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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
"He's not in Clan Wars, therefore he's not better than me: a clan war player."
I've been thinking about this recently. Did it ever once appear in your head that some players who are or were really experienced with the game have not decided to play Clan Wars because they don't have the time for it? Maybe they don't want to spend their time playing a video game competitively if they aren't gaining anything from playing? Some people might not be the competitive type of person. What do you think?
Re: "He's not in Clan Wars, therefore he's not better than me: a clan war player."
no if u dont/didnt play clanwars you cant be considered good because public doesnt teach u SHIT believe it
The clan war players started in public too. They used to be noobs. Overtime, the players who started in '02 built up on their knowledge of the game, they became pros. The same thing can be applied to sports players. Michael Jordan started from being a joe to being a pro. He built up on his skill by practicing and learning the basics.
cant properly learn this game in a game with lots of people fucking around, uneven numbers of players, no tactics involved 95% of the time, barely any communication on the teams, and no overall teamplay other than the occasional stank rush (if that can be called teamplay)
{Os} > cw.cc
ehhh wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 00:08 rgh > cw.cc* yes Public matches aren't REMOTELY as organized or REMOTELY as intense as clanwars. Everybody is on teamspeak, everybody knows exactly what to do, nobody wants to lose. In pub nobody (or almost nobody is on ts), only a handful know what to do, most people play for fun and dont care about losing. You can't expect the same challenge from that.
i prefer to play the game like it was intended instead of 2vs2 with a bunch of server-side mods turned on
server side mods? there are no actual mods to the gameplay, everything is original renegade other than the !ready command and some other similar things that only make it more fair
lol, when i cw'd, it was all orignal, just saying.
CW servers are the closest to real ren as you can get. Yes the game was made for 16 vs 16, but cw players skills make top pub players look like they never played before. Seriously I've played both, there is a huge difference in skill levels.
Hitman wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 01:09 cant properly learn this game in a game with lots of people fucking around, uneven numbers of players, no tactics involved 95% of the time, barely any communication on the teams, and no overall teamplay other than the occasional stank rush (if that can be called teamplay) Fair point. I used to do clan wars in CS and he's got a point. Everything counts. there was formations, choice of weapons, different routes to the maps, who is carrying the bomb and what style of play does the bomnb carrier play? I never got good at CS:S playing public matches, I just got better at public matches. Once the numbers died down I used to be shit cos skilled players would be better with small numbers, but I started playing clan wars with this guy and I got better with small numbers. You noticed things you never used to, foot steps, how to tell how much damage you did to a player that got away, better aiming techniques, better map routes, memorizing camp spots, using flash/smoke/grenades more effeciently etc. After I got good (id say mid-ranged player) I got much better at public matches cos once the numbers went down, I'd play as if I was playing a 5 v 5 match, were as the rest of the team would be running around like headless chickens revealing themselvs on radar and basically letting me pick them off 1 at a time. Same for Renegade, I used to be a decent public player but in small clan wars or 1v1's I was god awful. 15 v 15 or 5 v 5, different numbers, different strats. You can't argue this, most games prove this formula, unless your playing call of dooty: modern borfare, auto aim does the job for you.
pretty sure clanwars got owned by a bunch of {Os} kids in his defense they were in a clan, so it excuses the fact that they beat a heavily-stacked clanwars.cc team if i were him i'd be pretty embarrassed; that would be like st0rm beating Jelly or something
to be fair though, {Os} didn't win that series due to cheats they won because cw.cc failed to listen to Spoony
Quote: Same for Renegade, I used to be a decent public player but in small clan wars or 1v1's I was god awful. 15 v 15 or 5 v 5, different numbers, different strats. You can't argue this, most games prove this formula, unless your playing call of dooty: modern borfare, auto aim does the job for you. auto aim does the job for a lot of Renegade players too. lol
liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 15:45 to be fair though, {Os} didn't win that series due to cheats they won because cw.cc failed to listen to Spoony Who listens to Spoony anyway?
os just had better teamwork, os are not like storm lol...
{Os} had far less teamwork than cw.cc should have had, with cw.cc being the team with far better players and far more organized Renegade experience overall that's the difference here, and that's why i compared st0rm to {Os} and cw.cc to Jelly in terms of teams
hey liquid derfcow got caught with cheats really unexpectedly, that {os}ruben guy too
no one would have ever thought a player from {Os} would cheat i'm very surprised! as for derfcow - did anyone ever say he was remotely intelligent? that's my boy derfie
tell him he was right all along and that i should have never referred to him as derfcow or suggested that he was an idiot
80% of the games I played in public games about 6-7 years ago used to be really intense. Those were the games which got me into ren. Mostly everyone used to know how to play the game. Those were the days of ren.
liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 13:36 tell him he was right all along and that i should have never referred to him as derfcow or suggested that he was an idiot remember this: http://jelly-server.com/forums/index.php?/topic/16859-so-it-happened-again/page_ _p__235978__fromsearch__1#entry235978
can't read that i'm guessing that's when he got banned from st0rm for cheating over there again he was never even a remotely good sniper at Jelly, but then on st0rm all of the mods were watching him and every player knew he was full of shit and in his retarded mind that made him feel great about himself
st0rm and n00bstories at around the same time
the only person he's fooling is honestly himself i've met few people more stupid than derfcow in all my years of Renegade
liquidv2 wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 12:32 pretty sure clanwars got owned by a bunch of {Os} kids in his defense they were in a clan, so it excuses the fact that they beat a heavily-stacked clanwars.cc team if i were him i'd be pretty embarrassed; that would be like st0rm beating Jelly or something ... must of been a pretty good clanwars line up overall
anyways OS was full of cheaters and faggots, they didnt come close to a good cw.cc clan regardless short summary of OS in clanwars: do stupid shit, then cheat to compensate
there are pretty good public players who don't cw. But determining the skill of a player based on him/her participating in clan wars or not is the best approach! All those scientists who didn't help/participate with the Large Hadron Collider aren't good scientists, because well they didn't go help! All the rest just suck! They don't learn shit if they didn't help with the LHC experimentation! Flawless Reasoning!
that's why instead of reasoning with Hitman i just brought up stupid shit instead i've pointed out that obvious fact in the past but he's too narrow-minded to think outside the box he's closed himself in mentally can you bring up a ss of the series where {Os} raped cw.cc Hitman? i'm sure there's one up somewhere i'm not sure where it would be for the record though, cw.cc had a very solid lineup of players there's no reason on earth that {Os} should have won; they simply outplayed you guys ask Spoony; i'm sure he remembers, and he actually confirmed what i said (which was that cw.cc failed to listen to him, and got dominated) aimbot can only bring you so far lol
so they won a community war once, congrats really now compare to how many times cw players beat os players lol "aimbot can only bring you so far lol" lol indeed... it can bring you to the point where OS gets every harv in the beginning of the game, gets off remotes, and has heavy tanks out there before the other team can even get a buggy
i have yet to see a "good" public team actually get more than 20% win percentage in clanwars.cc, usually they ragequit hard after a couple of games and never return
Hitman wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 17:44 i have yet to see a "good" public team actually get more than 20% win percentage in clanwars.cc, usually they ragequit hard after a couple of games and never return Yeah, I did that myself
hitman never tires of losing this particular argument the clanwars team for the match vs OS was comprised of players hitman would pick if you asked him to pick the team, and they lost because they didn't think they needed to listen to what the leader said
congrats os, your the best
lol, they only won 3-2, whilst winning canyon nod and snow, so good!
i wasnt even there appearantly so it doesnt count n try bye ps: os sucks
Hitman wrote on Tue, 17 April 2012 17:14 i wasnt even there appearantly thank god for that; {Os} would have won more than just 3 of the 5 games
no reason nod should have canyon all their own way in that match (i.e. proper settings); it was entirely due to the "pros" not listening to me specifically me saying for 5 minutes THERE ARE TANKS COMING, SOMEONE HELP ME HOLD THE FRONT, me being there with a med and i think the only person besides me who gave a shit was blitzkey on me with a hotwire while the likes of kill were dicking around in the tunnels.
not quite what i would consider a rape like liquid said but alright
did jellybean actually buy the league or was that bs?
I remember during a commwar with jelly, or n00bstories I think, I dunno, either, on complex shitman managed to stop an early APC from crate + nading through the middle with a chemmer haha Sometimes fucking around is good for something.
i remember in a 3v3 on complex lmao, we had nod... i just 'waste' my time throwing timers and remotes in the middle as soon as their harv dropped they roll in a apc through middle needless to say it didnt get very far LOL
i love placing motes all over the front on walls flying at the start of a game
I remember the good ol' days of flame rushes on city.
I didn't even play the OS games but my experience is that is you play 8v8 where 4 players on one team are using *cheat name removed*you might as well not bother. You can't argue that you can out tank them because you can't repair your tank without getting hs... you can't get in their base and hide. I'm sorry but OS were a piece of shit, I'm sure they knew a fair bit but used to beat em 5 out of 5 in 2v2, with thier rgh. In regards to the main argument, you can learn to tank and aim in public to high standards, you can't learn what to do and the perfect time to do it and that makes someone good, nothing else. Aiming comes with time.
The Guy in your Tree wrote on Wed, 18 April 2012 10:07 I didn't even play the OS games get off nunega's account then.
Ruben has C4 emitters that let him see sbh, just saying.
Lazy5686 wrote on Wed, 18 April 2012 15:21 Ruben has C4 emitters that let him see sbh, just saying. i'd bet 10000 euro on OS having ATLEAST 1/3th of their team cheating that game, one way or the other
People who got good in Os overnight after playing pubs in Atomix Moeze Tomo Cyanide(who got caught) +more Moeze was demodded at Atomix, due to him suspected of being cheating, he managed to moan on some other IRC about some people, and within 20 secs had a link to *cheat name removed*that he was posting around. Tomo was his butt buddy so probably did the same
So the OS argument is disproven... what else you guys got... Come at me BRO!
didn't monkey get caught in the rct thingy too? lol.
Man, that hurts every time I botted for Os on that occasion, since one of their players had been dropped. Turns out I botted on the nick of a known cheater, and people afterwards were going like: IS MUDKIPS THAT SAME GUY, MUDKIPS IS A CHEATER. Then I fucking caught gorilla doing a triple snap in the fraps of the match, and to make it worse im not the type to keep my mouth shut I could have had a whole 12,50 euros winnings if I hadn't said anything about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1Y1Il_VfY&t=10m20s
Monkey from Os = MonkeyBoy? I saw a MonkeyBoy nick on TMX yesterday. TMX is full of cheaters anyway. If that server decides to port to 4.0, we will find out who is only good with cheats and those who are naturally good.
YesNoMayb wrote on Thu, 19 April 2012 14:25 Monkey from Os = MonkeyBoy? I saw a MonkeyBoy nick on TMX yesterday. TMX is full of cheaters anyway. If that server decides to port to 4.0, we will find out who is only good with cheats and those who are naturally good. monkey from os is gorilla79
Hitman wrote on Thu, 19 April 2012 08:19 dont forget neon and ricta This. Got good right after Xphaze died and they started Xrev or whatever.. Then Os later on. Monkey cheated long time ago.. back with axeldogg in a 2v2 against me and Image. The fuckers were abusing RGH. Whenever we got point on Islands and started invis hugging the faggots, they couldn't do shit lol.
i am not saying cw.cc players suck. I think they are really good at Renegade. I am just suggesting that there are also good public players who don't warrant too much effort into this game when there is no real motive for them to do so. They just want to have fun nowadays. Yeah sure, you can prove that you are good at 2v2(or the other cw.cc matchups) competitive playing at 10 year old game. Sure, boost your ego and morale. But, that's it. Is that a big enough motive to join cw.cc? No, not really. Most people in the world who are competitive at their workplace are not competitive just because they want to boost their ego. No, they want to climb the hierarchy and get a better wage so they can buy fancy shit. Also, when most of the Renegade players have already left the game for other games, another reason why its not a good way to portray who is the best at a game based on who plays for cw.cc or not.
There are some very good players in public, Excellent aim with tanks and infantry, but they would not be good in cws. Some of the best players I knew from clanwars were not the best at either aim or tanking (they were good enough). They knew what to do and when to do it, that was all it took. I had a 1v1 a few years back with some mouthy git from a public server on field. He killed two of my arty's with a med and i was very surprised... he was more surprised when i fake nuked, snuck a stank out and killed his base (he died to my mines on his rush). I won in a shitty shady way because he didn't understand tactics in 1v1s and thought his tank skills were good enough to win.
Hate fake nuking You can say it is a smart tactic but i think its more of a bitchy move
The whole concept of bitchy moves, or "whoring" or gay moves is nonexistant in cws. Either you are good and smart enough to win, or you are not.
appshot stop being a retard, anyone who can play 2v2's or anything similar against the best players out there, can for sure anal everybody in a public server
Hitman wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 12:41 appshot stop being a retard, anyone who can play 2v2's or anything similar against the best players out there, can for sure anal everybody in a public server did appshot ever say anything remotely close to what you just said here? lmao are you even reading Hitman? i doubt it, because it looks like you're really just making shit up at this point fake beacons should not be disallowed though it does become seriously annoying when a team on a public server has 3 or more players that keep dropping them over and over
a casual player will never beat a competetive player in a competitive enviroment, ie clanwars, but that doesnt mean u wont outplay them in a casual enviroment (pub servers). those games vs OS were just casual for most of the clanwar players which goes a long way in explaining why after killing the ref on canyon 7/10 people bought havocs and went tunnel. Im sure the result would have been different if someone at the time had said that 5 years later those games would be used to judge the skill level of clanwars.
of course not, and at no point has anyone tried to make such a statement why would a player that probably hasn't been exposed to small games be able to beat a player that obsessed over and practiced literally hundreds of small games? it's like putting some guy that wins a lot of bar fights against some UFC fighter in a cage match i quite seriously doubt cw.cc would play casually in any organized match, but your opinion can differ from my own the thing that was being contested was Hitman saying "Players are not good at anything unless they have played clanwars" even simpee said the opposite of you hitman, but i have a feeling you'll say the same exact shit again in the future as you have so many times in the past long live Renegade
OS beating clanwars players is sad + pathetic kinda proves cw.cc is overrated btw hitman is just a proud nerd who wears track suits to school and makes bad youtube videos filled with euro electropop. i wouldn't be too concerned about his views.
ELiT3FLyR wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 18:49 a casual player will never beat a competetive player in a competitive enviroment, ie clanwars, but that doesnt mean u wont outplay them in a casual enviroment (pub servers). those games vs OS were just casual for most of the clanwar players which goes a long way in explaining why after killing the ref on canyon 7/10 people bought havocs and went tunnel. Im sure the result would have been different if someone at the time had said that 5 years later those games would be used to judge the skill level of clanwars. Shut it
ELiT3FLyR wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 23:49 a casual player will never beat a competetive player in a competitive enviroment, ie clanwars, but that doesnt mean u wont outplay them in a casual enviroment (pub servers). those games vs OS were just casual for most of the clanwar players which goes a long way in explaining why after killing the ref on canyon 7/10 people bought havocs and went tunnel. Im sure the result would have been different if someone at the time had said that 5 years later those games would be used to judge the skill level of clanwars. I am surprised so many people remember these games, until people started talking about them I didn't even know I played. I remember trying to glitch out of the map so I could snipe the air... and actually trying for a few minutes with a pic too.
Jellybe4n wrote on Tue, 24 April 2012 02:58 ELiT3FLyR wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 18:49 a casual player will never beat a competetive player in a competitive enviroment, ie clanwars, but that doesnt mean u wont outplay them in a casual enviroment (pub servers). those games vs OS were just casual for most of the clanwar players which goes a long way in explaining why after killing the ref on canyon 7/10 people bought havocs and went tunnel. Im sure the result would have been different if someone at the time had said that 5 years later those games would be used to judge the skill level of clanwars. Shut it I approve this message.
Rocko wrote on Mon, 23 April 2012 18:06 OS beating clanwars players is sad + pathetic kinda proves cw.cc is overrated btw hitman is just a proud nerd who wears track suits to school and makes bad youtube videos filled with euro electropop. i wouldn't be too concerned about his views. mad bro?
the only public player that is any good is t0rn rest is shit discuss & get mad
{Os} - 3 Cw.cc Pro Team - 2
lol liquid is trying to make a non-existent point
DUCKMIPS thinks that clanwars players aren't actually serious in organized games
Hitman wrote on Tue, 24 April 2012 21:44 the only public player that is any good is t0rn rest is shit discuss & get mad This^ Now fucking discuss it and get angry as fuck.
wouldnt be the first time our best players in a comm war went fucking around instead of getting a med or whatever, thing is we usually won anyways ;/ and i still didnt play in that game, so it still doesnt count LoLooOLolOLolOLOLolOolOL
only matches i actually remember vs OS were the one's where they were cheating so obviously it was ridiculous lmao i remember me and wrs and i think .. wiggles? in a 3v3 on field ricta's mrls was best ever, wrs frapsed him with velocity multiple times lol imo a game vs OS is a joke lol, they are terrible and i dont know why cw.cc lost, must of had half the team fuckin around
Yeah, it's funny when you die before the missiles get near you. lol
liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 00:36 DUCKMIPS thinks that clanwars players aren't actually serious in organized games 1. You are making a non-existent point 2. You twist people's words Not serious against Os. That does not mean not serious in general.
Major-Payne wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 17:10 liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 00:36 DUCKMIPS thinks that clanwars players aren't actually serious in organized games 1. You are making a non-existent point 2. You twist people's words Not serious against Os. That does not mean not serious in general. you think i'm serious regarding this topic when all i'm actually doing is poking fun at hitman
liquidv2 wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 09:54 Major-Payne wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 17:10 liquidv2 wrote on Wed, 25 April 2012 00:36 DUCKMIPS thinks that clanwars players aren't actually serious in organized games 1. You are making a non-existent point 2. You twist people's words Not serious against Os. That does not mean not serious in general. you think i'm serious regarding this topic when all i'm actually doing is poking fun at hitman and now you're suddenly joking LOL best comeback
based on what simpee said i can't possibly continue saying what i'm saying ...unless i don't actually mean it hmmmm stop defending Hitman from me
do you feel in some way affiliated with {Os} or cw.cc? why do you care so much lol this doesn't concern you; i'm talking to my dear friend HTMN
liquidv2 wrote on Thu, 26 April 2012 11:48 do you feel in some way affiliated with {Os} or cw.cc? why do you care so much lol this doesn't concern you; i'm talking to my dear friend HTMN both
it seems hitman isn't the only one that cares i apologize if i upset you in some way, since you made multiple posts about it i could have carried on joking with hitman if it wasn't for you meddling dutchmen!
also:
lots of fun appearantly i dont really give a fluck im just saying what i think sayonara suckers
liquid go read and think about what my last post was hinting at. Hitman, nice ad hominem attack.
thx