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Weapons Explained [message #-994062] |
Sun, 13 October 2002 21:15 ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Ok I know allot of you people have been trying to figure out how to create your weapons so they are correctly positioned and oriented depending on if its viewed in 1st or 3rd person or if its on the character's back.
Well I'll try to make it easy to understand.
First you need 3 individual models for the weapon. it's always a good idea to use same name convention WW uses for their models, I'll use the auto-rifle weapon for the example.
- Weapon models for 3rd person view are named like this: w_rifl.w3d (where rifl is your weapon name)
- Weapon models for when the gun is on the character's back are named like this: w_rifl_b.w3d
- Weapon models for 1st person view are named like this: f_gm_rifl.w3d (gm proly stands for Gun Mesh or Gun Model, or whatever you prefer )
3rd person weapon models: ------------------------------------
All characters have a "gun bone" that tells renegade which hand does hold the gun. the weapon's pivot point is positioned at this "gun bone" position. In other words, once you have created your weapon mesh, move its pivot where you want the hand to be.
you fix the style that the character should hold the gun in Level Editor i.e.: Shoulder: uses both hands (second hand position is set automatically by Renegade) Pistol: uses one hand etc...
Now the weapon and its pivot needs to be correctly oriented in RenX:
Weapon Orientation: Viewing from top, the weapon should be pointing to the right, and the top side of the weapon is facing you.
Pivots Axes: X is pointing to the front of the gun (right in top view) Y is pointing to the top side of the gun (pointing at you in top view) Z is pointing to the right side of the gun (down in top view)
Weapons Bones: MuzzleA0, A1: position at which bullets are fired, muzzle bones pivots axes are oriented the same way the weapon's pivot is.
eject: position at which shells exits, its pivot's Z axis is pointing to the back of the gun and its pivot's X or Y determines which way the shell exits (I think X does)
Origin: use world axes coordinate, positioned a little back of the weapon's pivot (approximately at elbow's position)
If you use a muzzle flash aggregate, link it to the muzzle just like for vehicles.
1st person weapon models: -----------------------------------
For 1st person view, you can use the same model, or create a simplified version of it with details only in the viewable parts of the gun. Also, for 1st person view, you have to create a magazine mesh for the reload anim.
Like for 3rd person view, the weapon's pivot position determines where the hand should hold the gun.
Weapon Orientation: Orientation of the weapon for first person view is different then the 3rd person. Viewing from top, the weapon should be pointing down, its right side facing you.
Weapon Pivot axes: X is pointing to the top side of the gun (right in top view) Y is pointing to the back side of the gun (up in top view) Z is pointing to the right side of the gun (pointing at you in top view)
Magazine Pivot axes and position: X is pointing to the right side of the gun (pointing at you in top view) Y is pointing to the back side of the gun (up in top view) Z is pointing to the top side of the gun (right in top view)
The pivot of the magazine is positioned at the top of the magazine mesh (pivot's Z max), back most of the magazine (pivot's Y max) and left most of the weapon side (pivot's X axis).
The magazine mesh itself is positioned wherever you want it to be on the gun. Name the magazine: f_cm_rifl (where rifl matches your weapon's name)
Bones:
MuzzleA0, A1: for 1st person view, muzzle bone uses a different pivot orientation, X points direction of bullets (down in top view) Y is pointing to the right side of the gun (pointing at you in top view) Z is pointing to the top side of the gun (right in top view)
eject: eject bone's pivot orientation is also different from 3rd person view, X should be pointing direction of shells to exit (right, up 45 degree) Y is pointing to the back side of the weapon (up in top view) Z is pointing right, down (45 degree)
Origin: Origin might be determining how far the gun is from the camera, in the auto-rifle w3d, it is centred to the weapon's pivot position, aligned with world coordinates.
Back weapon models: ----------------------------
This is the model used when on the back of the character, there is no bones for this model. Only the mesh itself and its origin.
Weapon orientation: Same orientation of the 3rd person model.
Viewing from top, the weapon should be pointing to the right, and the top side of the weapon is facing you.
Weapon's pivot orientation: Since it is on the character's back and that the weapon is not straight on the back, the pivot axes determines the angle of the weapon on the character's back.
Since this would be hard to explain, here's the XYZ rotation in absolute world coordinates for the auto-rifle. To set your weapon's pivot rotation simply click on the "affect pivot only" in the hierarchy tab, then right click on the rotate tool and type this in absolute world X,Y,Z: X: -0.9516 Y: -7.6463 Z: 7.3055
Weapon's pivot is centred with the weapon
Origin is positioned at the same point where the hand should hold the gun in 3rd person view. (weapon's pivot point of 3rd view model) Origin using world axes coordinate as always.
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Ok that's it for the RenX part, now all the rest is set in Level Edit, try messing around with settings until you get the results you wish.
Hope that helped, Abjab [ October 15, 2002, 20:09: Message edited by: Abjab ]
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Weapons Explained [message #-994060] |
Sun, 13 October 2002 23:58 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Good job with the info abjab, now how about some example w3d files to show how it all fits together? I mean a complete set with all animations and etc.
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Weapons Explained [message #-994053] |
Mon, 14 October 2002 07:07 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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gee.... most of us know about that you now... i thought you figered out how to make reloading animation and hand position.
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Weapons Explained [message #-994052] |
Mon, 14 October 2002 10:00 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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quote: Originally posted by Havoc 89: gee.... most of us know about that you now... i thought you figered out how to make reloading animation and hand position.
Perhaps you need to read again, I've explained the hand position.
And for the reloading animation, it has nothing to do with the weapon, only thing you need is the magazine correctly named and exported, as I've also explained in there, as for the animation itself, it's the character that is animated. Settings are made in Level Editor.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nodbugger: you made it way harder than it is.[/QUOTE
ROFL, you're welcome
Abjab [ October 14, 2002, 17:08: Message edited by: Abjab ]
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Weapons Explained [message #-994049] |
Tue, 15 October 2002 12:22 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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quote: Originally posted by Abjab: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Havoc 89: gee.... most of us know about that you now... i thought you figered out how to make reloading animation and hand position.
Perhaps you need to read again, I've explained the hand position.
And for the reloading animation, it has nothing to do with the weapon, only thing you need is the magazine correctly named and exported, as I've also explained in there, as for the animation itself, it's the character that is animated. Settings are made in Level Editor.
quote: Originally posted by Nodbugger: you made it way harder than it is.[/QUOTE
ROFL, you're welcome
Abjab
really??? well i should read again... maybe i missed some stuff. i guess i was in a hurry.
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Weapons Explained [message #-994048] |
Tue, 15 October 2002 12:58 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Well, if you're still in a hurry, here to save you some time
...
quote: Originally posted by Abjab: ... All characters have a "gun bone" that tells renegade which hand does hold the gun. the weapon's pivot point is positioned at this "gun bone" position. In other words, once you have created your weapon mesh, move its pivot where you want the hand to be.
you fix the style that the character should hold the gun in Level Editor i.e.: Shoulder: uses both hands (second hand position is set automatically by Renegade) Pistol: uses one hand etc... ...
... For 1st person view, you can use the same model, or create a simplified version of it with details only in the viewable parts of the gun. Also, for 1st person view, you have to create a magazine mesh for the reload anim. ...
... Magazine Pivot axes and position: X is pointing to the right side of the gun (pointing at you in top view) Y is pointing to the back side of the gun (up in top view) Z is pointing to the top side of the gun (right in top view)
The pivot of the magazine is positioned at the top of the magazine mesh (pivot's Z max), back most of the magazine (pivot's Y max) and left most of the weapon side (pivot's X axis).
The magazine mesh itself is positioned wherever you want it to be on the gun. Export the magazine mesh with both geometry type (bone transform and geometry). Name the magazine: f_cm_rifl (where rifl matches your weapon's name) ...
Oops made a mistake: You don't need to check "bone transform" for the clip mesh, I'll edit the message above to correct it. Also the f_cm_rifl is not exported alone, it's the clip mesh name inside f_gm_rifl.w3d model file.
Abjab
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Weapons Explained [message #-994047] |
Tue, 15 October 2002 15:13 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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avyone have been able to make it work???
because thats really wierd. when i search to make a full animated weapon i found that u need at least 13 files!
xxxx is your weapon name (dunno if its support more than 4 digits)
************************************************** Hierarchical model files type: **************************************************
1) f_gm_xxxx.w3d - Gun Model, must have a separate clip model having the name : f_cm_xxxx
2) f_cm_xxxx.w3d - separate clip model for reload animation
************************************************* Pure animation file type: *************************************************
This time we use f_ga_xxxx_(action) where GA stand for Gun Animation
1) f_ga_xxxx_enter.w3d - not sure of this one but i think its the one used when u scroll weapons and a weapon appear.
2) f_ga_xxxx_exit.w3d - the opposite of enter animation
3) f_ga_xxxx_fire.w3d - custom firing animation for weapons best examples: Laser chaingun, minigunner...
4) f_ga_xxxx_idle.w3d - dunno....
5) f_ga_xxxx_relod.w3d - not a mistake, its really relod and not reload. Reload animation for gun.
************************************************** Bone only file type(or more pure animated thing... im not sure): **************************************************
now, the finals files used for hand animation(ha)(f_ha_xxxx_enter).
1) f_ha_xxxx_enter.w3d
2) f_ha_xxxx_exit.w3d
3) f_ha_xxxx_fire.w3d
4) f_ha_xxxx_idle.w3d
5) f_ha_xxxx_relod.w3d
-------------------------------------------------- Now ill explain a little about the files "use existing bone" of renx when u export.
the f_ga_xxxx_(action) file need the f_gm_xxxx.
the f_ha_xxxx_(action) file need the f_skeleton.w3d (file in always.dat).
I think the f_ga_xxxx_(action) are the same file as f_ha_xxxx_(action) except they have fingers bone included.
i tried to look into f_skeleton.w3d(yes with note pad ) and i saw some word about finger1, finger2... bone. --------------------------------------------------
all i said in this tread may or not be accurate, but looking all weapon of renegade, i think we will get it
edit: i added some star to make it easier to read edit2: i made a typo about Ga(gun animation), i putted Am instead... dunno why lol, now is fixed, no more typo in this reply ![[Wink]](wink.gif) [ October 16, 2002, 12:17: Message edited by: Francois ]
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Weapons Explained [message #-994046] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 05:29 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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all that stuff seems really complicated. Im glad U people are smart, 'cause I am way to stupid for all that. LOL
Really cool Tutorial.
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Weapons Explained [message #-994045] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 17:55 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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Great work Francois, Have'nt checked those files yet.
I'll try to have a quick look at them if I have time. I suspect that those f_ga_xxxx files are pure animation using the f_gm_xxxx for skeleton and f_ha_xxxx are probably using s_a_human skeleton.
Anyway by this weekend some of you will be looking at those w3d, wich will get some real good tutorial possible
see ya Abjab
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Weapons Explained [message #-994044] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 06:19 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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quote: Originally posted by Francois: avyone have been able to make it work???
because thats really wierd. when i search to make a full animated weapon i found that u need at least 13 files!
xxxx is your weapon name (dunno if its support more than 4 digits)
************************************************** Hierarchical model files type: **************************************************
1) f_gm_xxxx.w3d - Gun Model, must have a separate clip model having the name : f_cm_xxxx
2) f_cm_xxxx.w3d - separate clip model for reload animation
************************************************* Pure animation file type: *************************************************
This time we use f_ga_xxxx_(action) where GA stand for Gun Animation
1) f_ga_xxxx_enter.w3d - not sure of this one but i think its the one used when u scroll weapons and a weapon appear.
2) f_ga_xxxx_exit.w3d - the opposite of enter animation
3) f_ga_xxxx_fire.w3d - custom firing animation for weapons best examples: Laser chaingun, minigunner...
4) f_ga_xxxx_idle.w3d - dunno....
5) f_ga_xxxx_relod.w3d - not a mistake, its really relod and not reload. Reload animation for gun.
************************************************** Bone only file type(or more pure animated thing... im not sure): **************************************************
now, the finals files used for hand animation(ha)(f_ha_xxxx_enter).
1) f_ha_xxxx_enter.w3d
2) f_ha_xxxx_exit.w3d
3) f_ha_xxxx_fire.w3d
4) f_ha_xxxx_idle.w3d
5) f_ha_xxxx_relod.w3d
-------------------------------------------------- Now ill explain a little about the files "use existing bone" of renx when u export.
the f_ga_xxxx_(action) file need the f_gm_xxxx.
the f_ha_xxxx_(action) file need the f_skeleton.w3d (file in always.dat).
I think the f_ga_xxxx_(action) are the same file as f_ha_xxxx_(action) except they have fingers bone included.
i tried to look into f_skeleton.w3d(yes with note pad ) and i saw some word about finger1, finger2... bone. --------------------------------------------------
all i said in this tread may or not be accurate, but looking all weapon of renegade, i think we will get it
edit: i added some star to make it easier to read edit2: i made a typo about Ga(gun animation), i putted Am instead... dunno why lol, now is fixed, no more typo in this reply
one question that bothers me... in level edit, there are only 3 places to put a w3d file... they are 1st person view, 3rd person view and back model. so then how can that work with 13 files. i know there are supposed to be 13 files i checked with XCC mixer. so then how do you think you get all those file in level edit??? [ October 16, 2002, 13:20: Message edited by: Havoc 89 ]
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Weapons Explained [message #-994043] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 08:10 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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well all those 13 file are only for the fisrt person view. with the "xxxx" name i think u only setup the main model, and renegade automaticly load other stuff like reload animation... sound long to do?? nah, just think about it, when the model is done, only remain anim and boning stuff....
posted by Adjab:
I'll try to have a quick look at them if I have time. I suspect that those f_ga_xxxx files are pure animation using the f_gm_xxxx for skeleton and f_ha_xxxx are probably using s_a_human skeleton.
Well for the ga stuff yep, just look into the file with notepad u see the currenty file name, and the other file name just near it...
and for the ha, like i said just looking into the file trough notepad u see f_skeleton... dunno if it use the s_a_human... anyway maybe this week or later we will be able to do a complete animated weapon
i hope all i said will work (i sure it will work )
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Weapons Explained [message #-994042] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 08:35 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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quote: Originally posted by Francois: Well for the ga stuff yep, just look into the file with notepad u see the currenty file name, and the other file name just near it...
and for the ha, like i said just looking into the file trough notepad u see f_skeleton... dunno if it use the s_a_human... anyway maybe this week or later we will be able to do a complete animated weapon
Try WDump instead of notepad... You'll have a better idea of what the names are there for
Abjab
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Weapons Explained [message #-994041] |
Wed, 16 October 2002 12:12 ![Go to previous message Go to previous message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/up.png) ![Go to next message Go to next message](/theme/Renegade_Forums/images/down.png) |
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quote: anyway maybe this week or later we will be able to do a complete animated weapon
i hope your rite about that. if we solve weapons then... well, we just figerd out the biggest mystery of renegade, and also the hardest [ October 17, 2002, 12:32: Message edited by: Havoc 89 ]
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