad the thread got way off track before I was able to get my input in. I want to put my vote in for not fixing this so-called exploit. It isn't because I like laying nukes up there (I rarely go on SBH-nuke runs anyway), but because the top of the barracks offers a great position for attacking any vehicles that might be in the entrance and those that drive up the ramp in the middle of the base. The concrete post behind the barracks requires the use of first person mode and offers little protection IMO from vehicles, especially artillery, because of the splash damage. I will not feel guilty about defending my own base.
Furthermore, mines can easily stop Nod from getting up there. If you don't get there in time, that's too bad, because the same thing can be said about the WF or Refinery on any flying map. It's the reason why you mine. These places should also be one of the very first places you suspect whenever you hear 'Nuclear Strike Beacon deployed.'
So you're 'not supposed' to be able to get on top of the barracks, but you've got to look at each 'not supposed to' case differently. This can go hand in hand with the vehicle jumping on Mesa, but you must consider what GDI is losing--eliminate the top of the barracks on Canyon and yes, Nod will have one less place to beacon, but GDI will have one less way to defend their base. Mine the ramps behind the barracks in the first place. If you hear the Nuke beacon deployed warning, the Barracks roof should be the first place you suspect, as it would be the most urgent since you have less time to spare in getting to it.
And about GDI's also so-called exploit of planting an Ion above the concrete bunker near the Airstrip closest to the HON, I was very briefly against it until I learned how easy it was to disarm it from below. Even though Nod will never get all the way around to the beacon in time, they can still simply disarm it from below.
Bottom line, I'd say this so-called exploit should be forgivable: it's easily defended against, it gives a great way to defend the entrance for GDI, it's not so outrageous that you would've never expected it to happen (ie, getting a vehicle on top of buildings or a vehicle on top of the ramps on Walls), it actually could be a useful advantage for both teams, and its notoriety takes away from its advantage as a spot for a nuke beacon.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100310] |
Wed, 07 July 2004 21:46  |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star)
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| Aircraftkiller |
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but because the top of the barracks offers a great position for attacking any vehicles that might be in the entrance and those that drive up the ramp in the middle of the base.
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A position you shouldn't have.
Same with getting on top of the mountains around the canyon, that gives you a great spot to attack and defend from... But why is it inaccessible unless you exploit bugs?
Because it wasn't intended, so logically you shouldn't allow the Barracks exploit either. All in the interests of fairness.
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The mountains, however, are much more buggy than the roof of the barracks. You can fall off the map and die or walk around and have half the map disappear from view. On top of the barracks, the worst thing that could happen to you is slipping off the roof and getting run over by a stealth tank. Plus, getting on top of the mountains would be an offensive exploit. The top of the barracks is a much more defensible position for GDI than a liability.
It may not have been intended, but the top of the barracks on Canyon has turned into something commonplace as opposed to an unfair exploit.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100321] |
Thu, 08 July 2004 00:46 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
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General (1 Star)
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I haven't seen it done enough to really form an opinion about it, and though I don't really like forming theories about Renegade gameplay, I will say this: if the beacon planter is moving you're going to need teamwork to disarm the beacon, naturally; and, if the planter is just sitting on top of the beacon they're just asking for headshots.
I just need to see this done more.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100384] |
Thu, 08 July 2004 09:07 |
Homey
Messages: 1084
Registered: February 2003
Location: Canada
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General (1 Star) |
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| Deathgod |
I'd say if you got a skilled player up there, especially someone with a Havoc or a Mobius, that beacon is probably going to go off most of the time.
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Also depends on the size of the game too, like 50 people I have trouble defending it sometimes, if they get a patch or mobius up there with 2 hotwires its very difficult.
Homey
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100395] |
Thu, 08 July 2004 09:33 |
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SuperFlyingEngi
Messages: 1756
Registered: November 2003
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General (1 Star) |
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Yeah, but with 50 person games, just charge their position with 10 people, and that beacon is going off.
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100559] |
Fri, 09 July 2004 03:06 |
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ghostSWT
Messages: 262
Registered: December 2003
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Recruit |
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I LOVE sbh nuking up there but i think it sould be fixed.
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Canyon is so god damn hard for Nod to win.
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So very untrue. Any map can be easely won by any side with the use of one top secret strategy. "TEAM WORK"
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mining is good and can stop you!
Mine the ramps behind the barracks in the first place.
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Mining? I have to waist mines on back of bar? There is a tunnel, 3 buldings and main entrance that has to be protected from sbh. So i have to mine the front AND back of bar + 4 more doors. @ 5 mines per door.... that won't even kill a sbh (walking slow) plus that leavs the tunnel wide open 4 nod to come threw....
Get rid of the exploit
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100685] |
Fri, 09 July 2004 20:26 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star)
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| ghostSWT |
I LOVE sbh nuking up there but i think it sould be fixed.
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Canyon is so god damn hard for Nod to win.
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So very untrue. Any map can be easely won by any side with the use of one top secret strategy. "TEAM WORK"
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mining is good and can stop you!
Mine the ramps behind the barracks in the first place.
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Mining? I have to waist mines on back of bar? There is a tunnel, 3 buldings and main entrance that has to be protected from sbh. So i have to mine the front AND back of bar + 4 more doors. @ 5 mines per door.... that won't even kill a sbh (walking slow) plus that leavs the tunnel wide open 4 nod to come threw....
Get rid of the exploit
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You should really use mines as a notification rather than your mainline defense against SBHs. If you're going to rely solely on mines and have no one in the base then a technician would slip by very easily; slowly, but easily.
Case in point, you're placing too much emphasis on the importance of mines.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100765] |
Sat, 10 July 2004 09:49 |
flyingfox
Messages: 1612
Registered: February 2003
Location: scotland, uk
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General (1 Star) |
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| ghostSWT |
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Canyon is so god damn hard for Nod to win.
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So very untrue. Any map can be easely won by any side with the use of one top secret strategy. "TEAM WORK"
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Negative, you get punished for teamwork on Hourglass. Take out the enemy obelisk/guard tower? They camp, and eventually gain back the point lead then stay ahead. Trust me, it's happened many times. One time, we did a 6-man medium tank rush and took out the enemy obelisk. The enemy camped the entrance, got back the lead and kept it.
I'd hasten to say if we could organise properly after that we'd be able to go through with the rest of the game, but people think "obelisk down = sniping fun fun fun we've won".
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100839] |
Sat, 10 July 2004 21:11 |
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Deathgod
Messages: 504
Registered: February 2003
Location: The House of B
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Colonel |
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| flyingfox |
Negative, you get punished for teamwork on Hourglass. Take out the enemy obelisk/guard tower? They camp, and eventually gain back the point lead then stay ahead. Trust me, it's happened many times. One time, we did a 6-man medium tank rush and took out the enemy obelisk. The enemy camped the entrance, got back the lead and kept it.
I'd hasten to say if we could organise properly after that we'd be able to go through with the rest of the game, but people think "obelisk down = sniping fun fun fun we've won".
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This would imply that after your rush, the enemy had better teamwork than you, which is why they won.
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| Re: Should we fix jumping on Barracks on Canyon? [message #100859] |
Sun, 11 July 2004 01:14 |
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YSLMuffins
Messages: 1144
Registered: February 2003
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General (1 Star)
Moderator - Mod Forum |
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| flyingfox |
I'd hasten to say if we could organise properly after that we'd be able to go through with the rest of the game, but people think "obelisk down = sniping fun fun fun we've won".
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It's not the map's fault that teamwork crumbles after a successful rush. That can happen on any map. If the AGT or Obelisk goes down on that map, though, the most the team can do is hope that the opposing team crumbles in organization and strategy. Only in that case would camping be successful.
-YSLMuffins
The goddess of all (bread products)
See me online as yslcheeze
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