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C&C: Renegade --> Dying since 2003™, resurrected in 2024!
Ever since 4.0 came out, ive wanted to create some C&C mode maps. I decided i would create a small infantry map, somewhat like C&C_Sand or gobi, though one that has more then two direct entrances into the bases. This map has 4 ways into the bases, and as well two spots for snipers to perch from, overlooking each base. The bases are only seperated by a thin mountain, and a tunnel which you can use to quickly get there. Then there is two large paths around the outside of the bases, and an underground tunnel which goes directly into each base. Here is some pictures so far, things may still change or be altered, but for the most part the shape will stay the same. The name was also random, i couldn't think of something that hasen't already been taken. I want to still add tiberium silos to each base, but at the moment i can't find a completed one for renx. Unfortunately i cannot lightmap this either, as i did the work and renx and i don't know how that process works.
Re: C&C_The_Canyon (Wip infantry map)
Nice stuff! And the lightmapping process does involve having a copy of 3DSMax in order to render a lightmap texture.
Finally something that doesn't look completely ass. You should try blending between different textures on the cliff sides, however.
I think you're off to a good beginning, but you will need to push this farther to achieve what it's capable of being. I'd set the tiling for the rocky texture to be a lot larger, so that it accentuates the detail of the mountainside instead of obscuring it. I would also roughen up the side of the cliffs manually, without modifiers, so that you can get a more interesting effect. Right now it looks like you gave me a big chunk of clay and I made smooth mountains by dragging my hands through it. You should look into creating your own set of trees. If you can't, or can't spend the time, I give you permission to extract my trees from Fjords and use them if you'd like to. I'd like to see more foliage on this level. It's not dense enough, so it will turn into a bland death match without some way to avoid the massive amount of snipers that will appear and dominate the level. I would also edit the terrain on the ground, give it hills and depressions. Break it up. Use the roads that you have on the logical exits of the map and add them to other areas - make it feel like you're in an environment instead of a Halo 2 map. Use the Tiberium to create more interesting effects. Box off infantry from certain areas. Make them pay a penalty to access a premium sniping zone by having to cross over a Tiberium field to do it. This needs more cover. Add rubble, garrison-able civilian structures, rocks, etc. Go farther with this. I know you're capable of it.
Quote: I'd set the tiling for the rocky texture to be a lot larger, so that it accentuates the detail of the mountainside instead of obscuring it. The main reason i kept it all tiled the same uvw, is so the textures blend seamlessly, instead of just ending suddenly which gives it a repetative straight edge look. Quote: I would also roughen up the side of the cliffs manually, without modifiers, so that you can get a more interesting effect. I guess thats true, i will roughen it up more. Quote: You should look into creating your own set of trees. I did make these, but using the renegade textures for the bark and pine leaf, there is 5 unique trees, i just wanted to keep the polygon counts lower for those. They range from 350-550 polygons each. Quote: If you can't, or can't spend the time, I give you permission to extract my trees from Fjords and use them if you'd like to. How many polygons are the ones from fjords? I would like to use them, and thanks for the offer, but at the moment i think i may stick with more basic ones because i didn't want to overly clutter the map. Quote: I'd like to see more foliage on this level. It's not dense enough. I was thinking of adding more plants, but i still have to create better ones and more variety, still looking for better textures. Quote: I would also edit the terrain on the ground, give it hills and depressions. I think ill do that then, as well as adding in two more dirt roads along the upper paths. Quote: Use the Tiberium to create more interesting effects. Box off infantry from certain areas. Make them pay a penalty to access a premium sniping zone by having to cross over a Tiberium field to do it. This needs more cover. Add rubble, garrison-able civilian structures, rocks, etc. I guess i will untexture it and re-work it alot more. I will add more locations for the tiberium, the main reason i have 2 sqaures of it, is because i was going to plop the tiberium silos on those spots. Thanks for the comments and suggestions, i will try to improve it more, but i do want the polygon count in the lower ranges, it's already at 28,845.
You should consider using the Rp2 script that does not allow sniper rifle users to fire their weapon unless they're standing still. As ACK said, this map will probably just devolve into a n00bjet fight pretty fast. Also, you really shouldn't worry about polygons that much on a ren map. As long as you do VIS properly, that is.
Canadacdn wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 21:15 You should consider using the Rp2 script that forces sniper rifle users to stand still in order to fire their weapon. Lol i don't know about that, i think i would rather have people able to snipe where ever they want, because i myself like to snipe, and don't like limitations on it in C&C mode.
unless your Bugatti hunting or something Put in a shitty ass daspo object pile/latter that goes all the way up to the top of the hills so players can get up there and cap the game away. Jk of course, more seriously sign onto AIM so we can discuss Rp2 and stuffs.
You can set each texture to its own UV channel so that it blends seamlessly on different scales. Look at the cliffs in Fjords - the rock is tiled much larger than the grass or ice is. UV 1 and UV 2 will let you accomplish the same thing. The trees for Fjords are around 150 to 200 polygons each. There's 500 of them in the level, with 1,500 view-oriented bushes. If you're worried about polygon count, don't. Fjords was around 350,000 polygons when completed. The electrical substation in front of the Ore Refinery takes up a good chunk of that count, weighing in around 25,000 polygons. Intelligent texture usage (scaled to fit the object, such as 2048s being used rarely, 1024s being used sparingly, 256s being used often, and 512s being used less often) will keep frame rates up. Adding a visibility system will also help. You can easily run relatively high-poly levels in Renegade with little frame rate impact. Your material usage and texture usage being used intelligently, with an emphasis on re-using textures as modular pieces will help keep frames up.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:23 You can set each texture to its own UV channel so that it blends seamlessly on different scales. Look at the cliffs in Fjords - the rock is tiled much larger than the grass or ice is. UV 1 and UV 2 will let you accomplish the same thing. Would you mind explaining uv channels in more detail, didn't realize they worked that way, how do you make just one of the textures sit under its own channel?
There's 99 UV channels that 3DS Max (and by association, Renegade) understands. Each channel holds UV data, which defines how the textures appear in local space on the object. All modeling packages should have the ability to set different textures to display under different UV channels. The main rock texture for example was set to UV channel 2. The ground textures were all set to UV channel 1. When I have the whole level grouped together, I can set the proper tiling by adding two UVW Mapping modifiers to adjust the scale of the textures. There's a UV channel option in the subobject rollout of the UVW Mapping modifier. When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:29 There's 99 UV channels that 3DS Max (and by association, Renegade) understands. Each channel holds UV data, which defines how the textures appear in local space on the object. All modeling packages should have the ability to set different textures to display under different UV channels. The main rock texture for example was set to UV channel 2. The ground textures were all set to UV channel 1. When I have the whole level grouped together, I can set the proper tiling by adding two UVW Mapping modifiers to adjust the scale of the textures. There's a UV channel option in the subobject rollout of the UVW Mapping modifier. When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are. Ah sorry, just found the spinner, can't believe it, I've probably seen that over 1000 times and never managed to put that together with the UV channels in the UVW Map settings... This kind of makes the scale Mapper worthless doesn't it, as you could set the scale with another UVW Map on a different channel for each texture?
Quote: When you set your UV channel, reflect that change in the RenX/Max 8 channels in your material editor. If you're working with RenX/Max 8, you'll find them when you press M and look at the vertex material. It's below the field that you enter any arguments for vertex mapping into. It should say "UV 1" by default. Change the spinner to 2, 3, 4, whatever your channels are. The only thing i don't understand is how i assign this UV 2 channel to my second pass material, i understand i can add another uvw , but it apparently isen't changing the actual uvw on either of the materials i have selected. Nevermind i understand now, seems easy and i guess i will add this effect to my cliffs, thanks for that
If you're saying that you can't see the changed UV layout in the Unwrap window, you'd need to change the UV channel to 2 there as well. Sometimes you have to hit the reset button in the subobject parameters in order to see the UVs in the editor. Regarding the scale mapper, it's a matter of convenience. If you realize that you're going to need to change any scaling later on, using a scale mapper will make this process faster if you know how to use it.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Sun, 02 October 2011 19:48 If you're saying that you can't see the changed UV layout in the Unwrap window, you'd need to change the UV channel to 2 there as well. Sometimes you have to hit the reset button in the subobject parameters in order to see the UVs in the editor. Regarding the scale mapper, it's a matter of convenience. If you realize that you're going to need to change any scaling later on, using a scale mapper will make this process faster if you know how to use it. Yeah I see your point with the fast to use point. As for part one I figured it all out, but wouldn't have if you wouldn't have pointed out that's how it worked lol. So thanks for the help, I'm already using this knowledge to make my water look less tied (beings the only way I knew how to do it previously was with the scale map, and that prevented you from using things like linear offset, so it had serious drawbacks).
Hence why I prefer UDK. It's all procedural, node-based, so each "mapper" you assign to your shaders can be plugged into other ones to combine different effects or remove them partially. For example, the idea behind "Scale" can be done with "TexCoord" IIRC, with that plugged into a Linear Interpolate and some other effects, you can easily make alpha blended materials with a minimum of effort.
nice map, looks epic. should be on most servers.
It looks okay, even good, but in no universe would it be considered epic.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 19:41 It looks okay, even good, but in no universe would it be considered epic. ok ,lol, is not epic then, but is good
Well by the time it's done it will be better then just good, i hope. I have been reworking the terrain entirely, roughening it up alot more, and adding in some background mountains.
That's good, you definitely have the skills to do so.
Looking very nice, however: I think your tunnel layout is a bit boring (straight). Add a few bends, and perhaps a few junctions, to spice things up a bit. I mean, tunnels are vital on any infantry map. The name is kinda stupid and sounds like a rip off of C&C_Canyon. try to come up with something more original. As for silos for renx, I always liked these ones:
Quote: I think your tunnel layout is a bit boring (straight). Add a few bends, and perhaps a few junctions, to spice things up a bit. I mean, tunnels are vital on any infantry map Point taken, i guess ill rework the tunnels a bit more, i just made it straight because i didn't want it to go any further then it already is going, but i will add a few other sections to it. Quote: The name is kinda stupid and sounds like a rip off of C&C_Canyon. try to come up with something more original. I know lol because it was a rip of that maps name to be honest. I didn't really come up with a proper name for it yet, but maybe in time as things shape up more i will come up with something better Quote: As for silos for renx, I always liked these ones: Thanks alot ill give these ones a try, looks like they are the open ones which i don't really like as much, but they will still do the trick I think ill have room to place 2 silos for each team, but they will be close together so an ion or nuke could kill both at once no problem
Blazea58 wrote on Mon, 03 October 2011 18:56 Thanks alot ill give these ones a try, looks like they are the open ones which i don't really like as much, but they will still do the trick I think they are pretty cool how the top flies off lol. Some of the destroyable buildings (like on mutation redux etc) are buggy and allow infantry to get into stupid palces, but these silos don't. A few maps use these, like Cairo, and they work just as well.
Good to know , i guess i will be using these ones anyways. Had an idea of some liquid tiberium pools nearby as one of the sources they are collecting it from.
Nice, has a simple yet functional layout. A few things: 1: As pointed out, change up the cliff poly's a bit- they definitely look too smooth to feel like rocks. I usually just manually move vertexes around for this, it seems to work pretty well. 2: Spice up the tunnels- add things like barrels, crates, and those sorts of things. Maybe random little rooms off to the side with several entry points? Could contain a money crate or something simple, yet worth fighting over. 3: Maybe add a few small buildings? Not sniper towers, just small little derelict structures with a couple entry points. Also, while it has a nice design, it definitely could use some atmosphere. Lighting helps with this a lot. Hope to see this go somewhere
Well i've been trying to get the terrain improved, and have almost got something better, but still a bit more editing to do before i detach again and start texturing. I will still work some hills into the bases, (after i get the silos in) so they still are pretty bland. I still have to redo all the plants, and make some more different pine trees, since there will be many of them, might just use those ones from fjords instead.
That looks much better. What I meant by "roughing up" the terrain isn't just making it prickly-looking. I meant you should also create terrain features. Make cliffs that look like cliffs, plateaus on the top of the mountains with a jagged cliff edge, etc. There's a lot you can do with that terrain. Maybe you should consider making a jagged path up the mountain to have a vantage point.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 14:58 That looks much better. What I meant by "roughing up" the terrain isn't just making it prickly-looking. I meant you should also create terrain features. Make cliffs that look like cliffs, plateaus on the top of the mountains with a jagged cliff edge, etc. There's a lot you can do with that terrain. Maybe you should consider making a jagged path up the mountain to have a vantage point. Well i didn't originally plan this to be full of terrain features, but there is still plenty of time for me to edit it further. I guess a path or two from each base leading up the ridge a bit higher would help for a vantage point, but otherwise i don't really want too many different paths. I'll see what i can do though. Added a new path on the other side, and one vantage point in each base. Should be ready to start texturing again pretty soon.
That 2nd last screenshot points out a potential issue... tunnel beacons. Might pay to relocate the Bar / HON or do as I said before, put more bends in the tunnels so they go around the buildings rather than underneath them.
crazfulla wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 22:29 That 2nd last screenshot points out a potential issue... tunnel beacons. Might pay to relocate the Bar / HON or do as I said before, put more bends in the tunnels so they go around the buildings rather than underneath them. Guess i didn't actually think of the tunnel nuking when i started, so i guess ill make them go a bit further from the structures and have some bends in it. And that suddenly gave me the idea to try playing fjords alone, and noticed you can nuke almost every building from the tunnels. Not that i will keep mine where they are, but many stock maps as well as fan maps seem to play out fine, despite being able to nuke from a tunnel.
this looks almost as good as carnage club xtreme, the greatest map ever invented in renegade
crazfulla wrote on Tue, 04 October 2011 19:29 That 2nd last screenshot points out a potential issue... tunnel beacons. Might pay to relocate the Bar / HON or do as I said before, put more bends in the tunnels so they go around the buildings rather than underneath them. Cant you just make scriptzones that prevent the tunnels from beacons being planted in there ? (if thats possible offcourse)
Spacer wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 09:18 Cant you just make scriptzones that prevent the tunnels from beacons being planted in there ? (if thats possible offcourse) Probably, but then n00bs couldn't waste their money, thus making them easier to prawn.
sexy looking map my friend if you wanted to balance it just remove havocs and saks here's a few things you could name it i'm assuming it's up in the mountains somewhere C&C_Mountain_Canyon (HAH) or C&C_Forest_Canyon (DOUBLE HAH) C&C_Chasm C&C_Fissure C&C_Opening (or Mountain / Forest _Opening) C&C_Schism C&C_Rift
Rocko wrote on Wed, 05 October 2011 03:29 this looks almost as good as carnage club xtreme, the greatest map ever invented in renegade amen to that brother when the Disturbed soundtrack hits the room i feel one with the earth
That looks pretty awesome, I look foward to seeing it completed. Oh and Chasm was an epic name suggestion.
that other club map has linkin park's The End nothing in renegade can top that man
Yea ill probably go with C&C_Chasm, unless it has been taken before.
Well i have been working extensivly on the tunnel networks to make sure there is room, and to avoid problems with tunnel beacons. There will be a way to tunnel nuke but only at the very exit of the tunnels, which won't cause any problems. I just have to start retexturing the terrain, changing a few textures around, and adding a few more props.
I don't like the textures you're using at the moment. Also the tunnel seems a bit...long with the corridors being short.
iRANian wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 18:58 I don't like the textures you're using at the moment. Also the tunnel seems a bit...long with the corridors being short. I have been trying to get the texture theme better, but i guess i can always rework it a bit more. As for the tunnels, yes they are long because they have to go around the barracks and Hand of Nod, otherwise i can't really make them any shorter. I made it angle itself inwards to avoid people sniping from one end to the other, i can't really do much about completly changing the shape yet again lol.
Nice looking map. But try not to make too many different pathways. As small as the map is, the more paths there are the more you're dividing up the players. In a game with 20 players on a map with 4 ways into each base, you cause players to end up either by themselves or in small groups of 2 or 3... and that results in dull gunplay. Not only that, but you also ensure that bases will go undefended more often since players would be off in one part of the map where they aren't able to return to base in time if it becomes under attack.
Quote: try not to make too many different pathways. As small as the map is, the more paths there are the more you're dividing up the players. Well i tried to make only a tiny bit more space down there, only to add some realism. The tiberium silo building room is a short distance to walk from the main tunnel entrance, so i don't think it will cause any problems in walking distances. Quote: In a game with 20 players on a map with 4 ways into each base, you cause players to end up either by themselves or in small groups of 2 or 3... and that results in dull gunplay. I don't know about dull gameplay, to me a map that has very limited ways in, causes it to be repetative. (people mining the 1-2 entrances and everyone ending up being snipers) There hasen't been that much more room added, it is still the same distance between the bases. Quote: you also ensure that bases will go undefended more often since players would be off in one part of the map where they aren't able to return to base in time if it becomes under attack. The fact that it has 4 ways into the base, only makes defending it easier. If someone nukes the barracks while your underground you can easily get back to the base on time to defend it, though as in any map, if everyone leaves the base it's their own damn fault lol.
I like the idea you're shooting for with the tunnels, and agree that multiple entry ways is nicer than just one (if only because there's already maps with 1-2 entryways). But the textures could be reworked a tad, as they seem to lack a general theme.
I think you should redesign them entirely. Why would GDI and Nod decide to build "tunnels" that lead to each other's base? What tactical advantage does that offer them? Quick access to each other's base? I've always hated that concept. It really makes no sense. I really don't like the design of your "tunnels" (I quote it because that word gets thrown around too much) because they lack inspiration. They're yet another perfectly built underground installation that, somehow, GDI and Nod decided to build together so they could attack one another. This whole Area 51 in the woods thing is getting dull. Field, Canyon, Under, all of the Renegade levels suffer from it. Who has time to build that shit? Why would they? I think you'd be better off developing a natural cave system that can be exploited in a very unexpected way. You could make caves that have little paths you can run up to inside of the hillsides. Think of Afganistan - there's hills with holes in them everywhere. Underground rivers would be lovely and would add some depth to this. Underground waterfalls, too. Even reflecting pools with caustics on the ceiling. Something that would break up the monotony and give a realistic way of taking cover. Your level has so much potential. Push it farther than the limited designs of Renegade.
They don't have to be made by GDI/Nod to connect the bases. They could be civilian tunnels used for Tiberium research that GDI and Nod are using just because they happen to be fighting in the area.
Who conducts Tiberium research inside of a mountain that has no secure access? There needs to be some kind of logic to this. I'm not seeing it. I never saw it in Renegade either, so I'm not faulting him specifically. "Tiberium research" would happen in a building, not in some underground lair that just happens to conveniently connect enemy bases together. This is well-established in C&C.
Don't get me wrong, i do agree with you on the fact that it doesn't seem very logical, but the fact is almost every single map in renegade does this. This is a small map, there isn't a whole lot i can do because even a cave being connected to both bases seems illogical also. I clearly see the point you are trying to make, but i don't feel like ripping this map apart 100 times just to please one person who judges his own work as the only thing acceptable. I know you have changed and got much better at modeling, sure you even went to school for it, but you are making it seem like there is something entirely wrong with it's concept altogether. Why on earth did Gdi and Nod create tunnels that connect to each base? I see no logic here, but it makes the map play out better with them. A canyon with no exits or entry ways, yet both teams are fighting for this same tiberium field only a few hundred feet away? How would one said team even create a base without the other team knowing they were already there to begin with, and construct tunnels that actually lead to the other base o.O And how exactly did Gdi or Nod build the tunnel all the while making it connect to the other teams base only a few feet away? I don't consider this realistic at all what so ever, but i think it's a really fun map, thats what counts to me. I have to keep the tunnels connecting to each other for gameplay reasons, i don't want one team to be able to just get up into the sniper perch without the other team being able to have any access to it. Then there is the lower tunnel, which would have been some sort of Tiberium storage which Nod developed. When Gdi showed up they started tunneling into the same network to gain access to the storage facility and start destroying their structures to take over that area. In my mind it seems logical as any other "small" map, but to you it's never good enough lol. I don't think i want to start building an entire cave network at this point in time, if anything ill remove the tunnels altogether o.O and give people just an open mountain map to fight on without any "unrealistic tunnels" connecting to each base, because that's never done in any of your maps either o.O
Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 21:14 Who conducts Tiberium research inside of a mountain that has no secure access? There needs to be some kind of logic to this. I'm not seeing it. I never saw it in Renegade either, so I'm not faulting him specifically. "Tiberium research" would happen in a building, not in some underground lair that just happens to conveniently connect enemy bases together. This is well-established in C&C. Nod being the terrorist organization they are I think that it'd make more sense to do your research near a natural source then publicly in a building you had to build with your own tax dollars which thus tells everyone something is up.... Plus the fighting in the caves helped change things up, and there were blast doors at the top of the dam on level 2.
Only 1 thing to say; The Forgotten
Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 18:43 words I think you're being a little bit too picky here. Sure, it's not realistic, but who cares? It's Renegade, barely anything is realistic anyway. And that's fine. That being said, it would be sorta cool if the tunnels had cave elements (rocks protruding outward, things like that), to give the impression that they were built around a cave system or somesuch.
Maps don't have to have a whole story behind them...
Blazea58 wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 01:20 Don't get me wrong, i do agree with you on the fact that it doesn't seem very logical, but the fact is almost every single map in renegade does this. This is a small map, there isn't a whole lot i can do because even a cave being connected to both bases seems illogical also. I clearly see the point you are trying to make, but i don't feel like ripping this map apart 100 times just to please one person who judges his own work as the only thing acceptable. I know you have changed and got much better at modeling, sure you even went to school for it, but you are making it seem like there is something entirely wrong with it's concept altogether. There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack. Quote: Why on earth did Gdi and Nod create tunnels that connect to each base? I see no logic here, but it makes the map play out better with them. A canyon with no exits or entry ways, yet both teams are fighting for this same tiberium field only a few hundred feet away? How would one said team even create a base without the other team knowing they were already there to begin with, and construct tunnels that actually lead to the other base o.O And how exactly did Gdi or Nod build the tunnel all the while making it connect to the other teams base only a few feet away? I don't consider this realistic at all what so ever, but i think it's a really fun map, thats what counts to me. Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are? Quote: I have to keep the tunnels connecting to each other for gameplay reasons, i don't want one team to be able to just get up into the sniper perch without the other team being able to have any access to it. Then there is the lower tunnel, which would have been some sort of Tiberium storage which Nod developed. When Gdi showed up they started tunneling into the same network to gain access to the storage facility and start destroying their structures to take over that area. In my mind it seems logical as any other "small" map, but to you it's never good enough lol. I don't think i want to start building an entire cave network at this point in time, if anything ill remove the tunnels altogether o.O and give people just an open mountain map to fight on without any "unrealistic tunnels" connecting to each base, because that's never done in any of your maps either o.O You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes. I already gave you ideas on how to do it. If you don't feel that my ideas are worth attempting, then sure; that's fine - I understand completely. It's your work. Don't look at it like I'm denigrating your work. Look at it as an opportunity to expand your horizons and see this design in a different way.
Quote: There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack. All C&C games follow this theme, they are always fighting eachother in an environment that doesn't make sense. You forgot that even Fjords doesn't make sense then. Why wouldn't Gdi block off that cave entrance that leads into their sewer? Why on earth would they leave that unchecked? Quote: Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are? I am fully aware that those were originally developed by westwood, but the fact is you could have just as easily taken out the tunnels or done something "Logical" with them. Quote: You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes. A cave that leads to either base to me seems just as stupid as a tunnel that leads to both bases. It's pretty much going to seem unrealistic no matter what if that said cave leads to both bases, even if there is a bit of detail showing that it was broken into like on fjords. If were talking about realism, then C&C isn't the right game. We have teams that can build structures instantly in less then a minute because they have a mobile construction yard. So building a tunnel that leads into a tiberium facility makes just as much sense, because they could have built it in a day for all we know o.O If this was Battlefield or some other game that actually simulates a real life situation, i would probably be doing things differently.
before this turns into ACK being a snobby faggot over videogames and Blazea defending himself, here's a few things the tunnels could use: 1: The floor textures are rather bland, and feel like something out of a parking garage or something. I feel like it could be a bit dirtier and have a more "cobbled together" feel, considering that it's meant to have been quickly made. Alternatively, it could be more metallic looking- like a high-end installation. 2: Those pillars feel... I dunno, tacked on. They lack style, and the textures don't much fit. I can't think of how they can be improved, but they stand out to me. 3: In general, it lacks a... theme, an ambiance. It's just metal and concrete. It doesn't give off the feel of being much of anything, y'know? Well, the tiberium stuff helps a lot, but other than that, the textures themselves feel a little uninspired. Fix those things, and it'll look fantastic. The design itself, though, is really nice.
Blazea58 wrote on Wed, 12 October 2011 15:05 Quote: There is something wrong with the concept that two opposing forces would cooperate to build an underground complex that would allow convenient access to their bases. Or, barring that, had this underground complex existed before - I really doubt that both teams would build directly on top of it so that they're both open to attack. All C&C games follow this theme, they are always fighting eachother in an environment that doesn't make sense. You forgot that even Fjords doesn't make sense then. Why wouldn't Gdi block off that cave entrance that leads into their sewer? Why on earth would they leave that unchecked? Quote: Those were originally developed by Westwood's artists. I only finished them off. You should know that since you've been around long enough. What point would there be to removing the essence of what made them what they are? I am fully aware that those were originally developed by westwood, but the fact is you could have just as easily taken out the tunnels or done something "Logical" with them. Quote: You could easily make an underground cave formation that had an intricate design, without making it "unbalanced" for gameplay purposes. A cave that leads to either base to me seems just as stupid as a tunnel that leads to both bases. It's pretty much going to seem unrealistic no matter what if that said cave leads to both bases, even if there is a bit of detail showing that it was broken into like on fjords. If were talking about realism, then C&C isn't the right game. We have teams that can build structures instantly in less then a minute because they have a mobile construction yard. So building a tunnel that leads into a tiberium facility makes just as much sense, because they could have built it in a day for all we know o.O If this was Battlefield or some other game that actually simulates a real life situation, i would probably be doing things differently. Just because the factions aren't "realistic" does not mean that the terrain must also follow the same logic. Underground complexes don't suddenly sprout up out of nowhere. Caves are not stupid at all. I live in Florida, I'm used to the idea that there's a massive network of caves beneath my feet which hold our water supply. Real life or not, no game is "realistic" and making terrain uninspired to match the mediocrity it's based off of does not help you grow as an artist. If you don't want my help, it's fine to say that you don't need it. The time I'm spending trying to type this to you could be spent eating dinner with my family right now. Like I said, I think most of this level you're building is great. I completely disagree on the way you've implemented these "tunnels" and I feel that you could do a lot more with them that would be visually interesting. Speaking of Fjords: Nod had demolished that entrance. Hence why it's damaged-looking. There's nothing convenient about it either. If you leave from the entrance that says "RESTRICTED AREA - USE OF DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED" you'll find Guard Towers and the AGT toasting you.
Quote: If you don't want my help, it's fine to say that you don't need it. I really don't mind the criticism, i guess i just didn't share the same views as you. I never really cared much about the theme of the maps in renegade as much as i did about the actual gameplay presented. Quote: Like I said, I think most of this level you're building is great. I completely disagree on the way you've implemented these "tunnels" and I feel that you could do a lot more with them that would be visually interesting. Well i just don't know how else i can make tunnels that are functional and also serve the sole purpose of brining people a very short distance without having to worry about creating a cave system. I just don't see it in this map, it was designed to be a small map, which has very short distances between bases, and "tunnels" which connect them together, i can't expect you to like the idea of these ones either, but i wanted something with that quick access to each base, without the need to use "caves". Can't expect you to like this at all but what the hell i have lived on playing standard renegade maps for years, so i am very used to that overall theme. I just don't know what else is going to be better, i didn't want any buildings that you can go into, or cave networks and complex design underneath.
Well, what you COULD do is have a few rocks protruding from the sides of the tunnel or whatever, as well as various blocked up doors that would seemingly lead to other areas. Basically, make it look like an old mining shaft that was turned into a tiberium storage facility or something. That's of course assuming you're willing to do more modeling work. Design wise though, I really like how they're set up.
I think your problem is that you're not visualizing what I'm thinking of. Imagine your "tunnels" made rounder. The profiles become circular instead of square. Now imagine them if they've been subdivided. You have a mass of polygons to work with. Think of it as a natural hole in the side of the mountain that opens up into a very tall cave, and you're standing on the edge of a cliff. You walk in, look over the edge, and see sparking pools of water. There's holes in the roof of this cave. Sun shafts gracefully point through, lighting up the environment. You walk down this cliff path until you reach the bottom of the cave. There's an assortment of stalagmites and stalactites growing from all around you. The sound of dripping water fills the air. You see some machinery left behind by Nod as they were attempting to excavate this cave, for unknown purposes. Some sections of it are plastered over in a quick job of concrete foundation laying and cheap-looking walls. There's a mountable gun turret sitting here. You think someone was protecting this place. You wonder why GDI sent you in, and now you realize they're researching Tiberium here before they prepare to build a full sized Bio Lab. You see another cliff edge leading up to a higher point that's a good distance from you. You decide to walk up there. What do you find?
I like that idea, but now i am running into typical problems with Uvw mapping. I would like to be able to have the textures seamlessly tiled, but i don't really know how to Uv Map everything so flawlessly like you did in fjords. How can i make it so all my tiles line up better? mapping by box screws things up, planer doesn't work , xyz doesn't work, do i have to unwrap it or something? Before i moved all the segments around there was only two or three places that the texture didn't tile seamlessly, but now it is happening all over the place. And george good suggestions, i haven't got around to doing anything with those tunnels yet again, but i may end up changing it if i can figure out how to uv map properly lol.
You will have to stitch your UV islands together using Unwrap UVW. Turn on "Show vertex connections" in the edit window and weld them together. Use the relax modifier to help keep it from becoming stretched and ugly.
Aircraftkiller wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 10:16 I think your problem is that you're not visualizing what I'm thinking of. I don't think anyone here would. Strange things go on in your head that only a physologist could begin to comprehend. Aircraftkiller wrote on Tue, 11 October 2011 20:14 There needs to be some kind of logic to this. No there doesn't. A bit ironic coming from you, considering a number of your own maps contain tunnels that link the bases.
A lot of them being really old, having been made from 2002-2005. Long before I attended art college and graduated. Long before I made something like Fjords. It would be silly to hold me to standards of work I made when I was just turning 20. And regardless of what I've done in the past or am doing now, it doesn't change my point or invalidate it. Instead of personally attacking me, might I recommend that you participate in the thread by contributing something to it? Perhaps by helping the author?
Aircraftkiller wrote on Fri, 14 October 2011 09:17 Instead of personally attacking me, might I recommend that you participate in the thread by contributing something to it? Perhaps by helping the author? That wasn't a personal attack. It was a valid point. Indeed the game is old, and thats why it doesn't matter if they are illogical. What are you Mr Spock all of a sudden? If I could offer any advice to OP it would be to keep it simple. Don't buy into your every piece of advice because in a game that is almost 10 years old, certainly less is more. That said, I do appreciate you trying to help others develop their map makign skills, the more people that can make playable maps the better. Live long and prosper.
What happened to this map? Is it done or?
zunnie wrote on Fri, 26 October 2012 13:03 What happened to this map? Is it done or? I couldn't texture the Uvw properly on the terrain, and I stopped working on it. I would be happy to send the map in a zip with the textures if you would like to consider doing something with it.
Wow, please do that I dunno if i can make the map as nice as you can but i will give it a go Thanks alot
zunnie wrote on Sat, 27 October 2012 19:40 Wow, please do that I dunno if i can make the map as nice as you can but i will give it a go Thanks alot Well the only things missing is retexturing the terrain and tile the Uvw properly on it so its more seamless, and adding the tiberium silos for each team. Other then that , it was ready to be exported, and have some LE go into it. I think it would be a nice idea to give each team 2-3 Turrets/guard towers in strategic places where it would be safe for the team to repair them back to health. I'll see what i can do about getting it into a zip with the textures for you tonight, and hopefully will be able to upload it to you in a personal message.
I am on irc.ultraaow.com in #mpf if you have irc and want to discuss. There you can send it to me as well via dcc Is it gmax or 3ds8 btw?
zunnie wrote on Sat, 27 October 2012 20:25 I am on irc.ultraaow.com in #mpf if you have irc and want to discuss. There you can send it to me as well via dcc Is it gmax or 3ds8 btw? I don't use Irc unfortunately, Do you use Aim? The map is all done in gmax, hope that's not an inconvenience.
I only have MSN, oovoo and IRC :/ Or teamspeak 3, you can upload there too if you like (you dont have to talk) just connect ts.ultraaow.com
Well I would say the map is pretty close to being done other then level edit and adding in the buildings/ Tiberium silos. Textures still need a lot of reworking, but for the most part It's complete. I'll probably try fixing a few more small things then ill have it ready to send off to you Zunnie.
Very nice, looks awesome
O.k Zunnie, I have sent the map in a Rar with all the textures included to your email account. Just needs the real buildings/ Tib silo's, and some other misc things like defences. I've added a picture to better explain where I was thinking some things should go, and while I'm at it ill upload it here so this forum topic has been finished.
Very nice i got it Will have a look at it right away Great stuff ^^
http://zunnie.multiplayerforums.com/renegade/thecanyon/C&C_TheCanyon_b3.zip Thats beta2 of the map, i just fixed a few minor things like vehicle blockers at the tunnel entrances and i renamed some textures so they would load up with the 4.0 ttfs downloader. (We are currently looking into that missing texture issue with the downloader fyi) The map is currently in rotation on our NewMaps 4.0 server for testing. All seems to run smooth, we had 20ish people on it earlier, map is awesome Great design work mate
Some ingame screenshots of the beta2 candidate: Toggle Spoiler
Fucking gay 10img and 30 second post limit :/ fu lol Here some more: Toggle Spoiler
renalpha wrote on Sun, 11 November 2012 12:22 very nice map. looks good. It's also fun to play.
Thanks alot for finishing it off for me zunnie, you did an excellent job, it's exactly how I imagined it Surprised how soon you had it finished, thought it would take longer.
I've used the editor for years lol, know it fairly well so i get shit done quite fast Glad you like it Did you play it yet? We had 20+ in on the map earlier, was quite fun. Although i might add that maybe three guntowers is a bit overkill. But on the other hand.. maybe it's good like this, different, harder... I really like the map and the ppl that were in the server earlier liked it too
joined the server yesterday. was 2nd on 1 game i played