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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
For real? - link removed by admin -
I did a quick check for virusses before people actually start downloading and running it. It is really nothing you can use or even run but atleast it's clean /Topic should be moved to SPAM.
WOW. You once again fail to release something you shouldn't. What is this, the 4th time?
72.5mb? Pretty sure the AR Alpha 9 installer was somewhat larger than that when I first compiled it. Also, FYI, that version is about 18 months old now and barely resembles the current internal builds.
Haha, nice try.
upload a version that isn't corrupted you jackass
ahahahahaha best topic. too bad it's not actually released
Lol Let's try again. - link removed by admin and user banned for 30 days for this post -
unexpected end of archive error again faggot
lol it was still being uploaded. try again now
it's not too bad, do you still have the link for AR?
I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles.
I'm not sure why it takes anyone so long to paint structures and get them ready. If they need help, I can share some techniques that I've picked up over the years. They've been working on this since 2006, I imagine these buildings should've been done years ago. For reference, most of my TD buildings are already done and they have a full interior to go with them, textures included. The only thing remaining is rigging. There are ways to speed up the entire process so it doesn't take a glacial pace to get these things finished. They're doing good work, but there won't be anyone here to enjoy what they're doing if they don't finish soon. Six years is far too long for any project to be completed. The majority of mods at "BHP" are turning into Duke Nukem Forever: Renegade Edition.
Out internal test builds have had fully textured buildings and all RA2 vehicles for years now, the only reason the build he had does not is because it's absolutely ancient. If you're curious the main sticking point these days is infantry models and we are finally making progress on those... just seems as if nobody has enough experience creating and rigging them to get things moving at any appreciable speed. A small selection of the images from our latest blog (https://www.bluehellproductions.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25220); NB: Full size images are available via the blog linked above.
They might be textured, but most of it looks like filler texture The reborn beta up here was released back in 2010 AFAIK. Most of the major bugs and nasties were fixed by early 2011 (shortly before i left) All that was left was some balancing and you would've had the Reborn Vehicle Beta by summer 2011. But it was not to be.
Considering we are (loosely) following the 'cartoon'ish look of RA2 I would say the building textures fit the theme quite nicely actually.
not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint
Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 18:09 They might be textured, but most of it looks like filler texture The reborn beta up here was released back in 2010 AFAIK. Most of the major bugs and nasties were fixed by early 2011 (shortly before i left) All that was left was some balancing and you would've had the Reborn Vehicle Beta by summer 2011. But it was not to be. Reborn beta was released in 2003.
I still have quite the archive from when I hosted the AR FTP server, and everyone gave me their files. - http://bluehellproductions.com/downloads/internal/ar/assortedbestialityporn.zip Also, the reason AR hasn't been completed in the 6 years it's been going for, at least from my memory, is because everything was redone around 4 times. Sometimes even being textured before it gets redone, and needs retexturing. :V
For those of you who missed the reborn build: It's nothing to fret about. That thing crashes like crazy. Crash on load, crash on exit, crash on shutdown, crash when you are getting out of an amphibious vehicle, crash when you are getting IN one. I had to take a lot of files from the internal build I had in order to make it work, and it is still crashy.
Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't see what leaking the game early actually achieves other than satisfying people's curiosity and making them think that the game is a pile of wank; since it's not ready for the public, the art is missing, the balance is broken and it's not enjoyable to play. I don't think our team has ever done anything personally to you to warrant the leaking of our game Taz. Why are you being such a terrible person? The textures on the buildings (apart from the Allied Powerplant and both Barracks structures) are temporary however. Our testers complained that they kept getting lost in our buildings due to the lighting issues with un-textured objects. So we put some basic textures on the models to appease them. As for final textures, it's pretty impossible these days to find talented texture artists in this community who aren't already on the team or aren't called Aircraftkiller. We did have a pretty good texture artist working on getting our buildings looking great, but then he decided that he'd had enough of AR and went to work on texturing APB models. A few of our staffers are also working on Reborn at the moment, so things stagnated. However, we recently recruited a new texture artist and things are starting to pick up again despite us only having around 4 semi-active staff members. Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:05 I'm not sure why it takes anyone so long to paint structures and get them ready. If they need help, I can share some techniques that I've picked up over the years. They've been working on this since 2006, I imagine these buildings should've been done years ago. For reference, most of my TD buildings are already done and they have a full interior to go with them, textures included. The only thing remaining is rigging. There are ways to speed up the entire process so it doesn't take a glacial pace to get these things finished. They're doing good work, but there won't be anyone here to enjoy what they're doing if they don't finish soon. Six years is far too long for any project to be completed. The majority of mods at "BHP" are turning into Duke Nukem Forever: Renegade Edition. I agree with you Aircraftkiller, it has taken us way longer than it should to get this game ready, however there is a number of factors that have prevented us. Mainly, things like a lack of texture artists, a lack of unwrapping staff, a lack of character artists, a lack of skill (for a few years at least) and a lack of time. It's fair to say that nobody wants to make new character models for the w3d engine any more (except perhaps me and some of the Reborn team), so that part of the project has gone unfinished for a long time. As for you're offer of help and advice; I might just take you up on that. Another reason why the game is taking so long is because of other obligations our staff have, such as work or education. The aforementioned assignment of our staff to other projects also has somewhat of an effect. The reason we haven't been doing updates/blogs and such recently is because it'll be better to start doing them again when we're near the end to generate hype. At the moment it's like "I want to play this game, but I don't know when it's going to come out, so screw it" for a lot of people so it doesn't really seem worth promoting the game when we're still up to our eyes in assets to complete at this time. I think that there will still be people around to play this when we release, perhaps not in this community, but certainly out in the wider gaming community. What I have noticed is that w3d games/mods that are announced just within the C&C community tend to have a lifespan of around 2 weeks after release (I'm looking at you Reborn Infantry Beta). However, I think that if the game is advertised a bit more through social media websites such as Reddit, Facebook and general gaming news sites, I think that the player-base could potentially boom. It all hinges on making the game good before release and also maketing it well, which will unfortunately take some time. Zion wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 13:23 Also, the reason AR hasn't been completed in the 6 years it's been going for, at least from my memory, is because everything was redone around 4 times. Sometimes even being textured before it gets redone, and needs retexturing. :V Hey Zion, long time no see! You're absolutely right in some cases here, but there was a reason to redo things. When AR was started, I was a 3d nooblet and had no concept of polygon counts, topology, optimisation, proportions and other aspects. So when models were made and passed along to be unwrapped, I had no idea (until a year or two later) that there were some things that were very wrong with some of them. The Grizzly tank, for example, had to be redone because the model was made incredibly poorly (by my part). So when it was textured and I came back to look at the model, I made everyone really quite mad when I said that it had to be redone. The model we have now though, is awesome and I'm glad we re-did it. So you can pretty much blame me for redoing things because now that I know how to model instead of thinking I know how, things are running a lot more smoothly in our team. We run a check on every model before it goes to being unwrapped to ensure that there's no nGons or poor modelling to be found. My only regret is that I wish I learnt how to model properly sooner instead of saying in the early days, "wow that looks awesome, let's get it ingame hurr durr." tl;dr - Constructive criticism please! - Most of the building textures are place-holders. - Aircraftkiller is right, but people will hopefully play the game if it's well made and marketed well. - We're taking so long because I'm a spoon and made people redo things in the past.
I will discuss it with you later when I'm not at work. Hopefully you'll be around when I get back.
One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. text The only constructive critisism necessary here is: Get it done RELEASE!!11!1!!!
what i said was pretty constructive pretty sure if i would have to say that to aircraftkiller he'd understand he'd have to make the texture more detailed so it doesn't look like something done in 1 minute in MS paint
There are three ways to get the cartoony look you guys want. You can use little detail. This, however, also has the effect of making a project looked rush. You can use a shader. There was a cartoon shader released a while back. However, it cuts into FPS, and it does not work with 4.0. Go Figure. Lastly, you can over-detail. This is the best one. Still using the small textures you guys have, because that improves performance, add every detail you can think of in your heads. This Renegade X turret has a lot of greebles, so it makes it look cartoony:
iRANian wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 19:21 what i said was pretty constructive pretty sure if i would have to say that to aircraftkiller he'd understand he'd have to make the texture more detailed so it doesn't look like something done in 1 minute in MS paint It may have been constructive from your point of view. But it was so vague that it pretty much gives me nothing to go on. I'm left asking myself which textures in the screenshot look like they have been done in paint? Please clarify what you meant, since I don't think you can honestly say that all of the textures in every image look like a one minute paint-a-thon. Whenever I look at Aircraftkiller's work, he's usually showing off a single asset rather than an ingame screenshot (unless he's working on a map), so yeah he'd know what you're on about because there's usually only one item in the image. Generalcamo wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 20:04 There are three ways to get the cartoony look you guys want. You can use little detail. This, however, also has the effect of making a project looked rush. You can use a shader. There was a cartoon shader released a while back. However, it cuts into FPS, and it does not work with 4.0. Go Figure. Lastly, you can over-detail. This is the best one. Still using the small textures you guys have, because that improves performance, add every detail you can think of in your heads. This Renegade X turret has a lot of greebles, so it makes it look cartoony: http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/9/8709/turret_1.jpg I don't think I'm in need of an art lesson here; but there's one major problem with your suggestion of trying to texture our assets the same way Renegade X do. Renegade X's models use shaders to give the final model extra detail which we don't have access to. Shaders that make use of techniques such as normal mapping and specular mapping. So no matter how hard we try, we'll never be able to make content look as good as theirs; even if we magically get these shaders, UDK's lighting engine is superior. It's an engine limitation which we're bearing with because we've come too far on this engine to stop now. As for the cartoon shader; I was one of the guys that was pushing Saberhawk for it, so it's ultimate failure was disappointing. Structures such as the Sentry Gun, Flak Cannon and Tesla Coil are all, in my opinion, pretty good Here's a couple of screenshots of the Allied Barracks. This is the kind of texture work I'd like to see on all of our structures: Exterior Interior The problem is not that we don't know what we want to do, it's about not having the staff to do it.
None of the stuff Aircraftkiller ever made gave me the feeling it was made in 1 minute with MS Paint. Even when I'm playing Fjords in-game, on the other hand most of the objects in those screenshots do (most strikingly the Harrier landing pads. With "1 minute in MS Paint" I refer to the textures toned in plastic colours with minimal colour shading applied to it.
iRANian wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 21:30 None of the stuff Aircraftkiller ever made gave me the feeling it was made in 1 minute with MS Paint. Even when I'm playing Fjords in-game, on the other hand most of the objects in those screenshots do (most strikingly the Harrier landing pads. With "1 minute in MS Paint" I refer to the textures toned in plastic colours with minimal colour shading applied to it. That's more like it. Cheers. But yeah, most of the building textures are place-holders to stop testers from whining at untextured things. As I said previously, the only really finished ones are the Allied barracks, Allied Power Plant and parts of the Soviet Barracks.
It's looking good guys, good to see it didn't fall through the cracks. I was checking up on it on the bhp forums for quite a while and it wasn't getting updated there for a while.
Jerad Gray wrote on Tue, 03 July 2012 18:47 It's looking good guys, good to see it didn't fall through the cracks. I was checking up on it on the bhp forums for quite a while and it wasn't getting updated there for a while. Thanks Jerad, we're going to keep working on it, so there's no chance that it won't come out. RP2 is looking pretty amazing these days btw. Awesome job!
We are trying to make a stable release of ECW. We are working hard on that part. Hopefully it will be worth it, we already smashed a lot of the bugs, a lot of the ones in the current alpha are actually fixed server-side. Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002...
Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 02:59 Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002... It must be nice to have that much free time to work on game mods, what do you do for a day job that leaves you so fresh every day you can sit down and work on game mods?
danpaul88 wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 01:13 Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 02:59 Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002... It must be nice to have that much free time to work on game mods, what do you do for a day job that leaves you so fresh every day you can sit down and work on game mods? School probably.
Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 02:59 We are trying to make a stable release of ECW. We are working hard on that part. Hopefully it will be worth it, we already smashed a lot of the bugs, a lot of the ones in the current alpha are actually fixed server-side. Amazing the efforts that two to four people outperform a few mods, with entire teams, that have been working since 2002... That's interesting to hear. It took me a couple of searches on google to find the project (since clicking Jerad's sig would be way too easy), but it's looking pretty good. A word of advice before I dissect your comment by the way. Being all "hurr durr my team is more productive than SOME teams around here ", makes you sound pretty arrogant and does nothing to make me want to go "yeah, that GeneralCamo guy is alright". Plus it reflects badly on the project you support if you are pictured in a negative way. I guess what I'm saying is that you could have written what you wanted to say without sounding like an arrogant douche. I doubt you guys are outperforming APB at this stage, seeing as their project is released and is usually being played. Updates are regular too. Reborn is practically done apart from a couple of models and a lot of Level Edit work so I doubt they're being outperformed either. A lot of good quality custom models are in that game, as well as the walkers and deployables that make it awesome. ECW could be outperforming us over at AR, mainly because we haven't really updated much lately, we haven't been working on our project for as long as APB or Reborn and we've only got 4-5 busy people actively working. I used to have loads of spare time for AR, but as soon as I got to university I was swamped with work, so no productivity there (well apart from stuff like this). Saying that; our game is barely Renegade any more. We are still using some renegade models for place-holders but the game plays a lot differently due to several unique mechanics we've engineered. ECW is definitely outperforming Battle For Dune and Scud Storm, since I haven't heard anything from those guys for ages. So I guess your comment was aimed at the games that I just mentioned? By the way, I don't see you on their staff page at all. Are you actually on their team or what?
Actually, I was. I wasn't talking about APB, because they have made a lot of (somewhat) stable releases in 3 years time. Really, Reborn is the only mod in BHP that fits this criteria, with only two releases, one alpha, and an infantry beta, after 10 years. But when I was testing, it was pretty much done for a Vehicle Beta as Taz has said. When BHP took it over though, they decided to make a full release instead of a vehicle beta, which is fine. As long as progress is made. And it looks like there is. By the way, that is a nice Battle Fortress, but I would add some reflectivity to it, to make it more like the Shiny Chrome in the Cameo. And then of course, this thing probably went crushing tanks and such, so adding some dents, scuffs, and blood at the bottom of the front would make it look better.
Generalcamo wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 15:32 By the way, that is a nice Battle Fortress, but I would add some reflectivity to it, to make it more like the Shiny Chrome in the Cameo. And then of course, this thing probably went crushing tanks and such, so adding some dents, scuffs, and blood at the bottom of the front would make it look better. Cheers. It does have some reflectivity through a specular map, but I've toned it down because it can be shiny overkill. I did this for a uni project so that's why it's got a specular map, however we won't be able to use that particular type of texture map unless TT implement the shader support. I didn't bother adding too much grime because it's supposed to be clean out of the War Factory, so I just added dirt where it would collect naturally in the test ranges. The texture does need improving however, since the shading is fairly flat.
As for the comment about me being staff: I am an internal tester for them, so I have access to the internal alpha. I have a few videos I need to work on so that people know what the devs have been working on.
Generalcamo wrote on Tue, 03 July 2012 21:59 ECW Holy unoptimized geometry with incredibly oversized textures, Batman!
Talk to Blazea. He is sometimes on these forums. Most of the objects in the map LOD out, so it isn't that bad. VIS is impossible due to the fact that it is a flat map, not really in the Desert, but in the City, yes. Oh and the fact that it is a huge map.
That is RP2, the mod in which you are an internal tester.
They changed the name. "Roleplay 2" was turning people away. Due to the fact that we became standalone, the Renegade community was only a small percentage of our player base. And the last release known as the old name was extremely crashy due to the code. We hope to have one of the most stable releases soon. And the old name, which can mean more then one thing, was keeping us back. Don't worry about the next release though. We have ironed out most of the bugs, and have a stable release on our hands. We just need some additional things from the modeling department (Blazea), some fixing to some models (Including adding LOD to the water, and gridding it out some more), and some Code Work (Jerad Grey). I should be a PR director.
The acronym just makes me think of Extreme Championship Wrestling.
One Winged Angel wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 06:36 ECW is definitely outperforming Battle For Dune and Scud Storm, since I haven't heard anything from those guys for ages. So I guess your comment was aimed at the games that I just mentioned? By the way, I don't see you on their staff page at all. Are you actually on their team or what? i must say that BFD is moving forward again this year some custom scripts are done Venom made some really nice models (see latest blog). and you can't call Scud Storm a mod with a team tbh it's mostly a one man job (and there is some really nice stuff for the next release). and the lack of testers doesn't help either (which you can agree on general camo).
triattack wrote on Tue, 10 July 2012 19:55 One Winged Angel wrote on Wed, 04 July 2012 06:36 ECW is definitely outperforming Battle For Dune and Scud Storm, since I haven't heard anything from those guys for ages. So I guess your comment was aimed at the games that I just mentioned? By the way, I don't see you on their staff page at all. Are you actually on their team or what? i must say that BFD is moving forward again this year some custom scripts are done Venom made some really nice models (see latest blog). and you can't call Scud Storm a mod with a team tbh it's mostly a one man job (and there is some really nice stuff for the next release). and the lack of testers doesn't help either (which you can agree on general camo). I must say that I made that post before BFD's update was generally aware to anyone outside of their forums. The latest update has re-newed my faith in the project as it's all looking pretty epic now. Awesome stuff!
One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days.
Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 02:35 One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. ITT: shitty failed troll.
Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 05:35 I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. AR has a lot of work left to do. I don't see what they've done to warrant you going after them, though. I could see people justifiably going after APB/Rebarn but AR hasn't built its reputation around pissing off random people and being general shitheads to their fans. They're just taking a long time to get their mod finished. You're not going to drum up a lot of support for your cause by attacking innocents.
TheBeerinator wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:57 Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 02:35 One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. ITT: shitty failed troll. I'd call 600 downloads pretty damn succesful tho! Even got up a dedicated multiplayer server over at http://vidb.com
Taz wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 20:16 TheBeerinator wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:57 Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 02:35 One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. ITT: shitty failed troll. I'd call 600 downloads pretty damn succesful tho! Even got up a dedicated multiplayer server over at www.leekspin.com Hello Blackwolf. I like the fact that you feel you have the justification to call our game half-assed when you yourself left Reborn with most of your work unfinished, before joining the APB team and not finishing any of your work there either. It just proves the fact that you are a massive hypocrite. Most of us have lives outside of the community, so we simply cannot dedicate all of our time to make the game come out any faster. Also, well done on your 600 downloads on a game that isn't fun to play. You've got yourself some fine models and animations to look at there, but not much else. It makes me wonder what your motivation is to be honest. Are you simply that terrible of a person or did one of us say something to hurt your feelings enough that you'd be childish enough to get revenge like this? Whatever it is, people like you confuse me.
Taz wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 12:16 TheBeerinator wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:57 ITT: shitty failed troll. I'd call 600 downloads pretty damn succesful tho! Even got up a dedicated multiplayer server over at http://vidb.com Haha. Even Kushans leak of APB got more downloads than that, and it was up for what, 2 days or something? It's no wonder why you were fired from working on the mods, you are terrible at everything you do. ITT: shitty troll, terrible leaker, and attention whore I am worried I might need to start a bulleted list if you keep posting.
One Winged Angel wrote on Wed, 15 August 2012 08:50 Taz wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 20:16 TheBeerinator wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:57 Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 02:35 One Winged Angel wrote on Mon, 02 July 2012 09:48 Taz wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 16:01 I do, but it's not worth playing anyway. only 3 half-assed maps, nearly all buildings untextured, renegade infantry and a few vehicles. iRANian wrote on Sun, 01 July 2012 17:46 not really they look like someone spent 1 minute in ms paint I think it's funny how you guys can instantly start with the negative comments concerning a game being developed in this community for free. Some constructive criticism would have been nice, since saying that "it's not worth playing anyway" and saying that the maps are "half-assed" is about as useful to us (the developers) as a sponge made of bricks. I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. ITT: shitty failed troll. I'd call 600 downloads pretty damn succesful tho! Even got up a dedicated multiplayer server over at www.leekspin.com Hello Blackwolf. I like the fact that you feel you have the justification to call our game half-assed when you yourself left Reborn with most of your work unfinished, before joining the APB team and not finishing any of your work there either. It just proves the fact that you are a massive hypocrite. Most of us have lives outside of the community, so we simply cannot dedicate all of our time to make the game come out any faster. Also, well done on your 600 downloads on a game that isn't fun to play. You've got yourself some fine models and animations to look at there, but not much else. It makes me wonder what your motivation is to be honest. Are you simply that terrible of a person or did one of us say something to hurt your feelings enough that you'd be childish enough to get revenge like this? Whatever it is, people like you confuse me. Yes, your game is half-assed.
TheBeerinator wrote on Thu, 16 August 2012 10:40 Taz wrote on Mon, 13 August 2012 12:16 TheBeerinator wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 12:57 ITT: shitty failed troll. I'd call 600 downloads pretty damn succesful tho! Even got up a dedicated multiplayer server over at http://vidb.com Haha. Even Kushans leak of APB got more downloads than that, and it was up for what, 2 days or something? It's no wonder why you were fired from working on the mods, you are terrible at everything you do. ITT: shitty troll, terrible leaker, and attention whore I am worried I might need to start a bulleted list if you keep posting. Guess i'll just have to improve my leaking work aye? Don't worry. AR is coming. Soon. LOL.
I am also curious as to why you are putting in this much effort to rustle the jimmies of a "half assed" games development team. Seems like a lot of work to get so little attention.
I'm still not sure why you people insist on calling AR, APB, and Rebarn a game. They're total conversion mods using Renegade's engine. They aren't games in and of themselves without Renegade. They still use Renegade code, Renegade sounds, Renegade assets, etc. They're all Renegade mods. If they switch to another engine (Unity, Unreal, Crysis) that supports independent game development, then they're a "game dev team".
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 09:47 I'm still not sure why you people insist on calling AR, APB, and Rebarn a game. They're total conversion mods using Renegade's engine. They aren't games in and of themselves without Renegade. They still use Renegade code, Renegade sounds, Renegade assets, etc. They're all Renegade mods. If they switch to another engine (Unity, Unreal, Crysis) that supports independent game development, then they're a "game dev team". They are all standalone from any sort of renegade installation. That is the main factor in calling them a game. They use the W3D engine. When you use one of the engines you mentioned, you are using scripting that utilizes predefined things in the existing engine to extend it. for example: Unrealscript, Unities 3 scripting languages, etc. Do you know how many custom scripts there are in AR, APB, and Reborn? Lots. They work a lot like any scripting would on any of those engines. Most games today are "mods" by that logic. Especially with the advent of the big engines. Didn't you go to school for game design or something?
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 17:47 I'm still not sure why you people insist on calling AR, APB, and Rebarn a game. They're total conversion mods using Renegade's engine. They aren't games in and of themselves without Renegade. They still use Renegade code, Renegade sounds, Renegade assets, etc. They're all Renegade mods. If they switch to another engine (Unity, Unreal, Crysis) that supports independent game development, then they're a "game dev team". It does depend how you look at it to be honest. Anything of Renegade's that is left in AR these days is either animations or place-holders. W3d itself has become a sort of open game development platform since anyone can come and make their own standalone game on it if they really wanted to. It's the same as UDK being a heavily moddable UT3 and Cry-Engine being a heavily moddable Crysis. W3d didn't set out to be an open platform but, in my opinion, it's become this through years of tweaking. The fact that they don't need Renegade installed to run is another reason why they've been classed as games.
Except all the "standalone" games are all C&C based and only do one thing: play C&C mode. They aren't even "standalone", since they're still using Renegade's executable. The mods are still using Renegaede's code to run, and as such will never be a true game by themselves. By definition, you're a total conversion mod developer. You're not developing an independent game. There isn't anything wrong with that, but let's call a spade a spade. When, or if, you eventually make the transition to a non-modding environment, then you'll have a development team instead of a mod team.
Sure APB uses the executable from Renegade. If one had the complete W3D source code, they would edit the code directly and compile it, which would give them a new executable. Would you call that renegade? No, it's W3D. Instead we have people like TT, and their scripts to make changes through some horrifying hackery. Where do you think the executable comes from when you use any other game engine? It is generated for you by the tools supplied by the engine. You just rename it, but underneath it is still Unreal/Unity/whatever. Now if you want to be a real "game developer", stop pussy footing around with 3rd party engines and make your own. You are just an Uneral total conversion developer. You are just converting a pre-existing engine into your game using the provided tools. When I think of a mod I think of installing a game, then modifying the files of the game using some other download. APB itself is a single "download and install" just like any other game.
The difference being that you're licensed to use other engines. W3D is not licensed to you. You're still not developing a game regardless of how it's attempted to be justified. It's still a total conversion. APB is a mod like all other TC mods out there. Calling it a game is not going to change what it fundamentally is: a mod, one that still has a ton of Renegade assets inside of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod_(video_gaming) Quote: Most mods do not progress very far and are abandoned without ever having a public release. Some are very limited and just include some gameplay changes or even a different loading screen, and others are total conversions and can modify content and gameplay extensively. A few mods become very popular and convert themselves into distinct games, with the rights getting bought and turning into an official modification. A group of mod developers may join together to form a mod team. An example is Team Reaction, one of the most prolific mod teams to date, most notably known for QPong and Jailbreak. Mods are made for many first person shooters and Real-Time-Strategies, most notably the series based on Quake, Doom, Chaos, Total Annihilation, Rise of Nations and the Command & Conquer series also have many mods. Among popular mods, none is more well known than the Half-Life multiplayer mod Counter-Strike, which was released shortly after the original game, and upwards of 1 million games per day are hosted on dedicated servers. Counter-Strike is probably the best example of a modification that turns into a retail game. Another signature mod is Team Fortress, which was based on the Quake engine and became a whole series of games, such as Team Fortress Classic, Team Fortress 2, and an unofficial mod-made originally as a fan-made sequel to TFC, Fortress Forever. Mods in general are required to be noncommercial (free) when they include any parts from another mod or the main game, which, by their nature, they always do. Some mods become open source as well.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 12:59 The difference being that you're licensed to use other engines. W3D is not licensed to you. You're still not developing a game regardless of how it's attempted to be justified. It's still a total conversion. APB is a mod like all other TC mods out there. Calling it a game is not going to change what it fundamentally is: a mod, one that still has a ton of Renegade assets inside of it. You are still using assets from those engines. specifically code to run everything. You are still modding assets provided by the engine developers. So until you make everything from scratch I guess you are a total conversion modder with a license to use 3rd party assets. I am not going to define what a game is based on holding a license, or some arbitrary acceptance of 3rd party assets. Also APB has permission to be standalone. I like to think of that as a license to use the W3D engine, and 3rd party assets in the development of a non-commercial game. Also that is a terrible wikipedia article. You can't go to wikipedia for something like the definition of when something is considered a game or mod. It's all opinion.
sounds like it's a total conversion stand-alone renegade mod to me but w/e
not to mention that "game" is just simpler.
W3d isn't just for C&C mode. If you had a lot of time, you could do other things on it. That article is in the process of argument in Project Video Games IIRC. Don't listen to it.
TheBeerinator wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 19:52 Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 09:47 I'm still not sure why you people insist on calling AR, APB, and Rebarn a game. They're total conversion mods using Renegade's engine. They aren't games in and of themselves without Renegade. They still use Renegade code, Renegade sounds, Renegade assets, etc. They're all Renegade mods. If they switch to another engine (Unity, Unreal, Crysis) that supports independent game development, then they're a "game dev team". They are all standalone from any sort of renegade installation. That is the main factor in calling them a game. They use the W3D engine. When you use one of the engines you mentioned, you are using scripting that utilizes predefined things in the existing engine to extend it. for example: Unrealscript, Unities 3 scripting languages, etc. Do you know how many custom scripts there are in AR, APB, and Reborn? Lots. They work a lot like any scripting would on any of those engines. Most games today are "mods" by that logic. Especially with the advent of the big engines. Didn't you go to school for game design or something? You know how much os the gamemechanics is still stock? Lots and lots more. Also, it's not a game since you technically still need a license for the engine.
When I think of a mod, I do not think of installing a complete game from a single installer, then playing. I think of a pre-existing installation being changed with files downloaded. But hey, you can see the games as whatever you want. I don't really see why it would bother anyone to call them games.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sat, 18 August 2012 17:47 I'm still not sure why you people insist on calling AR, APB, and Rebarn a game. They're total conversion mods using Renegade's engine. They aren't games in and of themselves without Renegade. They still use Renegade code, Renegade sounds, Renegade assets, etc. They're all Renegade mods. If they switch to another engine (Unity, Unreal, Crysis) that supports independent game development, then they're a "game dev team". Chipping in to an old topic that's full of drama and stuffz, but... By definition, a 'game' is an environment or task which has a set or series of set objectives or goals. Apocalypse Rising, A Path Beyond, and Rebarn follow these similar rules. They contain a series of maps in which the objective is to destroy the enemy base while protecting your own. The map you created, (Glacier Flaying) can technically be considered a game, since it has the objective to destroy the enemy base while protecting your own. It cannot however be considered stand alone, since it requires executables and code which require a valid working installation of the base game to play. Granted that in today's popular terminology, a game can be considered an independent project developed by paid professionals based off an idea. Most of the time, this idea is not original, (CoD series, for example), but some of them are, or enhance other ideas dramatically. Just because people develop projects in their spare time (Mojang, Relogic, <insert indie development team here>) does not make their project get declassified as a game. If the project has a set of objectives, it is a game. Using the Unreal, Unity, Cryengine argument is not really valid, and saying that the games using those engines don't use the engine's executable is just incorrect. Granted they may be open source, or require licenses to use, it still uses proprietary code developed by the engine creators in order for individual teams to run their content. If it didn't use the code available to the engine, it couldn't use the engine. In either case, ApocRising, APB, and Rebarn can be considered their own games, because they utilise a graphics, physics, and data engine to display the materials and resources that they developed individually. They are not allowed to sell their finished products without using their own open source or licensed engine or without written expressed permission from the current engine owner. They are however considered stand alone, due to not requiring any prerequisite content based around the engine or game that uses the engine. Content previously used for the purchasable game that provides the engine their game is based on comes with the installers for the three games (The exact same can be said for Unity, Unreal, etc. I can imagine the other games developed on those use sound/anim/texture/model assets from the games they were developed from).
Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 16:02 Taz wrote on Tue, 07 August 2012 05:35 I don't care whether AR gets released or not... because tbh, even your latest build is half-assed. Like pretty much everything that comes out of BHP's ass these days. AR has a lot of work left to do. I don't see what they've done to warrant you going after them, though. I could see people justifiably going after APB/Rebarn but AR hasn't built its reputation around pissing off random people and being general shitheads to their fans. I agree with you about AR, but these same things could be said about TSR as well. TSR is a new team that hasn't pissed off or fucked with anyone, but that hasn't halted your attacks on me or the project.
Remember, he is a self admitted shameless asshole though, so anything he says is pretty much meaningless.
Zion wrote on Tue, 21 August 2012 02:57 They are however considered stand alone total conversions. That's what I've been saying the entire time. Wood: If anyone starts a project, that doesn't nullify anything they've done in the past. Anger, resentment, etc... will be projected toward someone or their team if they've got a legacy of pissing people off. Just look at this thread as an example, where this Taz kid starts leaking stuff because someone at "BHP" pissed him off. Should he pick a better target? Yes, but that doesn't nullify my point.
I can understand that, but I was referring to the TSR attacks. The Reborn (the old team) may have pissed many people off but I don't understand attacking the new team for trying to fix the old. I think its fair to say Taz has nothing else better to do with his life then to try to fuck up what others have worked very hard on. He's probably a very lonely and sad person in real life and this is his way of taking his hardships of life, out on others. If anything I think we should just feel sorry for the guy. :Hugs:
Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 21 August 2012 23:01 Zion wrote on Tue, 21 August 2012 02:57 They are however considered stand alone total conversions. That's what I've been saying the entire time. Funny, because I never actually said that... Way to add what you want to a quote and claim it like I said it. ----- That particular half of sentence ("They are however considered stand alone," - Last paragraph) was directed towards your argument and comment claiming that they were not because they used code and assets from the engine they use.
Wallywood wrote on Tue, 21 August 2012 18:30 I can understand that, but I was referring to the TSR attacks. The Reborn (the old team) may have pissed many people off but I don't understand attacking the new team for trying to fix the old. I think its fair to say Taz has nothing else better to do with his life then to try to fuck up what others have worked very hard on. He's probably a very lonely and sad person in real life and this is his way of taking his hardships of life, out on others. If anything I think we should just feel sorry for the guy. :Hugs: We both know you're abrasive, and you're the one leading your team. My team and I took flak for the things I said and did, even if it had nothing to do with the current state of affairs with any project I've worked on. If you want to avoid that, there's always a great quote by Ghandi to follow: You must be the change you want to see in the world. Regarding Taz or his life: I can't judge him, I don't know anything about him other than that he's an average 3D modeler who happened to get mad at Chronojam. He joins the prodigious ranks of others who have been pissed off at that man.
I think we can all agree to to disagree as far as the whole game/mod thing goes. But even though TSR has a new team and a new name; it's still Reborn to pretty much everyone here. There's not much you can do to change that.
One Winged Angel wrote on Wed, 22 August 2012 08:15 But even though TSR has a new team and a new name; it's still Reborn to pretty much everyone here. So THAT'S what you guys were talking about. I had never heard of TSR before this topic.
Ethenal wrote on Wed, 22 August 2012 16:37 One Winged Angel wrote on Wed, 22 August 2012 08:15 But even though TSR has a new team and a new name; it's still Reborn to pretty much everyone here. So THAT'S what you guys were talking about. I had never heard of TSR before this topic. Same.
when is ButtHoleProductions gonna release something worth playing?